Vogon Poetry

Dud second half. He's no good.

Scully is fantastic.

Interesting in the interview that Jimmy was told on numerous occasions to see someone about his lump but ignored the advice including, I'm pretty sure, a referral from his doctor to a specialist. You gotta wonder. A lesson there for everyone.

Wagner? Shoulder 12?

When we've finished this thread let have: 1. Watts v NicNat 2. Wines v Toumpas 3. Martin v Trengove 4. Morton v Dangerfield 5. Scully, Trengove, Gysberts, Tapscott v Fyfe At least there is a defining difference with the McCartin v Petracca debate.

Agree with all of that Red, pity Lewis had a brain fade as perhaps Bernie is down there to cover for him and others that are injured. I'm more angry than disappointed. Hogan and Vince have cost us at least 4 and arguably 8 points. In a tight year where I doubt there will be any easy games that is unforgivable. How they could put the work of 45 teammates and the whole FD's work for the year at risk for stupid undisciplined cheap shots is utterly incomprehensible and deflating. I wasn't having a go at you, just pointing out the silliness of blaming one person for one mistake for the loss.

He'll never be at your level A F.

No, it's about a bitterly disappointed bloke spitting the dummy because we lost and blaming the last bloke to make a mistake regardless of logic. He is also partial to a slice of humble pie. Well that's what I think anyway.

Either one of them could have just played. That would have been enough.

Let's just accept he was very good. Wasn't best on ground but was a very valuable member of the team and played a key role in the defensive half. Happy?

As someone who has negotiated player contracts in the past I can assure you Lewis and Hogan will have no match payment component in their contracts.

Not many would disagree with the fact Bernie wasn't at his best in the last few minutes and it's easy to concentrate on that at the expense of other team issues. But we lost not because Bernie missed a kick in the last few minutes, we lost because the whole team failed to compete in the third quarter. I think the call that Bernie is finished is premature but who knows, Dazzle might be right or he might put this down as more humble pie like his calls on Hunt and Salem. Dazzle is very fond of humble pie. There is no doubt we concentrate on players who get the ball and make mistakes but what about Neville Jetta. His games last week and this week were pretty ordinary. Bernie had more contested possessions this week than Jetts has had in two weeks. The opposition smalls have had a picnic against us two weeks in a row. Melksham has been ordinary all year but he's not being dissected and analysed like Bernie because he was so poor, and, like Jetts, he couldn't get the ball and therefore didn't "make mistakes". Red says Vince's positioning when Freo scored their last goal was stupid. He blamed Bernie, not Melksham or Jetts (or any number of other players). Heaven knows why but perhaps he knows more than me and knows it was Bernie who should have been behind the ball. Frankly I think like all of us he's just bitterly disappointed and at the moment Vince is being made the scapegoat. I'm no expert on what the stats mean and I know people with views disregard stats when they work against them and use them to support arguments but Vince had 25 possessions, 9 contested and 10 intercept possessions. He had 2 clangers. Face value that's a pretty good game. McDonald, who I reckon had an absolute stinker, had 7 clangers and missed a simple mark resulting in a goal in the third. But we're not blaming McDonald. Viney, ANB, Watts and Weed missed simple shots but no, we're blaming Bernie because his mistake was in the last minute or so. I'm happy to back Bernie in, I don't need a specific scapegoat because I reckon 22 players went missing in the third quarter and another two have gone missing for two games each so it's a list issue not a specific player issue.

Does anyone have the age and games comparison for today?

The point is we didn't win either game, would almost certainly have won today and arguably last week with them. I'm talking what happened, not what should have happened. I'm a believer in having ball winners in your team. Vince got it regularly and made a couple of errors. Melksham and Jetta didn't get it. I reckon that really hurts, more than Vince's errors.

I rarely read this thread but it was a gutting game and I wanted to get peoples take. Let's be clear. We didn't lose because one player made one mistake, we lost for macro reasons. Freo are much better than people have given them credit for, they've got back a wonderful ruckman and one of the game very elite players. Those players feed another strength which is their outside run and this is where we lost today. They ran harder and spread harder than us and could easily go from one end of the ground to the other. We couldn't. For those kicking Vince I'd guess most of you weren't at the ground. For almost all the game Freo had us covered both down the line and stopped us switching. Yes Bernie made some mistakes but it seems that people always want to pick on the mistake in a 25 disposal game and not balance that with the good he did. All day we had few if any easy options coming out of the backline and the final quarter was no different. Weed missed a simple goal but so did a number of others when there was much less pressure. He's not ready and I'm yet to see him play an AFL quality game other than his first which may have passed. He was very ordinary in the JLT and hasn't fired a shot in three games. But I doubt Smith would have done better particularly when you look at the way the ball was delivered. And of course there is the pretty obvious reason that while 22 were toiling away on the field two of our best players, one irreplaceable, were sitting in the stands watching. Lewis you can almost cover but we are awful up forward without Hogan particularly when Watts relieves in the ruck. We also desperately missed Hogan coming out of defence as a lead up target and to be honest I didn't realize how much until today. These two have cost the club big time, by the end of the season it may well be a finals spot. How they can look their teammates in the face I don't know. But forget the micro incidents, we lost for macro reasons. What is evident is we lack a player able to turn the game and if we've half a brain we should be chasing Fyfe or Martin (or both) with every effort we can muster.

Yeh, and we should leave Hogan out when he's available and keep playing Tim Smith.

Jack Watts..........................................................

Obviously more with Hogan than Pedo, I reckon we were a very good chance with Hogan because our forward structure would have been maintained and he kicks goals at Etihad. But when you watch the game as I know you will you'll make up your own mind. I'm surprised you couldn't find a sports bar!

We clearly differ but the facts are that while Pedersen and Smith were available Hogan wasn't and therefore Goodwin couldn't pick him.

No endorsement of Jake and "coaches like experimenting". Or words to that extent. I thought it odd but probably means nothing

I was responding to someone who said that their suspension wouldn't be the difference between winning and losing. The poster is right if we had won all our games in their absence. We didn't and I think not having Lewis and especially Hogan impacted very significantly on yesterdays result. Clearly I'm talking about the impact or consequence of their actions not the actions themselves. And as we lost yesterday some posters might reflect on their initial view. Not you though, I know that.

Goodwin's response in his presser was strange. Hope Jake isn't injured.

If anyone is looking for some footy karma for Carlton just look at the radar image and imagine what it might be like at the MCG at around 2 to 4 pm this afternoon and the impact that will have on their home ground attendance. It will cost them heaps. Sometimes it's possible to get pleasure out of small things.

I was curious when I read this the first time but thought I'd wait and see because you may well have been right although at best it was a guess. When Gawn went down yesterday and Watts went into the ruck my heart sank for a number of reasons. Watts did exceptionally well for the next 2 quarters but predictably ran out of steam playing against two players who are much bigger. But my heart sank because I knew that in the forward line we'd be left with two key forwards with less than 10 games experience between them with the "experienced" player not yet anywhere near being ready to be the primary forward target. Had Hogan been playing we'd have been in a significantly stronger position and may well have taken more advantage of our dominance in the second and third quarters. And for what it's worth Lewis would have been handy. I trust now most recognize the stupidity of these two players actions and can see the bigger picture and the impact it potentially has on our chances and performance this year. IMO they were both stupid and unjustifiable actions and shouldn't be defended. We need to move on but I'm both angry and disappointed with these two - not, as Lewis says, that they'll care.

Lol. Tell that to Jack Viney. Anyway enough. We play today and we'll see how we go without them.