Swooper1987

6. May 5. Lever 4. Nibbler 3. Gawn (and only 76% game time which was a different look) 2. Fritsch 1. Langdon A very clear top 2 today, probably because the ball spent most of the game in our back half.

Yes, agree entirely. It was a different era but it was certainly a much better "flow" - more in sync with what was happening on the field. I watched a replay of the Melbourne V Footscray game from 1987 the other day from the ABC. Drew Morphett, Ian Robertson and Bernie Quinlan were commentating. They let the game tell the story without their own egos becoming part of it. Tim Lane, Doug Heywood, Clarke Hansen, Geoff Leek, John Nicholls all great commentators because of what they didn't say. I didn't mind Bruce until the last few years. He was a great all rounder until he needed to become part of the show.

Great topic. Since 1979, when I was 9 I can recall pretty much every Melbourne season. From each decade - the 80's belonged to Flower. He matched up and bested some of the all time greats - Greig and Schimmelbusch; Hawkins; Neagle; DiPierdomenico; Bryan Wood - some truly great players. Our next best player was probably Gerard Healy, then guys like Brian Wilson, Steve Icke. After 87 and into the 90's, Lyon was definitely the best player over that whole period, Stynes was a great workhorse but was probably never the best ruck in the comp over that period - Madden, Salmon, Scott Wynd, Shaun Rehn etc. Neitz and Schwarz for different periods were wonderful players. Neitz carried that into the first part of the 2000's. A couple of AA's, one B&F, a Coleman and captained us to a GF. Between 2007 and the emergence of Gawn in 2015 there was no Melbourne player who you'd consider elite. Junior McDonald got an AA. Now we have Gawn, with Oliver and Tracc probably a rung below but all three are better than anyone since the Daniher era. I'd rate Gawn as the second best Melbourne player I've seen after Flower; ahead of Lyon and Neitz. He's a great ruck, against other great rucks. He's a champion and he's probably the first player since Flower that opposition teams and fans fear for his ability to influence a game.

It's all so subjective. I think Rob Flower was a terrific captain at Melbourne yet we only played finals once in his tenure of 7 years. Bruce Monteath was a handy player but captained Richmond to a flag (from the bench) in 1980, in a team chock full of leaders - Bartlett, Cloke, Wood, Bourke etc etc. That was his only season as skipper. The best captain I've ever seen, from both an on and off field point of view was Terry Daniher. One of the lads, but set such an outstanding on field example that players were prepared to follow him anywhere. All time greats like Tim Watson and Simon Madden, as well as workmanlike players Peter Bradbury and Steve Carey speak reverently of TD's leadership capabilities. He spoke to fans, to corporates and media in an authentic and relatable manner. Gawn has the capacity to lead like Daniher. He has great media and fan presence. He is an outstanding player who clearly has the respect of the playing group - in almost every interview Petracca and Oliver do they reference the influence Gawn has on their individual and collective games. He has been an outstanding player for many years now. 4 times an AA speaks volumes as to his playing ability. He will grow into the role, and as Petracca, Oliver, Lever, May etc become better able to share that onfield leadership burden, we will collectively become a better team. Those pushing for May need to remember he was not a successful Captain at GC. He led a side with an ingrained poor culture that he couldn't effectively influence, and was a part of since day one. Often injured and sometimes suspended he was far from professional. His first year at Melbourne was a continuation of that. He has played one good season. He has leadership capabilities, no doubt, but he would not have the respect that players like Gawn have built up over a number of years.

Nice to see him go some way to fulfilling the enormous potential he has always had. His work ethic was outstanding both preseason and within season and he reaped the individual accolades that came with that. He still has work to do (one swallow doesn't make a summer) to be spoken of in the same company as Martin but he looks likely to join that elite company if his progression continues on the same trajectory. Congratulations to him!

Gawn is a genuine champion of the game. Bar the Brownlow and a flag, he has won everything there is to win. He's also showing great promise as Captain - a player respected right across the entire competition. Well done on another great season Max, played under great duress.

