Engorged Onion

He does lead to pockets. most would think the pockets are a larger degree of difficulty bloke nailed a crucial goal...from the pocket. im satisfied. ?

doubled the scoring shots doubled the scoring shots always a good indication....

Here we are 15 points up, Viney hasn't been sighted since mid way through the 2nd, Petracca feels quiet... Saints are a good team no doubt, and aside from some errors, we are 3 kicks up... happy days.

Has been right?

Clearly we see things differently and thats fine - the last I'll say in this conversation on this is as follows. Club's can put out public goals on performance as much as they want - for mine, its lovely, and it's irrelevant- all clubs are vying for the same thing ultimately in a 5 year period anyway.... so I don't use them to guide my decision making on club hope's from the marketing brochure. I disagree that we get beaten, 'consistently in exactly the same way'. I also disagree that the other points are solely 'on Goodwin'. We made the top 8, we failed to make the top 8 2 other times, by the barest of margins. Sport is about the barest of margins - I see 'barest of margins' as a mitigating factor for any team. Take Brisbane last night...Take Stephen Milne, Take Tomlinson from last year. The comparison was not about Ross or Simon, I could have easily used Damian Hardwick or Alister Clarkson or Stewie Dew...it doesn't matter - the point was - all coaches/teams, have deficiencies - including the ones that win in any given season... Ultimately, you are I are debating who's responsibility is performance - I subscribe that there are two parties in this - the information giver (coach, football department) and the information receiver (player/athlete). I don't subscribe to a binary view that the buck stops with the coach. Finally, time frame's. Mine is clearly more elastic than your's. Enjoy the game today, I hope if we win (or when we win another game throughout the season), we can have another conversation about what benefit the coach and FD have had on the team and what role they had to set up the win.

Sorry, to answer the question directly not having relevant personnel - winger (either fast with ball, or can spread, or decent disposal) no tall forwards all mids move to the ball, rather than create space. a range of poor disposals These will be the reasons we lose tonight... some of those reasons are not on Goodwin

My take is, that the players are still with him and that he is competent as a coach. I don't quite see it black and white personally as though if you don't win a premiership you're no goo as a coach. As an example, I have never enjoyed Ross Lyon, either his manner, or his style - but he is clearly a good coach - his two teams also played with deficiencies, that he was unable to rectify.... but the process of rectification that never occurred, was that due to 'his message not getting through' - or was it something else? So for me, coaching is an iterative process, some individual athletes will struggle with bringing their weaker parts of the game up to scratch (ie:...not go and retrieve ball, must guard/create space) - so who is that on, the coach or the player? If the player is given numerous chances, let's say Billy Stretch as an example, then his all around game makes it easy to dispose of him... a Jack Viney who clearly has a higher ceiling, is held on to (whilst still demonstrating similar deficiencies)...but this means the iterative process slows down, because who is is recruited who is competent at that specific skill? There are only so many players... I'd also argue that the breakdown in those same areas, are exactly the same areas that all clubs breakdown in when they lose... And all clubs, aside from Richmond have failed time and time and time and time and time again... Like you I'm anxious with having Goodwin, and the tension for me is that, if we are winning some games, and not others, as long as the loses are not blow outs, then I'd give Goodwin one more year- this is essentially, the process of creating a team with a range of optimal attributes - for me, games experience - Richmond 'popped' 3 years ago when the core of their midfield hit 130-150 games..we are one season off from that......now clearly that's not the only 'magical' thing to occur... but nonetheless it's a process of refinement of strategy athletes that can fill a demand (trading, drafting) and the players themselves, either by their own willingness, or by other means, act on the coaching departments instructions If the losses start to blow out.... he is done... not from an optics perspective... but the players clearly have no motivation to continue their football career under his stewardship. Jimmy, when you sit back and reflect on the days that we win, in your warm glow... what do you attribute those wins to?

No Worries, I had read it slightly differently. I disagree that he has lost the players if we lose today, he will clearly have lost you though and that’s ok. The coaching staff have been steadily addressing deficiencies, as all clubs do. If we lose today it will be via a myriad of the same ways that all clubs lose, but if you/anyone wants it to fit the narrative that the players aren’t playing for the coach then you can. But correlation doesn’t equal causation. all clubs essentially address the exact same issues either in a systemic way or individual way each week anyway...

??? what's the context?

Great intel @Little Goffy - did you know this off the top of your head?

Ah, so this particular round, the win or loss, is predicated only by the players investment in Goodwin? That's an intense read after 2 rounds Jimbob.

dont have a link, but in The Age / re: Dustin Martin (today's)

Clayton must be watching this pondering schrodinger's cat.

@Altona-demon - love the endeavour in your post. Thorough, thorough thorough. As the eternal optimist my alterations are below. Probables Geelong - Round 4 Hawks Round 5 North in Tas - Round 7 Carlton - MCG - Round 9 Adelaide - SA - Round 10 Collingwood - Round 13 Essendon - MCG - Round 15 Giants - Round 16 Hawks - Round 18 GC - Metricon - Round 19 I'll only leave these here purely because I think they're all gettable wins... that takes us to 10 wins ('yes including Adelaide Oval, and even more 'yes, I left out Adelaide at the G, because what we do is lose those ones) But the beauty of reading this for me, is that nowhere throughout the season, do we win more than two games in a row, which of course creates that old familiar feeling that is synonymous when opening up this forum with... yeah - we won, but clearly we're not actually good enough.

Leave me out of it... (good read though)

I hope the "why we beat x team' thread continues weekly.... it's a positive place for positive people.

Ruthless Dr. Ruthless... Serious question... if the AFL said that 2 clubs from Melbourne has to exit the state (exit or fold)... out of sheer pragmatism would you put forward Melbourne as one of those clubs, on the notion of your version of 'deservedness'? Is it membership numbers? Is it continued performance over a period of years? Is it random facts like below? it's been 5,892 days since Essendon won a final Carlton have been in finals series twice in the last decade ...im off for dinner with the kids...but im sure there are useless facts for North Melbourne St Kilda, Hawthorn, Footrscrazy, etc, that would perhaps fit them into a notion of not deserving either... Still Demonland is a great place for folk to vent that their expectations aren't being met I suppose

Hard but fair player he is, like the players of yore...hard but fair.

What questions would these be? FMD. On a more serious note, I know for me as I have had a family, my commitments to AFL are no longer the priority - as it may be for some... and that's ok. Not every person lives their entire life fully committed to attending games, or can justify it to themselves or their family members. The options of how we spend our lives on weekends is not so myopic as it may have been 20 years ago (in my 20's). You're merely putting your own expectations on how a life should be lived, onto others, and I'd argue it's far too inflexible.

Is this logo 'on brand'? We moved this on circa 15 years ago eh?

Well that was easily solved @kev martin ?

Yep - it's a rare day I agree with your constant vitriol of the club selections and players @olisik (back handed, I know) - however, the evidence from the last few years is that Harmes struggles in this position... however, I defer to the selection committee... the decision cannot be around 'it'll click sometime for him'... so what else is there to do?

thanks for the insight @deelusions from afar

How are we all feeling a few years on from the mortal remains of Jack Watts leaving the club? Oscar's in the same echelon.... Here's to this thread getting to as many pages as JW...

Good chat there kind bloke - would you care to point me in the direction of it?