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Would I now? So I critique Goodwin for not making the finals and partially blame his coaching, and you think that means that I would give the credit to someone else if we did make the finals? That doesn't compute. I don't have a 'Roos > Goodwin' Agenda; objective reality does. This team hasn't done anything, didn't do anything under Roos, and hasn't done anything yet. I am impressed that Goodwin, Mahoney and co. can convince the best young defender in the game to come to the club with that in mind. If we had played against Port, we would have won, if we played against GWS I would have bet on us, and if we played at the G in the Prelim against the Tigers that would have been something. If you have a problem with specific criticisms of Goodwin and the way we play, I would be more than happy to defend those. I even started a thread so you wouldn't have to travel around to find them. It's on the footy board.

I didn't mean to confuse you - if we finish in the bottom 4, the draft pick we gave up will be worth much more than what we are currently projecting. If I thought we were going to finish in the bottom 4, I would not have intimated there are no excuses for not competing for the flag next year. Therefore, that trade being 'measured' is dependent on how we go next year because top draft picks are more valuable than draft picks that are further down the draft order. Does that follow?

I guess that is me? I was about to give my obligatory 'Teenage Lottery Draft of the AFL' line so I say 'well done, Josh!' It will only blow up in our faces if we finish in the bottom 4... As for Goodwin; he has done well to convince Lever to come to a team that has done nothing. Kudos also to Viney, Mahoney, et al. 'Goody' now has an excellent collection of talent at his disposal in my opinion for 2018 and beyond. We have star defenders in Hibberd, Jetta, and Lever. Star mids in Oliver and Petracca, with excellent help from Viney and Jones. And a forward line with Hogan, McDonald and Garlett can create enough chances to kick enough goals. We are in 'hashtag noexcuses' territory.

I hate Gavin. We all have a Gavin in our lives, don't we?

Mahoney can trade back into the draft. The bloke knows what he is doing. Yes I am sure it is a team effort but give the guy a break!

Or just 'liar'...

Lever has already publicly said he is willing to 'go into the draft' if the Crows stonewall. I have never heard a player be so frank about going into the draft - so he is obviously aware that the Cows are the ones playing funny buggers.

When Lever said - 'I will go into the draft' - we gained leverage. When we found out about how the Crows acted when meeting with Mahoney and Viney we gained leverage, with him being disinvited from the B+F we gained leverage (perception in press only - makes it harder for them to stonewall), and when he polled outside the top 10 we gained leverage. ND10 and ND45 or a pick swap in the second round. We acted in good faith with offering a fair trade and their petulance should not be rewarded.

The irony of the plethora of comparisons to Pendlebury? I can't think of one player drafted since, that actually effing plays like him...

Forgot about that. That club is creating fallout for itself. It's comforting.

I have a strong inkling that we have been 'recruiting' Lever for three years ever since his draft. IIRC, the Richmond doctor's assessment of Trengove's foot is the reason we didn't get Lever in the first place...

Pick 10 and change, and defend the kid to the hilt with these mercenary charges.

When Lever says he is 'off to the draft' if no deal eventuates...

Watts doesn't have the physicality to play that role. He can swing down there off a wing and embarrass Taylor Adams going both ways but if Watts was playing defence all day I would isolate him and play his man one-on-one and that would be that.

To be perfectly honest, Lever doesn't excite me, but I am a forward and have issues rating defenders... One thing that does excite me as a coach is when you get to take a burden off a player and release them and that is what I see Lever doing for Hibberd. If we can get Hibberd 30m further up the ground when he is gathering the footy and have to be come across and provide help all the time - he will be transcendant. Might take some attention of Hunt too...

I was about to say "I will pay that myself!" And then I thought, 'nah, I can't afford that.' I need to buy a new skillet...

Went forward a few times. He is value if healthy and firing. But getting into that backline is about to get real hard...

At this point the only player not compared to Pendlebury as a junior was Pendlebury...

Sits with whom?

I mentioned Gardiner in the post. Plays for the Lions and is a solid tall in the backline. I maintain that I would prefer the last 4 years of Tyson, plus Salem's elite skills and upside, plus Hunt's run and explosive pace to The Excelllent Josh Kelly and The serviceable Darcy Gardiner. But continue the handwringing if it makes you feel better talking to your mates who support other clubs and only look at the surface of trades and player movements.

If we flip Salem for something better - it improves that trade... And if you said to me that I either get Tyson, Salem, and Hunt or Kelly and Gardiner - I would have taken the former. Now that may change as the careers of these 5 players move and change but Tyson was required in Roos' first year and we didn't make that deal in a vacuum; we had a terrible list and if we needed talent.

$800k for a star CHB (who could probably swing just as well as TMac) is very good. The CBA has exploded and if that is where we can keep our best players at - we would be happy. Those worried about Petracca suddenly asking for that much - he was going to get that much anyway. If we were paying these guys Dusty Money - we might have an issue, but we aren't.

Any info on why it went so poorly? Powerpoint pres have too much white space? Joffa was loitering out the front was a cigarette and a bevvy?