furious d

Simple numbers don't tell the story. You have to look at the quality in each area as well. For example you question the need to draft JKH because we have an ageing Byrnes along with Jetta and Tapscott to play as small forwards. There is a very real possibility that none of those 3 will be on our list next year. As for Cross and Vince, do you seriously believe our midfield didn't need to be addressed? Without Cross and Vince we have 4 mids who have played more than 50 games, one of them will return to the back line, one can't kick and one hasn't fired a shot for two years. As for the small and medium backs, Dunn is the absolute standout as far as on field results go out of that group, enough said. The next draft is stacked with talls at the pointy end and there's only so many holes you can fill in one draft.

Ha. I was travelling all last season and only managed to see us play on tv twice and one was the win against the doggies. Listened to plenty more games on the net though so I have an inkling what you poor souls went through. I think it's highly unlikely we'll make the finals next year, but not impossible. Stranger things have happened in the world of sport. For us to get there though we'll need a lot of luck and a lot of things to go right. At a minimum we'd need: -Our best players on the ground for the majority of the season, something we haven't managed for a long time. Injuries are always going to happen but for us to be any hope we need fewer of them, and those that do happen, to happen mostly to fringe players. -Cross to earn himself another year, Vince to at least maintain his output from the crows and Jones to keep up his form. We don't have a lot of experience in the guts and we need these 3 guys to show the way, Jones can't do it on his own. -At least two, preferably three, of Watts, Trengove, Tyson, Toumpas and Viney to show they are on track to be true A grade footballers. That doesn't mean glimpses of potential, it means solid consistent output that if they can maintain they will be top end players. A "breakout season" if you like. -A good start. We need it all to come together quickly like it did for Port last year. A few early wins would give us some confidence and looking at he draw we'd need to be 3-2 after round 5 to be a realistic chance. -If point 2 and 3 come to fruition our midfield should be at least competitive. We need our backs and forwards to be what we think they could be with an actual midfield between them. They look good on paper, we need them to look good on the field. Pretty simple really we need to score a lot more and be scored against a lot less. I heard KB and either Denham or Smith say they thought 4-6 wins would be a pass mark for Roos this year. I think that's fair enough given where we're coming from even though I have to admit I'd be a bit disappointed with 4 wins, 6-8 is achievable imo.

Thanks for the link PF.Agree 100%, something stinks here. I don't care about the negotiations or who was involved but I do care about the result. If Hird has been allowed to take a year off with pay and at all helped to go and study for a year it's an absolute travesty. That is barely a punishment at all. If the AFL have allowed this Demetriou and Fitzpatrick must resign, especially after Demetriou's comments yesterday. If Essendon are doing this behind the leagues back and without permission they must be punished. I'm not sure who to believe, Hird's lawyer claims the arrangement they reached with the AFL doesn't cover whether he can be paid or not. I think I agree with Kennett on this, an independent investigation is needed but I can't see Demetriou allowing it to to happen.

It's about time Acres got some love around here, I'd be stoked if we pick him up. For me it's between Freeman and Acres as preferred choice at pick 9, they both have something our midfield lacks and they're both strongly built and ready to go. I posted this a while ago in the pick 9 thread but nobody picked up on it so I'll put it here. Acres dislocated a shoulder 2 minutes into the first game of the champs and tried to play on but gave up after 2 substandard games. The injury has pushed him out of top 10 calculations for a lot of people but he has all the weapons a modern footballer needs. He stunk up the combine competing just 4 weeks after shoulder surgery but the WAFL colts boys do a pre season mini combine at Edith Cowan University and here are his results: Pre shoulder surgery combine results from WA testing at ECU Cowan University 20m sprint 2.94 sec Agility 8.28 sec Standing vertical 69 cm Running vertical jump ® 80cm Running vertical jump (l) 92cm Repeat sprint 21.51 sec Beep test 15.2 No 3 km was tested 188cm 83.7 kg In the combine these results would have placed him 20m sprint- Equal 9th Agility- 8th Standing vertical- 1cm outside top 10 Running vertical jump ®- Equal 10th Running vertical jump (l)- 2nd Repeat sprint- 1st Beep test- Equal 5th No 3 km was tested 188cm 83.7kg Sourced from Kawalsky from Bigfooty Virtually top 10 in every category, 188cm, 84kg, plays inside and out and has above average disposal. He has height and speed and our midfield needs both, add his endurance and evasiveness and he's a perfect fit for us. If his shoulder is ok I'd take him at 9 for sure. And the Morton comparisons are laughable.

