Swooper1987

No he hasn't. When has Grundy beaten Gawn this year? I hope you aren't counting Grundy's 38% disposal efficiency game against Gawn on Saturday as "win". Grundy was also obliterated by Soldo when they played the Tigers a couple of weeks ago.

Looks a fair reflection of our disappointing season. Gawn has been a standout, Oliver has been fairly consistent but not outstanding, Salem has slowed after a strong first two-thirds of the season and Trac and Fritsch look to be finishing strongly.

As David Morrison put it - "The standard you walk past is the standard you accept". Our club walked straight past the preliminary final last year. There was no review of the game which basically was saying to the team "It's ok boys, we overachieved but we'll be back next year." If that is the standard the coaching group are prepared to accept, then a losers culture is still permeating the club. I can't help but think of the way Sheedy handled Essendon's 1983 GF thrashing. We need to set and hold a professional standard and we need to coach a ruthless mentality. Ian Chappell once said of Rod Marsh - I've known plenty of players who'd die for the baggy green, but only one who'd kill for it. Who would kill for the Demons? This season Goodwin has clearly been out of his depth. Roos isn't the answer but a decent mentor is required. Macca clearly wasn't the man. I'm not sure who is but I doubt it's Bolton or Richardson.

Notwithstanding further injury problems, this trade will be a huge win for the Demons. Lever was a star in 2017, and was playing into some good form last year before injury. He is one of the more courageous aerial players in the league and a decent preseason will set him up for a great 2020.

No anger, just an observation. His comments are superfluous because we can all see what's wrong. The fact is, he gets good coin to state the obvious. Good luck to him.

Whilst Lyon is often right in his opinion that Melbourne suck, and he clearly loves the club, the biggest issue I have is that he offers no remedy. "Melbourne's skills are deplorable", "Melbourne get killed on turnover", "Melbourne are one way runners", etc etc. It's the same commentary whether it's SEN Breakfast, On the Couch or Match day. Tell us what needs to be done to fix it!! What is your blueprint, Garry?

Good job Joeboy. Hard to argue with that.

Brodie Grundy - a lock for AA for the second year in a row had 16 disposals at 38% efficency. He got three of those disposals when Gawn was off the ground. Gawn got 13 at 62% and kicked a goal, and had a lot more hitouts to advantage. Neither player was as influential as usual and I'm not saying Gawn was in out best players but I think to say he was flat or out of sorts is a stretch. It's AFL and you can't be BOG every week. These are the two best ruckmen in the league and it was a good battle which ended up even. Petracca showed great energy today, Fritsch is a forward if ever I've seen one - just a shame he couldn't finish off today. Once again, too many turnovers.

Gawn wasn't beaten - Grundy had 16 disposals at 38% efficiency and at least three of then were against McDonald in the ruck. Gawn had 13 at 62%, a goal and many more hit outs to advantage. He wasn't in our best 6 however.

Gawn's ability to never give up never ceases to amaze. Oliver is an able accomplice and Fritsch has clearly improved since being moved forward. Lewis did a solid job on Grimes, and Frost tried hard. I didn't mind Dunkley's effort as well. Preuss looks a long way from the standard required. He's not Robinson Crusoe though.

Just keeps on delivering. His effort to knock the ball over the line at the end said it all. Just never gives up. We are lucky to have him.

6. Gawn 5. Oliver 4. Fritsch 3.Frost 2. Hibberd 1.Dunkley The top 3 were easy, the rest a bit of a raffle.

I'd definitely be keen on S. Hill. He's an outstanding ball user, is still quicker than most on our list and we'd get him for nothing. Assuming this year was an aberration, he and his brother are potentially the difference from finalist to serious contender. Langdon is quickish but not a great user. I'd have the Hill's before him.

The whole great captain thing is really interesting. I was thinking about the best of each era going back to the 80's. I've gone for Terry Daniher from he 80's - versatile, inspirational, courageous and well supported by a couple of other all time greats - Simon Madden and Tim Watson. Then a whole host of very good players like Neagle, Van Der Haar, Merrett, Foulds, etc. In the 90's I'd take Carey. And with many of the characteristics of TD, but an even better player. And a great support cast - Archer, Stevens, Martyn and again a solid next tier - King, Fairley, Bell, Longmire, Laidley etc. Move to the 2000's and there Voss - a superstar in any era, but again has players the calibre of Lappin, Black, Power, Lynch, Brown, Akermanis, and solid citizens like Hart, Ashcroft, Michael, the Scott's etc. In more recent times we have Hodge, again supported by Lewis, Roughhead, Franklin, Gunston, Rioli, McEvoy, Hale etc. All multiple premiership captains, great leaders of great teams with great supporting casts (and great coaches). So what makes a great leader - is it a great team or having enough of a critical mass of good to great leaders within the group. I don't think it matters who our captain is, because we don't have the critical mass of leaders that great sides have. If TD had a rare down day, up pops Watson or Madden to show the way. This year Gawn has been our only "leader" to deliver and most weeks it hasn't been nearly enough. Whoever is captain won't succeed without great team mates - so Viney, Jones, Gawn - whoever, it won't matter at all until we have enough great leaders in our group. This is where Grant Thomas was on to something with his leadership rotation. It did develop a good core of leaders of at the Saints around Riewoldt. Ultimately unsuccessful but good enough to nearly win 2 flags.

