rpfc

So pick 9 then?

So...."This is the list guys! This is all we will have. Except you Dan; you're cut. This is all we have! Neville? You're cut. Those standing here are all we will have!! I can't wait to cut you next year, Lynden..." I don't really agree with the sentiment, Territory. We are getting a top 10 pick next year, and maybe a good player in FA/trade. We don't have a good list. There is more pain and change to come.

We all know and acknowledge the importance of stoppages. One of the main players in a stoppage is a ruckman. And Jamar averaged the same amount of kicks in 2010 to 2013, 4 more handballs in 2010, nearly 1 mark more in 2010, half a goal more in 2010, 1.3 tackles less in 2010, and 4 HOs less in 2010. He didn't do much more around the ground at all. An extra goal every two games and 4 handballs a game from his one extra mark. He got AA for his work with Moloney that was so publicised, and because of the dearth of good ruckmen. I have had a look at the past few years and the MFC is rarely out of the top 8 when it comes to HOs, but we are always the outlier when looking at clearances. The AFL average (minus the MFC) in clearances has been 37.6, 37.9, 38.1, and 35.1 in the past 4 years. The clearance average of the two teams above and two teams below us (in the HOs) is 39, 39.8, 38.8, and 36.2 in those years. The clearance average of the MFC has been 32.5, 33.9, 36.6, and 34.2 in those years. So the teams around us in hitouts have won 6.5, 5.9, 2.2, and 2 more clearances a game than us in those years. We should be doing better with the HOs we have been getting but we have not had the midfield to maximise the advantage the way that other clubs have.

Where are they on our list? This debate started because Jamar had been named as 1st ruck by posters. Jamar/Spencer/Gawn The above are our options. With Clark mooted for a FF/2nd ruck by Roos. I have argued that the importance of a ruckman at stoppages is still important and that the vast majority of ruckmen do not do much 'around the ground' and that it does not create enough of a point of difference to remove Jamar.

Whoa. What? Where are you getting this from?

NZ International rookie. Volleyball player.

Next to AAMI Stadium. Go to Richmond Station, and have look around the area. It's an impressive sporting precinct. Or you can park at Federation Square for a fee. Get your Melways out. Or your phone.

Exactly. We all want the ruckmen to be more involved but if we are talking about a few kicks and handballs, it is almost irrelevant. The ruckman's job first and foremost is in the job title. Everything else is peripheral.

Well, no, but the system is two years old. Hawthorn could have 'met' that ridiculous Franklin wage but that wouldn't have been the end of it - he could have gone to Sydney through the draft if he wanted to. Hawthorn wouldn't have got Pick 19 though. I said this before - if I was Hawthorn I would have put that threat out and said we will trade him. They didn't, they thought a whinge would be better and that's that. And, you are right, there should be less doubt about it; it should be like the NBA. But I really do wonder if the Players Assoc. know what they are getting themselves into as they push for US style 'freedoms' for players. That way leads to players traded without their consent, non-guaranteed contracts, and clubs re-signing players against the players will (which is what we would be talking about here if the AFL had an NBA like system).

And another option - he stays on the salary that the other club offers. Or he rejects the other clubs offer and stays on the terms we would like. I should make a Process Model... Nah.

[scoff] Of course it is far more important to have a midfield. [scoff] I am telling you that there remains a direct correlation between the best rucks and the best clearance teams - as in they are exactly the same. Rucking is important. You can 'invert the argument' all you like but you would be rejecting the fact that HOs beget clearances.

Ok, you arrogantly handsome bastard - I will do it: Clark, Dawes, Jones, Trengove, Grimes, Vince, Garland, and Watts are the only players I can see being paid more than Frawley even if he was paid a lower than market salary. So I think we should be ok. He will be a RFA.

Deeko answered with what I had already said - but that's fine...

I think this is a rah-rah thread about getting better quickly with a self-fulfilling ideal of telling the players they are the extent of the good players we will get as we won't get anymore because they are good enough. Maybe.

lol What? Now we are more confused...

Now if his salary is the 11th highest at the club or greater - he is unrestricted and he can do what he likes... There is a curveball. (Listening to Land madly making a list of players possibly paid more...)

We could trade for players. What about FA? I know what you are saying but we are going to turn the list over again in 11 months; telling the list that 'this is it' becomes hollow when you move another 8 on.

The stats that I showed illustrate a direct correlation between teams that win the most HOs and those that win the most Clearances. It directly refutes your point about HOs being less important, and it also backed up my point that with our team being the outlier has more to do with what midfield is at the feet of our ruckmen. You are more than welcome to analyse it differently, but I wouldn't get in the habit of willfully misreading things just to back up a point - it leads to journalism...

He did that. In 2005, Sydney had more captains than Star Trek.

I don't know where you are looking but the AFL website stats site provided by Champion Data has Melbourne 6th in HO, behind WCE, Syd, NM, Carl and WB. Incidentally, all of those teams average 39+ clearances a game. The only 5 teams in the league to average above 39 clearances a game. And we average 32.5. We can take advantage of those HOs when our midfield has the capability to take advantage. http://www.afl.com.au/stats

He is also 19/20. Let him play. We have alternatives. I can't believe I am saying this but we have some good, solid leaders. They can't get through yoga without getting injured, but they are good solid leaders and we added a couple more in the off-season.

Maybe I picked the wrong poster... A ruckman's job is in the centre square. Don't get fooled by pundits telling you that they 'need to be more involved.' Jeff White's best years were when he could run at the ball and dominate the centre, his possessions as a link man across the half back/wing were met with indifference by me. Jamar absolutely needs to be more damaging when not rucking, but ruckmen live and die by what they do in the middle and he is the best we have got for 2014.

Ok, I will clear up the confusion with Restricted FA (bookmark this page in your browser of choice): A club extends an 'offer sheet' of sorts to a player from another club. If that player would like to go to that club he can sign it. If his club would like to keep him, they may say "we will meet that contract." At this point, the player can sign with his club or go through the ND or the PSD. In the NBA - a restricted FA must remain with his club if his club meets the offer sheet, but that is not the case in the AFL. Frawley can agree to go to a team and we can 'meet his contract' and he can still go through the drafts. Please understand this - it might save you some headaches later on (hopefully not heartaches...).

Love it pants. Someone tweet that to the [censored]. Tos ser is censored? C'mon man!

If he is really keen to leave he can simply leave the old fashioned way - through the PSD.