BW511

I've got a question about this for Ross; If you spent 15 minutes each training session doing proper goal kicking practice, would you benefit more from better conversion with the shots you already get or would the 15 minutes doing other [censored] that equates to perhaps one more shot on goal be more beneficial? I would think if you get 20 shots on goal each game and that is ultimately the defining factor in who wins or loses, it is the highest priority item for any coach. Wonder how many shots at the sticks an NRL or NFL kicker has each week? How many penalty kicks would soccer players take during training? How many free throws do basketball players take a week?

Imagine if you loaned out a player that helped said side make finals over your own. For instance a ruckman or KPP

Instead Essendon paid Daniher to rehab for the Lions the following year, genius from Dodoro

Imagine if they had a big supporter base to deal with!

I don't think a shootout bodes well for us against the Saints

I don’t know that this midfield group will ever really figure out the balance to enable a serious tilt at the flag. No one in there seems to sense the moment and stem the tide of an opposition run. We don’t bat deep enough and we have 6-7 of the same or very similar player rolling through. We desperately need a Jack McCrae/Scott Pendlebury/Lachie Whitfield type to open games up with precise kicks to advantage. I fear we might lose out with the rule changes also (again)

We are stuck with Viney for 5 years

I reckon ANB had one of the better games I've seen him play on the weekend. Looked clean and didn't get in the way like normal. Charlie is a ripper, lots of football nous and he is creative with his possessions. If he could go from 10-15 to 15-20 touches a game, he would become one of our most influential players

Thanks mate, it's nice to see someone actually read what I was saying, rather than just be offended because I was not bowing down to Oliver (I actually do though, he's a gun) @Pickett2Jackson I know he won lots of the footy and plenty of contests. My whole point throughout this thread is if we were to lose him, I don't think it would effect our ability to win matches that significantly. He is certainly elite at winning the ball from a contest and giving a quick handball, but his influence on the game is almost zero from then on. He is not a Bont/Dusty/Danger/Fyfe/Cripps who can win a game off his own boot with a big pack mark and goal or by taking the game on and kicking multiple goals. Forgetting what people think of him versus Oliver, Parish could be used as an example. Parish had 18 touches with 7 kicks and 11 handballs (411m gained) - I didn't watch the bombers game, so no idea how he played. If Clayton leaving netted us a Darcy Parish for his role and a real quality outside mid who had 18 kick-favoured possessions, would we be better or worse off?

301 Metres Gained over that 35 touches, I think the disposal efficiency is a little misleading when you're averaging less than 10m per touch.

I have also held this view through preseason. If he hasn't been spending enormous amounts of time over pre-season practicing his goalkicking, he might be out of a job by years end.

I would think it's all to do with sustained success. Clayton and the club were expecting to be well and truly playing consistent finals by now.

I'm not saying he isn't a great player, but he isn't the most important player in our team. Earlier in the thread I listed players I thought had a direct impact on our result, I'll do it again; This is exactly the point, he’s a very even contributor and gets plenty of attention, but from an opposition point of view he would not be the one they want to stop. I think it would currently be Trac, Gawn, May and/or Lever then Oliver. He was rated our 5th best yesterday in the match report, so even they thought a lot of his 35 touches weren’t great or important.

Or perhaps he isn't worth that?

Oliver's stats are not winning us games of football, despite what everyone thinks. See above example

Oliver had 25 handballs. Using this game alone, who was more effective; Trac - 25 (13 Kicks 11 handballs and 2.1 Goals - Including one that missed everything when he 'played on') Oliver - 35 (10 Kicks 25 handballs) Tim Watson is not wrong, even with the high numbers Oliver produced. How do people feel about Tom Mitchell from Hawthorn? He wins a mountain of footy but doesn't do any great damage from a game sense.

Happy to disagree, but it doesn't mean I don't enjoy him as a player. I think if he were to walk we have others that could cover him (Viney, Sparrow, Gus, Harmes etc) and the currency we would get in return would net us the equivalent player in a position which would better balance our side. If he's as good and irreplaceable as many believe, then we could get almost anyone in the league in - think about that side of the equation

This is exactly the point, he’s a very even contributor and gets plenty of attention, but from an opposition point of view he would not be the one they want to stop. I think it would currently be Trac, Gawn, May and/or Lever then Oliver. He was rated our 5th best yesterday in the match report, so even they thought a lot of his 35 touches weren’t great or important. If letting go of Oliver nets us enough picks to bring home a Matt Rowell, I’d be asking where to sign (gotta feel for him right now, poor bugger) If letting go of Oliver got us Josh Kelly or Whitfield, same thing. There’s many more players that could improve our side but even more that could fill his role for zero net loss

He’s not our best player and no one in the comp rates our side. Would think there is 6-10 blokes that could do similar work, maybe not at his level but probably 95% which still works

He’s a very good player and still young, but he’s replaceable. $800 x 5 should be more than enough cash wise. Think winning would be higher priority

I agree with this. We will always have those whole quarter lapses and opposition teams will always believe they are in games regardless of score line when playing us. The way the Tigers share the ball around and hit certain spots from areas of the ground is phenomenal. They are extremely well led on and off field. Initial contest is the focus for us, then after that it is anyone’s guess

Reckon this is a chicken/egg type scenario. Melbourne supporters are the way they are because of the club’s history. Success is the number one factor in new membership, whether that’s from the previous generation or the one before that. You could probably also argue that the demographic of Melbourne fans are more likely to have other hobbies, like skiing or visiting their beach houses, as cliche as that is. This means when the performance drops off the supporters interest wanders too. Lot of the traditional Richmond/Carlton/Collingwood/Essendon supporter bases are from lower socioeconomic families and footy is their life

Wonder if all those asking for Sparrow to go were at the game or watching from home? He did a lot of good work around the contest and was never far away. I think he’s quite similar to Viney, so would only make way as a like for like? Hunt & Jones were ordinary, but I’d rather not bring in Melksham so happy for Jones to stay. Hibbo can come in for Hint if required

I wasn’t there nor do I attend regularly, but think Richmond and Collingwood have 2.5 - 3 times our supporter base so it’s to be expected that they can get a crowd in with limited numbers. If we have 40k members and had 20k turn up, that’s probably about right. I’d also love to see some stats on the age of Melbourne supporters, think there would be a lot in the bracket that are very susceptible to this virus and would be hesitant to attend mass gatherings. Finally, I’d rather watch from home with the ability to do other things than be stuck at the ‘G watching games like that. It was a very ordinary affair

This sounds all too familiar