Oh Jesus, here we go again. Relax, we've got this, right?

I'm a fan master, even before the video. He's slid down the order after dislocating his shoulder early in the champs and stinking it up a bit. 190cm, quick, plays inside and out, get's plenty of it and uses it very well. Prototype modern mid I reckon and I'd take him ahead of Sheed. The worry is his shoulder, did it b4 the champs and tried to nurse it through bit it popped again a few minutes into the first game I believe. Found this little nugget regarding Acres on bigfooty, cheers to Kawalsky for sharing the info. Pre shoulder surgery combine results from WA testing at ECU Cowan University 20m sprint 2.94 sec Agility 8.28 sec Standing vertical 69 cm Running vertical jump ® 80cm Running vertical jump (l) 92cm Repeat sprint 21.51 sec Beep test 15.2 No 3 km was tested 188cm 83.7 kg Result from ECU AFL combine. 4 weeks post surgery/rehab. 20m sprint 3.05 sec Agility test. Didn't test Standing jump : ? running vertical jump ®: ? Running vertical jump (l) :? Repeat sprint 25.16 sec Beep test 13.1 3 km 11.15 190.2 cm Result from TeamWA facebook page At the Combine, the results he achieved before injury would have had him equal 9th in the 20m sprint, 8th in the agility test, 1cm outside the top 10 in standing vertical jump, equal 10th on the right leg and 2nd on the left leg (equal 3rd overall) in the running vertical jump, a clear winner in the repeat sprints (by over 2 seconds) and equal 5th in the beep test. Pretty impressive results pre injury, not so good after surgery but that's to be expected. The lack of love around here for this bloke surprises me a bit. I agree on the WC bit too, they know one of Acres and Sheed will be there. Just for the record I'm not sold on Acres, I like Freeman and Lennon at our pick too, maybe even Kolodjashnij. Really finding it hard to split them atm.

I was answering a question about Crouch.

According to Knightmare he didn't get less than 30 touches all year in TAC and had a few 40+. He's also reputed to be pretty lazy on the track and not to have much endurance. Scary to think what sort of numbers he'll be getting if he can develop a tank.

FB: Garland Frawley Terlich HB: Grimes McDonald Toumpas C: Watts Tyson Vince HF: Hogan Dawes Trengove FF: Howe Clark Blease Foll: Jamar N Jones Viney Int: Michie M Jones Fitzpatrick Sub: Dunn Emg: Evans McKenzie Gawn I'll stick fat with the big russian for now but I'd be showing him vids of his AA year and telling him if he can't find something near that form he'll be overtaken very soon. He needs to get back to competing for the ball after the tap, in 2010 he was a beast at the stoppages and was winning plenty of clearances himself. Needs to start taking marks around the ground again as well. Terlich and Clisby are fighting for the same spot imo and I'll put Terlich marginally ahead right now but there's not much in it. Same goes for Blease, Kent and Byrnes in a fp. Blease has kicked 5 in a game and looks the most dangerous around goals. Kent is probably ahead in terms of output but imo Blease has the higher ceiling if Roos can iron out the flaws in his game. Not keen to have Mitch as second ruck until he's got a few games under his belt and some confidence back in his body, hence Fitzy makes the bench. It makes us a bit top heavy but all of our talls except Dawes are pretty mobile. If we sign Cross, M Jones comes out, Tyson goes to the bench and Cross starts in the centre.

