Rodney (Balls) Grinter

Yeah, I know, but in the tradition of Australian journalism, why let the truth get in the way of a good story.

Merged topic from discussion in a few threads. Early candidates are: Ben Brown Brodie Grundy Luke Jackson Max Gawn Nathan Jones Dyson Heppell James Worpel

At which point they should like suspend any Essendrug side from competing in season 2020, no top-ups, just no Essendrug FC.

Hope they have got a "get a f@#%ing haircut" clause in that deal.

I rated Keating as being a solid, robust, reliable ruck option, but I'm not sure that he would have been the best ruck in the league. Had a pretty decent team around him and did enough to carry his weight and play his role within that team and I think that's really the key.

Would also love to see Viney back at full fitness and Clary take it up a few more notches to become the most dominant midfielder in what transforms into the most dominant midfield in the competition.

Would love to see AVB go through a season uninjured and finding his most damaging, bone-crunching form.

Oh, come on. Training in that kind of smoke would be like poor mans altitude training wouldn't it? An opportunity missed by the MFC.

It just a flesh wound!

Talk about having your cake and eating it too. You also have to wounder if this will set a precedent amoung free agents.

Not great, but at least by all accounts he got himself into much better shape before this (hopefully) minor flare up, so we should still be a long way ahead of last season in this regard.

Partially agree, but I don't see much about the way Freitch plays as being non robust. Guy is a better pack mark than some others twice his size in our team. Have seen him frequently put his body on the line and bring down quality marks, so I don't get this thing about Fritta needing to step into gear - he just needs to be played in position forward where he is best suited and of most value to our team and not down back, where perhaps he doesn't have the right mindset to be either a defensive player or distribute the ball as confidently on the rebound.

So for me, just making the 8 in 2020 will be just - meh, now show us if this side is really something and finish top 4 in 2021. P.S. to contradictory to almost everything I have stated in this thread, I took out the G.F. gaurentee membership option early in 2018, because if we ever do make it again an win one, by F%#@, I'm going to be there at the G to remember it!

From what I've observed I think there are diffences. Asides from them having a heap more arrogant sunny day supporters, even their more reasonable supporters don't get carried away with just making finals when they are not in a realistic position to contend, because when you have won a flag only 3 - 5 years earlier, why get carried away and grasp at straw hopes of a miracle flag from 6th position. Conversely winning that flag from outside 4th is all I've ever known as a MFC supporter and thus until fairly reciently I've held onto that hope that us making finals gives us a chance at that all illusive premiership. Incidentally, I didn't think we would beat WC in the prelim in 18 and didn't think we would take the world by storm in 2019, but didn't think the drop off would be so sharp either.

Agree with much of what you are saying Macca. But at the same time, I do wounder if the expectations or lack there of within the supporter base and or the recent history of lack of success feed back and infect the psyche within the playing group and club. The players last year did also talk about riding the wave of support that embraced the club come finals time and in some ways I wounder if that contributed to us playing too many players carrying injuries along the way that ended up totally screwing our 2019, where as a club more confident and focused on winning flags would have taken better stock of what finishing 5th meant for the road ahead in finals and wouldn't have thrown the kitchen sink at winning two elimination finals at the expense of the physical well being of so many of those players? Anyways I know for me personally I've learnt the lesson that winning premierships from the lower rungs of the 8 is a folly and if we are not on track to do that, then not to get too hung up about the season as it plays out win/loss and final position wise. Also to finish in that top four, it usually means only 5 - 6 losses for the season or only one loss in every 5 - 6 games, so if that's not how we are tracking, then again it's just another development year, perhaps with some additional finals experience added on.

Elaborating on that mindset thing - aim low, achieve low. I do wounder if it's actually become culturally ingrained within the MFC, drives thinking and decision making and a becomes somewhat of a self fulfilling prophecy? Does on some level the club congratulate it's self mid season, when it looks like we are just in a good position to make finals and even subconsciously take the foot off the accelerator and stumble, where a club with a more recent history of success knows that just making finals is a non achievement, keeps pushing and sets it's self up with a ladder position to give it's self the best chance of real success at the pointy end of the season come finals?

The premier rarely comes from outside the top 4. Dogs in 16 are about the only exception I can think of off the top of my head in the past 2 decades. If your not finishing top 4, your not truely contending, just pretending. In 2018 we were one win off finishing top 4, so I hardly think it's an unattainable goal with the list we have. I really do think it's partly a mindset thing, but it's a barrier the MFC needs to break to win us that elusive premiership.

So just looking back on the 2018 W/L record and ladder again - another 1 win and we finish 3rd and play WC in Perth for the 2nd Qualifying final, another 2 wins and we finish 2nd and play WC in Melb. Sydney in Rd 21 was the other very winnable game that we through away. At the time there was uproar and panic on Demonland that it was the game that would see us miss our opportunity to make finals. In retrospect, it was a game that prevented us from finishing top 4. I know hindsight is kind of useless is some respects, but I think it can also be a useful guide and learning tool. That game against Sydney also really sums up the step change in maturity that those core players like Oliver, Brayshaw, Trac, Viney and even Max need to take. My recollection of that game was that we absolutely blew them out of the water in the first quarter and established what really should have been a match winning lead. Instead we enabled Sydney to peg back the lead over the course of the 2nd quarter and then start to dominate and dictate the game. A mature side would have known how and when to defend that lead and close out the game. I really do think that in 2018 we showed we were close to good enough. Really looking for us to go to that next level and become clinical and consistent in seizing the opportunities that present.

Posting this as a question, based on a proposition. I know this might seem like a somewhat strange and over ambitious given the 2019 that we have just endured, but to me, just stumbling over the line and making finals in 2020 would not represent enough of an improvement or step forward for me to get excited about. In my lifetime, I watched many talent laden MFC teams show loads of promise and even make a grand final or two, but barely any that I have watched have played consistently well enough finish the season in a preimship winning position of being in the upper echelon of the ladder with all it's perks of getting a double change and potential rest weeks at the pointy end. In the 80s, this would have ment a top 3 finish and now a days it's top 4. I follow the MFC aspiring to one day watch them win a premiership. Making finals is simply not enough for me. I've watched the MFC play lots of finals over the last 30 years, notch up some good wins in them. I have seen the MFC play the kind of dominant kind of foot where myself and fellow supporters have rued watching GF's that we though we could have won, but been unable to contend after being bundled out of finals series at critical times. The reality is that for a number of reasons, unless teams finish in the top 4, they don't really have a fighting chance of making, let alone winning a GF. Is finishing top 4 in 2020 a realistic objective? - I think it is. Richmond in 2017 went from 13th to 3rd. In 2018, although we only just stumbled into the finals series, from recollection, we were only a couple of wins off finishing top 4, with very winnable games against Geelong (twice), St Kilda and Port Adelaide that come to mind. I'm really hoping that 2019 was somewhat of an arbitration and this year we have an 'easy' draw to help us - something which probably helped the Tigers in 2017. Our lack of compressiveness in 2019 was hard to watch and down right depressing at times, but in spite of that I wasn't that upset about it, because unless we won the premiership, then it was just another wasted season in the amoung the many that I have a supporter. I know that the team would be silly to publicly overtly state finishing top 4 as being the aim for the home and away season, but I really do hope that's what it is internally when guys like Roos have previously spoke about playing the kind of footy that will make us competitive in finals and push deep into September. Over the coming years as we enter that all important age/experience 'window' within our list, I really hope to see us adopt a new level of maturity, professionalism and ruthlessness that playing finals becomes an expectation and finishing top 4 and playing in premierships is the aim, not just making finals and I don't see why that shouldn't start in 2020.

Kent kick the goal that sealed us our finals birth in 2018, which was worth a good 20 or 30 goals in my book. I'll be greatful for that for a long time. Was disappointed to see him go, because I always thought he had a red hot crack when he was in the side, was unfortunately was too seldom for all concerned. Totally understandable from all parties that he left us for the Saints and also that we let him go.

It use to be that T Mac was a shoe-in to win the time trial, and he was well renound for his endurance as one of the few that could run with Nick Riewodlt in his prime. But in recent years T Mac had come back into the field at the MFC a bit. I suspect last year injury played a big part, but is it the case that ANB and others have lifted the bar or is T Mac staring to drop away a bit, or perhaps a bit of both? Interested in people's thoughts.

Understand. Hope you are wrong, but I fear you are probably right.

I don't think KK really needs development as much as he does to get over his concussion problems. Unless you are talking about him learning to better position his body and be smarter about which balls to go for like Gus Brayshaw reportedly did post his concussion problems.

I actually think both the Wagner brothers are not that far off being pretty decent, solid footballers in their respective positions. Good athleticism, reasonable skills and bucket loads of courage (thinking mostly of Josh in this respect). The things I guess that are a bit questionable about Josh in particular are his decision making and skill execution under pressure. I think players like the Wagners could probably be categorized as nearly, but not quite playing at the required standard to be regular firsts players. It's probably is these kind of players and guys like Lockhart, Spargo etc that we need to take a step up and play a role for the team when required, such that their presence in the team is seamless and helps us get those 3 or 4 more wins during the season to take us from finishing just inside the top 8 to inside the top 4. Not to say that their development can be mismanaged, but players like Jackson, Pickett and Co are probably going to be good players regardless and their talents will push them up to playing seniors where they will have plenty of opportunities to develop an understanding of what is required to play at the top level.

Post script - I think it was rather remiss of the Hun to not mention Jetta in the reasons our backline will improve. Provided he doesn't drop away as he ages, Nev would have to be right up there with the best small defenders in the comp and we missed him immensely last season. It could also be noted that we will miss some of the atletisim from Frost, but that could be more than compensated by a fit Steve May and the sounder ball movement that should result through having him and players like Jetta down back.