He's a paid up member of Essendon. Our last significant state level political supporters came from the Bracks Government - then Deputy Premier John Thwaites is a Demon, as is Bracks wife, Terry.Before that was Alan Stockdale, the treasurer in the Kennett Government. Re Geelong - plenty more votes for both sides to be won in that part of the world, from both a state and federal perspective.

I wonder if Tom was to drop a bit of weight and regain his previous mobility if he could actually become the other winger we are looking for? As Alex McDonald pointed out, his 2018 season involved a little bit of wing time, then he'd drift forward and kick goals. Many times during the season he'd start on the wing and then shift forward. He has an elite tank. He's not super quick but I'd wager he's quicker than most guys his height. Richo nearly won a Brownlow when he moved to the wing late in his career. It is a position that might play to his strengths.

Good on you Dr Evil for putting it out there. I've been around long enough to remember when Peter Matera was signed, sealed and just about delivered and ended up staying at West Coast. People change their minds. Smith was probably coming to us at one point, now he's probably not. Keep telling us what you know Doc, it makes an interesting read.

Yep, the Richmond ethos - know your role, accept your role, play your role. Dustin goes forward, kicks match winning goals and the Tigers win flags. He might not get as many Brownlow votes but his team keeps winning. I'm sure Tracc has no problem playing forward if it helps the team succeed.

Tom Morris and John Ralph were discussing trades on the GF preview on Fox Footy. Said that Mahoney and others had met with Hogan and have subsequently ruled him out. Not much more than that.

Agree that Oliver was better than 5th this year (and Gawn was better than 6th but missed games so fair enough), however he got very lucky in 2019 when he wasn't our best player but still tied for the Bluey because Gawn missed in effect two games (Brisbane when he was injured by quarter time and then Carlton the week after due to the same injury). These things are always in the eye of the beholder. As I said in another post, Rob Flower is the best Melbourne player in my lifetime. He won the Bluey once, in generally hopeless teams. Peter Moore and Brian Wilson both had outstanding Brownlow winning years in the 80's and neither won the Bluey. Danny Hughes beat Gerard Healy in 1985 when Healy had an outstanding season - his last in red and blue. Viney beat Gawn in 2016 which was a staggering decision considering Gawn dominated that season, was AA and polled 16 Brownlow votes. It's a bit of a raffle. I think our top 6 this year were the best 6 players. The order - probably not right but when you have 4 people independently giving scores out of 10 you'll get all sorts of differing views. People rate the AFLCA votes - Polec got 4 off Teague when North played Carlton and the umps gave him 1 Brownlow vote, yet he was dropped for next game by Shaw.

Probably this season they were, over the 17 games. I'd take a few others before them in an open draft but based on this season, I have no argument at all that they were the two best performed players. In relation to Gawn, which was the point of the post you replied to, he was clearly the best ruck in the comp until he got injured. He was a unanimous choice for AA ruck in both Jake Niall's and Robbo's AA teams and Naitanui was not even in consideration at that stage. After his injury, Naitanui had the better second half of the year and both were rightly selected in the team of the year. I believe Gawn to be the more valuable player due to his marking ability. I struggle to see how the best ruckman in the game can take only 11 marks for the season and average around 65% game time in 4 16 minute quarters. But it's just an opinion.

Max polled in 6 games, 3 times he scored 2 votes in losses - Geelong, Richmond and the Swans. He polled in three wins - 2 votes v Carlton and Gold Coast and 3 v Hawthorn. Says a bit about Max that he still plays well when some of his team mates don't. Viney was the other one to pick up votes in multiple losses - WC and Fremantle.

And well done to Gawn, who was clearly the top vote getter amongst the ruckmen. His first half of the season was outstanding, until his injury. Thoroughly deserved his AA. Interesting the umpires only gave Naitanui 5 votes for his season. 11 marks across the year tells you what the umpires notice and what they don't.

The Bluey has thrown up all sorts of bizarre results over the years. Flower one it once only and is our best player since the halcyon days. RDB won it only a couple of times. Danny Hughes beat Gerard Healy in 1985; Laurie Fowler was a multiple winner during Flower's best years; Brian Wilson and Peter Moore both won Brownlow's in the 80's and neither won the B&F in the year they won it. It's a bit of pot luck. Oliver may be unhappy with his 5th placing, but he got very lucky the previous year when he tied with Gawn.

If Neale doesn't win it'll be daylight robbery. He's had an outstanding season and would be the worthiest of winners. Tracc has no history of polling well and it usually takes a year or so for the umps to catch up.

He is a champion player of not only this club but also the competition. You only need to listen to supporters of other clubs to understand how highly regarded he is across the whole football community. Well done Max!

15 Demons received coaches votes in 2020. Petracca polled in 11 games and received 78 votes.(4.6) Oliver 6 games 34 votes (2) Viney 7 games 30 votes (1.8) Gawn 6 games 30 votes (2.1) May 6 games 28 votes (1.6) Brayshaw 3 games 19 votes Langdon 5 games 17 votes Fritsch 1 game 8 votes Weidemann 3 games 4 votes Lever 1 game 4 votes Hibberd 1 game 4 votes Salem 2 games 3 votes Hunt 1 game 2 votes Spargo 1 game 2 votes Brown 1 game 1 vote Number in brackets represents average votes per game played. May didn't poll until Round 7 and Langdon didn't score his first votes until Round 11. After Round 10 Viney only polled once, a 1 vote performance in our loss to the Dockers. Max polled in three of our last 4 games (Sydney, GWS and Essendon). Petracca only polled twice when we lost this season. Oliver did not poll a vote in our final 6 games. Fritsch, Hunt and Brown all polled their only votes in the final game of the season. Based on our club B&F results May was rated more highly internally, and it appears Gawn a bit lower, although missing three games needs to be factored into that as well.

Lot's of examples of players with diabetes having good careers. Dale Weightman, Jamie Cripps, Sam Reid (GWS) are three off the top of my head. I doubt that would deter anyone from picking him up. His fitness issues are not diabetes related. I doubt he was professional enough in his training standards early on and then he got terribly unlucky with his head knocks. I do think a club will take a chance on him as a rookie. I doubt it will be us.

I'm still unsure why John isn't a life member of the club. He coached 7 seasons but coached more games than Brian Wilson played for the Demons in 9 seasons yet Willo is in (quite rightly) and John isn't. His accomplishments as a coach at Melbourne are quite outstanding even if he couldn't land the elusive flag. 5 successive finals series, each time making at least the second week; one GF and a prelim. All up he coached us to 13 finals for 8 wins; 2 Night flags and a record against Hawthorn the envy of any club of that period. In fact we stopped their run of consecutive grand final appearances in 1990. There'd be few more deserving, and he clearly still loves the club.

Further investigation on the Demonwiki site reveals that Max is actually the 5th Melbourne player to finish 6th in the Bluey and make AA in the same season. In addition to those above, Jim Stynes was 6th in 1993 and was selected as AA Ruck, and in 2000, after a 76 goal season, Jeff Farmer also finished 6th and was named in the Forward Pocket of the AA side. That must be some sort of a record! Even more interestingly, in 1993, Garry Lyon also made the AA side and he finished 5th in the Bluey.

Max is the third Melbourne player to make the AA team after finishing 6th in the club B&F after Adem Yze in 2002 and Michael Hibberd in 2017. Just goes to show how different people see it. Consistently different by the look of it.

Well done Max and Tracc. Given NicNat only plays about 65% game time, makes sense to play the second ruck!

LT, Gawn didn't play that game. it was the third game he missed. I feel we may have seen a somewhat different outcome in the stoppages had he taken the field. That was all on Preuss and our rather pathetic midfield performance that day.