Videos are up on the AFL site http://www.afl.com.au/2013-draft/draftees/midfielders/

I'm having the same problem I have whenever i go into a bakery. So many tasty treats on the shelf, do I get something with a cream filling, go for a fruit tart or satisfy my chocolate addiction, decisions, decisions. A week ago I would've been keen on a clearance machine like Crouch but with Tyson, Michie and to a lesser extent Vince coming on board, the maturing of Viney and talk Roos might put Trenners back in the coalface, we can now probably afford to look for a more rounded player. I still want someone that can win contested ball but they need to have other attributes as well. Big bodies around the stoppages seems to be the way the game is headed and Tyson is our only extractor over 185cm. Sheed is 187 and Acres is 190, both can play inside and out and both are high production mids with good foot skills that can hit the scoreboard. Acres was playing injured during the champs and was a bit underwhelming while Sheed tore it up. Personally I prefer Acres, 3cm taller and 4 kg heavier and quicker to boot. Some explosive pace from the contest would be nice and Freeman definitely fits the bill here, my concern with him is he can have very quiet games and isn't a consistent ball winner. Taylor and Hartung are both quick off the mark but we already have 7 guys on our list 180cm or under, that's nearly 20% of our list, not sure we need any more just now. The other option is to go for someone who's more outside, Kolodjashnij, Bontempelli, Lennon and Salem would be the main contenders. Bontempelli is interesting at 194cm according to the AFL site, playing Watts in the midfield mightn't leave room for a Bontempelli. Lennon definitely has some weapons, is a good size and is versatile. So I think I'd like Acres, no Freeman, or maybe Lennon, no Acres, definitely Acres. Oh bugger it, serve that guy while I make up my mind.

Where did GWS get pick 10? Is this a remnant of the compo picks? Assuming they have it I'd trade pick 3 for Adams and pick 10. I'd also do pick 1 for S Selwood and pick 7 and maybe a swap of 3rd round picks if WC are playing hardball. Unlike some here I rate Scott Selwood pretty highly. We get Adams and Selwood, and draft something like Crouch and Sheed with picks 7 and 10. That's a fair midfield injection that would yield pretty instant results but also set us up for the future.

Left at halftime to go buy a train ticket from Xi'an to Nanjing, found a little street market and decided to give the second half a miss despite thinking we could still make a game of it. Turned out to have been a very good decision, might have smashed my computer if I listened to that.

19 inside 50's, I think he was watching the game being played in Geelongs forward line, like the rest of our forwards.

Fair enough, I just think we were massively outclassed. Our glaring weaknesses are our 3rd rate disposal and our inability to win a centre clearance.

You've been claiming the effort wasn't there, I disagree.

No they didn't Stuie. -50 inside 50's for a start. But 100+ tackles and competitive in the contested ball indicate we were trying but outclassed. Just because you have no idea how to read them doesn't make them irrelevant.

Especially when they don't back up your arguments.

20-12

18 inside 50's for 10 scores, no point bagging the forwards. They've done well considering the lack of supply.

Scores from turnovers Geel 8.8 Melb 0.1. Fix that up and we're 3 points down

I couldn't say with any certainty that he won't be. That's the point, it's too early to make definitive calls just yet imo. As RobbieF said it doesn't always work out the way you think. If Fitz can't crack the 22 next year because everyone else is fit and firing I'm confident he'll tear it up in the VFL like he has this year. I can't see his value going down if that's the case and we'd get a good trade for him next year. I'm with BH though, I don't think he's competing for a spot with the other blokes, the second ruck resting forward is his for the taking, just needs to improve his ruck work.

For years we've had no competition for spots in our 22, as soon as we get some we want to trade blokes out. I'd be giving it at least another year before before I even considered it.

We still haven't received our last beginning of first round PP. The AFL bankrolled franchise took that off us with their massive salary cap advantage. The compo for that is Hogan who will be worth the wait hopefully. People conveniently forget this when saying we wasted our picks. Sure we picked badly a few times but the only PP we have received that hasn't been stolen by AFL largesse was I think Blease. 7 crappy years and the only thing extra we have to show for it atm is an early second round pick. We haven't been swimming in PP's and anyone who suggests we have is full of [censored] which accounts for 99% of the footy media.

Can anyone show me where AD is quoted saying we won't get a vote? No, because it never happened.