titan_uranus

FFS. What exactly do you expect of him? He was asked the question, he answered it, and thankfully enough he answered it honestly. Do you think anyone in the club genuinely believes that by saying things, they happen, without having to actually do something about it?

We should 100% be getting out of Darwin, even if it means a home game at Etihad. The Etihad home game thing will disappear eventually, either when the current contractual requirement for a minimum number of games there ends, or when the interstate clubs pressure the AFL into getting more games at the G given the GF deal that's been done.

Genuine question: why? How is he impacting games at the moment? When was the last time he played well in a game we lost or didn't win by a massive margin?

I know you think it would be some sort of important statement but not only is there no chance at all that we will trade our captain, it would also be a shocking move. Trading out one of the few players who bleeds for this club, with the positive media he brings (look at how the media/public reacted to his 250th), would break both the players' spirits and create unnecessary tension, pressure and negativity around the club. We can, and should, internally challenge Jones to improve his game. Some have suggested a move to the half-back flank and that might be the right call. But trading him is just complete nonsense. I agree with the bolded line, but my concern is that we're not willing and/or not able to fix the problem. It's been evident since the start of last year but in particular manifested grossly against Geelong in Round 1. 14 weeks later and we haven't made any improvements in that area. Good post. I think a small example of the problem you've identified is the continued sight we see of too many Melbourne players going to the ball carrier and opposition players sitting off the contest waiting for the handball receive. I think if we encourage the players to be slightly less concerned with getting to the ball carrier and tackling, and more concerned with watching running patterns through our zone, we'll slow down the transition against us. The other thing we need to do is work on improving how we move the ball going forward. We're A-grade at getting the ball but at the moment the way we're trying to move it from the middle to the goals is pretty poor. IMO it starts with how we set up forward of the ball. I think all 5-6 of our forwards start at bounces too high up the ground, meaning our kicks routinely are to their heads or to a pack, and there's no one leading up at the kicker. We have Hogan and TMac in our side, two forwards who excel at leading up and taking contested marks. I'd like to see us start at the centre bounce with one of them in the goal square. If we win the clearance, and we need a quick release kick inside, one of them is then able to lead up to the ball. We also need to continue to work on our mids/half-forwards lowering their eyes, and I think we need one or two small forwards to put extra pressure on the opposition when they are trying to run through our zone coming out.

Or worse, the dreaded “apologist”. Good post. Definitely agree with point 2. As to point 1, I would have disagreed pre-Queen’s Birthday. In the 6 wins we looked good with Hogan and TMac running riot in the fowars line and up the ground, with a third tall taking the ruck duties off them. However, as we continue to struggle with our inside 50s and forward pressure, I think we have to bite the bullet and go smaller, and use TMac as the second ruck. Have to agree with point 3 - Frost isn’t very good but Petty is clearly worse. As to 4, I wouldn’t be rushing Vince back. But Lewis’ disposal is getting worse and without good kicking, his value plummets towards zero. It’s a problem, that’s for sure.

Rubbish. The interstate sides play here no more than twice per year. We played at the Gabba twice per year but that doesn't give us familiarity or negate the fact that it's an away ground. Richmond are showing that the G can provide a side with a proper home ground advantage. The crowd today was 70-30 in our favour. We can, and should, have an advantage in playing 10+ games at the G per year, with only Richmond, Collingwood and maybe Hawthorn playing that many. Geelong, Carlton, Essendon play 5-7, the rest play 2.

Harmes certainly improved late, but is generally part of the problem. Spends too long failing to impact games when we're losing. Agree with Tyson, he has to go.

GWS just jumped 4 spots on the ladder (passing us, Geelong, North and Hawthorn). Essendon and Adelaide in 11th and 12th are only one win out of the 8 (and only one win behind us). This is an incredibly even season and our losses to Geelong, Port and St Kilda will cost us our finals spot.

Until today it was hard to know for sure whether our struggles at the G were because of the G itself or the teams we were playing there (Geelong, Hawthorn, Richmond, Collingwood). Given the exact same problems showed up against a bottom 4 side, the evidence now swings massively in favour of it being the G. It looks to me like it's a width problem. We press a long way up but on a wider ground that just exposes us on the flanks, and we're so slow in those areas that we can't defend the entire ground. I don't know if we can fix this in time to save the season.

6 - Gawn 5 - Fritsch 4 - Salem 3 - Hibberd 2 - Brayshaw (based on everything except those 5 or so horrendous clangers) 1 - Viney

I just read that too - incredible. It was 39% the last time we played them. It may well be as simple as the G's dimensions. We just seem to get beaten the same way every time.

Posting on this topic hours after a demoralising loss is never a good idea but whatever: In: Frost, Garlett, Spargo, Stretch Out: Tyson, ANB, Hannan, Petty Petty never should have played, so I don't buy the argument that he should get a second crack. Just accept we got it wrong and get him out. I don't like Frost and I doubt I ever will but that change just has to be made. Tyson is adding nothing to the side, complete waste of a spot. Give Stretch a go on that wing. Another player I don't like but deserves a chance. I'd then drop ANB and Hannan for Garlett and Spargo. Get some smaller, pacier forwards in. Let Hogan, TMac, Weideman and Fritsch contest in the air, and have Garlett and Spargo at their feet. But both Garlett and Spargo have to work their butts off defensively. Run, chase, tackle, pressure. We're not getting enough of any of that from ANB and Hannan and ANB in particular deserves to be dropped and to have the heat put on him.

Nor me, but with every loss in which we are beaten the precise same way, I lose more and more hope that we're ever going to "sort out some structures and ball movement".

What an absolute disgrace. Mistakes made at selection - