furious d

I was a bit of a draft nazi earlier in the season when people tried to make definitive statements about where a kid is rated, and Jackson is the prime example of why. Knightmare on BF for example didn't have him in the first round an edit or two ago in his mock and now he has us picking him up at 4. Will be very interested to see how he goes in the GF, another BOG and he might be long gone by pick 13.

I actually feel sorry for the umpires. Kevin Bartlett ond the other fools on the rules of the game commitee are 100% to blame. I travel a bit and have taught hundreds of foreigners to appreciate our game over the years. 20 years ago it was a simple task. There were only a handful of rules and they were simple to interpret. Now when I try to explain the game it is ridiculously complex. The rules around tackling and incorrect disposal have me completely stumped. They may as well toss a coin to decide whose free it is.

It just says other clubs are interested, not that we have any intention to trade him.

TAC Cup and the U18 championships are 2 different competitions. A draft expert like yourself should know this

Disagree completely. For a start they weren't values they were behaviours. That means they were judged on their actions, not on abstracts like values. There is a large difference imo. These behaviours were decided by the group after a lot of discussion of what they wanted out of their leaders. As Neeld said, if maturity and experience were a criteria it would rule out 90% of the list. What he didn't say was the 10% remaining would be the same guys who were rejected by the process, the same guys who led us to 186. It seems this is Neelds attempt to break the soft leadership culture that has thrived at Melbourne as long as I can remember. Hollywood Boulevarde needed to be demolished and Neeld got out the wrecking ball as soon as he arrived. I just hope he can build something out of the ruins.

Most apt username ever.

You are a [censored] end of the highest order. I'm guessing you're accusing him of being me, after accusing me of being a Viney. Mods can you please assure this FOOL that I have NO aliases. You have been shown time and time again that your claims that no one rates Viney top 5 are a nonsense but you play the man not the ball in reply, the classic tactic of a man with a weak argument. [censored]

Some rate him top 5, some don't. That would be the exact definition of "no consensus."

The articles author obviously doesn't read demonland. If he did he would know that the consensus on Jack Viney is that he's not worth a top 5 pick. Or maybe, as I've said all along, this consensus only exists in the head of certain posters around here

Perhaps you'd prefer those 25000 members not to renew. Would you rather 14000 members who all show up and stare at an empty ground because the club has folded? Buying a membership doesnt obligate you to turn up every week, if it did I wouldn't buy one.

He's lost a lot of strength since tearing his pec, can't match it body on body with the gorillas anymore. I've heard him say he can't bench anywhere near as much weight since the injury, if he can't get that strength back hell never be a gorilla keeper. Must admit I'm concerned.

Welcome aboard AD. Spent a year in America as an exchange student when I was a young fella. My PE teacher let me take our class for 3 weeks and teach Aussie Rules. The class loved it and we finished with a game that I umpired. I've always wondered if any of them kept following our great game.

You did get into it though didn't you. If you know for a fact Viney is not top 5 it stands to reason that you know for a fact who is top 5. Enlighten us Mr Draft Expert. Toumpas will miss 10 weeks if you include finals, I guess he's not top 5 either. By all means give us your opinion but don't dress it up as fact, makes you look stupid.

You know for a fact Viney isn't worth a top 5 pick? I know for a fact that you're full of [censored].

Do these idiot journo's even know the rules? Boak is on the verge of signing a 3 year deal with Geelong according to this fool Porter. Hey Ashley, he has to get there first ya knobend.

My whole point has been that's it's still too early to tell. Heppell for example was considered a late first round pick at this stage of his draft year, he had a brilliant second half of the TAC season and starred during the finals series. His stocks rose considerably during September and he was talked up as a possible top 5. I expect that with such an even group in the mix from pick 2-10 some will rise and some will slide before draft time. The remaining games, finals and the draft camp will all have an effect on where these kids are rated going into the draft. To answer your question about Viney, I have only seen him play 4 times but I've liked what I've seen. Last year I thought Viney was similar to Toby Greene, only athletically superior in pretty much every way and a bit harder at it again. Greene has been a star for GWS this year and I believe Jack will have that sort of instant impact, which is something our midfield needs desperately. I agree with Ben, his kicking is good but lacks penetration, not a big problem for an inside mid and he has good acceleration away from the contest. Knightmare mentioned that he had never seen any testing for Jack so his speed and endurance results will be interesting. Whether I'd pass on him or not is not a decision I see any need to make now. The draft isn't until November. On the other players you mention, I really like Toumpas and his season being over helps our chances of getting him imo. He's a good size , quick and most importantly is an excellent kick. Whitfield will be gone by our pick but I'd grab him in an instant if he was available, can't see it happening. Grundy is the interesting one, goal kicking, high possession ruckmen don't grow on trees. If the recruiting department think he could hold down a spot in the forward line as well as ruck I'd grab him. Mayes is my smokey for our early picks, all class but will take some time to be ready to run in the midfield, can play half forward in the meantime but we have 36 half forwards on the list already. Wines I have slightly behind Viney, but that's just me. Oliver was better than an 8kg lighter and underdone Viney in the champs but imo Jack is the better player. Stringer doesn't interest me at all at this stage. Too big a risk coming off the broken leg and I think he'll slide unless he finishes the year very strongly. Could be there at 13 and I'd consider him then. I'm pretty confident we can get Jack in the second round, but being a Melbourne supporter I'm naturally nervous and worry that things might change. Jack's injury was a godsend for us and ensured his underwhelming champs, giving blokes like Wines a chance to shine. I hope we limit Jack's exposure to the VFL from here because the only thing that will put him back into top 3 calculations is doing well against men, especially in finals. All I'm saying is keep an open mind until October, that's when the draft talk gets serious.

Your only mention of Heppell in the Dyson Heppell thread was a question to Jose. "Looks like an attacking medium defender/flanker. How's he do man on man stopping an opponent?" You asked that on Sep 6 so you hadn't made your mind up early in the TAC finals he was dominating. So you jumped on board late when he had put his name into top 10 calculations, congratulations. All of us armchair recruiting experts get a couple right every now and again, it's only the dee-luded among us who who convince themselves that this makes them some kind of an expert.

I don't think Cloke will come to Melbourne, because he signed with GWS last year. I have no evidence, but it makes sense. Cloke Snr and Grubby cooked this up to avoid another $cummy situation. GWS deny any interest, while DC frustrates the Pies at the negotiation table leaking interest from other clubs to the press. The media will take any bone they're thrown, they're easily manipulated so they lap it up and run with it all year, then GWS swoop late and the story is Collingwood couldn't get the deal done and GWS trumped all comers at the last second. Reputation a bit bruised but intact. I reckon Eddie might have got a sniff of it, called off negotiations and started signing everyone else up. That's why he's not in full whiny biaatch mode about the shitty compensation for free agents, he knows he's got $cumbag like compo in the offing.

The horse trading during trade week will cost a lot more than Cloke. I don't think the salary cap is an issue for us, we can afford the dollars and may even need to spend to make the minimum payments. Trading will cost us picks or players and they are far more valuable than a heap of unused cap space

I'm no expert either Hazy, but I don't think he can be rated yet. It's still a long way till draft day and there doesn't appear to be any standouts behind Whitfield. There is no consensus among the supposed experts. Mayes, O'Rourke, Grundy, Toumpas and Viney have all been mentioned as possible #2 picks and all but Grundy have been predicted by others to be late top 10 or worse. It seems to be a pretty even bunch behind Whitfield and there's still plenty of footy to be played, including finals, then draft camp. I think VFL finals will have a big say in Jack's perceived value at the draft. If he tears it up against men in the VFL finals series then Gold Coast may see him as a worthy second pick and so might the bigfooty consensus. In the end though, any kids real value at the draft is only known when his name is called out.

Last page you claimed Viney was ranked 10th in the draft. I asked you "by who?" You gave some long winded answer with quotes from bigfooty. Would have saved a lot of time if you had just said me.

No, I was pointing out that you're not a recruiter. Viney "ranked" 8-12 is your opinion, and your opinion, like mine, is meaningless.

AFL recruiters will be disappointed to know they've been wasting their time all these years. All they need to do is read bigfooty, one or two mocks should suffice. Then they'll have the unquestioned knowledge of dee-luded. You have no clue

So you read a couple of mock drafts on bigfooty, you'll have to do better than that dee-luded. Maybe you should have looked a bit closer at Knightmare, who forms 50% of this consensus that has Jack rated at 10. In his power rankings, where he rates the kids purely on ability, he has Daniher at 1, O'Meara at 2, Whitfield at 3 and Viney at 4. The bigfooty phantom draft trial run has started today. Other draft watchers have joined with the 2 you mention and so far they've come up with: 1 GWS Whitfield 2 GC Mayes 3 MEL Viney 4 MEL Grundy 5 WB Wines 6 WB O'Rourke 7 PA Toumpas 8 BL Garlett My point is that the only pick that everyone agrees on right now is Whitfield at 1, after that it's all conjecture and opinion. Some clearly rate Viney in the top 5, others don't. I also disagree that you don't ever use high picks on a ruckman, every kid should be judged on their talent. Ottens was a high pick and he was the most important player in Geelong's success imo. Not the best player but the most important to their setup and structure. Rucks that can win the footy, dispose of it well and kick goals are hard to find.

By who? Viney's injury has helped him slide a bit but he still has VFL finals ahead. If Jack gets BOG in a VFL GF to go along with his TAC Cup GF BOG from last year, he'd be pretty hard for GC to ignore.