BW511

Maybe, unlike Ross Lyon, he actually finds the time to work on it. It's all good and well to say people need to get better, but Williams must have the ability to teach them how

I noticed on the weekend that he very, very rarely gets beaten in a contest. That is worth it's weight in gold when you look at how many times Lever or May simply out position their opponent. He makes every contest a 50/50 at worst and I believe a lot of his positioning in marking contests create spillages to the dangerous spots we want to be hitting. Whilst he is not ripping marks in just yet, he is certainly doing his job up forward.

He will sell a lot of jumpers too, he is exactly what the kids aspire to be.

As Petracca said post match, they have finally realised that individual brilliance is not consistent or sustainable enough to win flags. They seem to all be working towards the same common goal for the first time in years, which can only be a result of Chocco and Yze

I was one of the people a little suspect on how soon Kozzie would have an impact. Extremely happy to put my hand up and acknowledge I was wrong - he's now keeping his feet, nailing chances and creating some real headaches for opposition teams. His work in traffic is first class

I think the May for Petty or Hibbo change is the only one, but Melksham continued where he left off last year, trying too hard to do the impossible, rather than just play the percentages. He’s infuriating to watch, particularly when the team has really started to click and play for each other

The game and preparation has come a long way over the years, but there's still areas for improvement.

I've got a question about this for Ross; If you spent 15 minutes each training session doing proper goal kicking practice, would you benefit more from better conversion with the shots you already get or would the 15 minutes doing other [censored] that equates to perhaps one more shot on goal be more beneficial? I would think if you get 20 shots on goal each game and that is ultimately the defining factor in who wins or loses, it is the highest priority item for any coach. Wonder how many shots at the sticks an NRL or NFL kicker has each week? How many penalty kicks would soccer players take during training? How many free throws do basketball players take a week?

Imagine if you loaned out a player that helped said side make finals over your own. For instance a ruckman or KPP

Instead Essendon paid Daniher to rehab for the Lions the following year, genius from Dodoro

Imagine if they had a big supporter base to deal with!

I don't think a shootout bodes well for us against the Saints

I don’t know that this midfield group will ever really figure out the balance to enable a serious tilt at the flag. No one in there seems to sense the moment and stem the tide of an opposition run. We don’t bat deep enough and we have 6-7 of the same or very similar player rolling through. We desperately need a Jack McCrae/Scott Pendlebury/Lachie Whitfield type to open games up with precise kicks to advantage. I fear we might lose out with the rule changes also (again)

We are stuck with Viney for 5 years

I reckon ANB had one of the better games I've seen him play on the weekend. Looked clean and didn't get in the way like normal. Charlie is a ripper, lots of football nous and he is creative with his possessions. If he could go from 10-15 to 15-20 touches a game, he would become one of our most influential players

Thanks mate, it's nice to see someone actually read what I was saying, rather than just be offended because I was not bowing down to Oliver (I actually do though, he's a gun) @Pickett2Jackson I know he won lots of the footy and plenty of contests. My whole point throughout this thread is if we were to lose him, I don't think it would effect our ability to win matches that significantly. He is certainly elite at winning the ball from a contest and giving a quick handball, but his influence on the game is almost zero from then on. He is not a Bont/Dusty/Danger/Fyfe/Cripps who can win a game off his own boot with a big pack mark and goal or by taking the game on and kicking multiple goals. Forgetting what people think of him versus Oliver, Parish could be used as an example. Parish had 18 touches with 7 kicks and 11 handballs (411m gained) - I didn't watch the bombers game, so no idea how he played. If Clayton leaving netted us a Darcy Parish for his role and a real quality outside mid who had 18 kick-favoured possessions, would we be better or worse off?

301 Metres Gained over that 35 touches, I think the disposal efficiency is a little misleading when you're averaging less than 10m per touch.

I have also held this view through preseason. If he hasn't been spending enormous amounts of time over pre-season practicing his goalkicking, he might be out of a job by years end.

I would think it's all to do with sustained success. Clayton and the club were expecting to be well and truly playing consistent finals by now.

I'm not saying he isn't a great player, but he isn't the most important player in our team. Earlier in the thread I listed players I thought had a direct impact on our result, I'll do it again; This is exactly the point, he’s a very even contributor and gets plenty of attention, but from an opposition point of view he would not be the one they want to stop. I think it would currently be Trac, Gawn, May and/or Lever then Oliver. He was rated our 5th best yesterday in the match report, so even they thought a lot of his 35 touches weren’t great or important.

Or perhaps he isn't worth that?

Oliver's stats are not winning us games of football, despite what everyone thinks. See above example

Oliver had 25 handballs. Using this game alone, who was more effective; Trac - 25 (13 Kicks 11 handballs and 2.1 Goals - Including one that missed everything when he 'played on') Oliver - 35 (10 Kicks 25 handballs) Tim Watson is not wrong, even with the high numbers Oliver produced. How do people feel about Tom Mitchell from Hawthorn? He wins a mountain of footy but doesn't do any great damage from a game sense.

Happy to disagree, but it doesn't mean I don't enjoy him as a player. I think if he were to walk we have others that could cover him (Viney, Sparrow, Gus, Harmes etc) and the currency we would get in return would net us the equivalent player in a position which would better balance our side. If he's as good and irreplaceable as many believe, then we could get almost anyone in the league in - think about that side of the equation

This is exactly the point, he’s a very even contributor and gets plenty of attention, but from an opposition point of view he would not be the one they want to stop. I think it would currently be Trac, Gawn, May and/or Lever then Oliver. He was rated our 5th best yesterday in the match report, so even they thought a lot of his 35 touches weren’t great or important. If letting go of Oliver nets us enough picks to bring home a Matt Rowell, I’d be asking where to sign (gotta feel for him right now, poor bugger) If letting go of Oliver got us Josh Kelly or Whitfield, same thing. There’s many more players that could improve our side but even more that could fill his role for zero net loss