Noticed this myself. To be honest Gawn has carried this side almost single handed all year. Oliver has been capable enough and Petracca has been ok given the position he has been asked to play and the impact he has had on the scoreboard. 20 plus goals is a handy return with four games still to play. The rest of them have been mediocre to completely hopeless. May will be a great player if he can get fit and I still have high hopes for Lever. Melksham has been sorely missed.

Go back and have another look at the game. 18 disposals at 83% plus 8 marks as well as double digit hit outs to advantage and 40 hit outs in total against a very decent opponent. He is carrying this side at the moment. The problem he has is that the benchmark he has set is now so ridiculously high that he needs to be twice as good as his opponent to be considered to have had an influence. Imagine what last night would have looked like without him (you got a brief glimpse when Bruce kicked two of his goals playing in the ruck against Smith).

6. Gawn - great again against a very promising opponent. 8 marks, 18 possessions, 40 hit outs, all class 5. Petracca - 3 goals and 20 possessions, always a danger 4. Harmes - another workmanlike job. 3. Oliver - quiet in the second but otherwise a good game 2. Lever - disposal was shoddy but 9 marks 1. Salem - best of the rest probably

My preference would be two games per year in the Alice. Leave Darwin to the Gold Coast. I'd think GWS and North would be good opponents. Two games in the centre would start to feel like a home ground advantage.

This is probably the best indication of a players season. It is also representative of our season too. Only three players on our list have polled votes in more than two games. Gawn is on 53 having polled in 7 games; Oliver is on 38 having polled in 8 games (6 times he has polled 4 votes); and Harmes is on 18 from 4 games which includes our only perfect 10 for the season. The following players have polled in two games - McDonald (16 votes); Salem (3 votes); Hunt (4);Jones (14); Viney (8); Frost (2); Fritsch (11) and May (3). Brayshaw, Melksham and Lewis have each recorded votes in one game. I think that is broadly representative of our season. Gawn has dominated games; Oliver has been consistent but not spectacular; Harmes has had the odd cameo and the rest have been the very occasional glimpse of briliance - McDonald, Fritsch etc. The only real surprise is Salem. It has felt like his season has been much better than the three votes from two games that he has.

AFL Fantasy Points - Gawn 101 Hickey 57; Supercoach Gawn 132, Hickey 57. Interestingly Oscar Allen scored 70 in supercoach and was second ruck. So Gawn 132 beat Hickey/Allen 127 combined. And that from a bloke who didn't play at his best. Gawn is a star even on his bad days!!

He'd be playing number one ruck at Richmond, Sydney and Essendon right now if he were at any of those clubs. He is a ruckman only and to be honest, the extra minutes Gawn went forward yesterday while Preuss rucked didn't help our cause at all. I'd consider the trade.

I'm a Gawn fan, but I'm surprised by both the commentators underestimation of his game and the lack of votes thus far. He was definitely in our top 6 players. The problem he has is that he needs to be at least twice as good as his direct opponent to be noticed. Today he scored 101 Fantasy points (Hickey got 57). Gawn took 4 contested marks (the equal most on the ground) and had 5 tackles and 10 contested possessions. He was treated pretty harshly by the umpires again and Campbell Brown made the laughable observation that Hickey took the points! He wasn't our best player today, but he was certainly very significant in most of our good bits of play. 6.Fritsch 5.Oliver 4. Salem 3. Gawn 2. May 1. Lewis

There are a number of issues with Preuss but the biggest impact he has is reducing Gawn's minutes on ball. Gawn is arguably the best player in the competition, and certainly the best player in our team. We need to maximise his minutes where he influences the game the most. He's an average deep forward at best but a sublime ruck. No more Preuss unless Max doesn't play.

Composure in front of goal telling. Terrible decision against Gawny in the last. They are really trying hard to reduce his influence. Preuss is unfortunately not up to it. He's an adequate centre square ruck for about 30 minutes. He gives nothing else. Oliver was great for three quarters, Fritsch very good, and despite Campbell Brown's observations, Gawn dominated Hickey. Harmes was solid, Brayshaw and Lewis played great team roles and May continues to impress. A few positives.

6. Max "That's ruck craft Big Boy" Gawn - he gives our midfield such an advantage which they continually don't utilise. 5. Jack Viney - his best game in a long time 4. Harry Petty - looked a natural 3. Steve May - love his attack on the ball and the man 2. Christian Salem - one of two Christians to play a very solid game today 1. Christian Petracca - the other one.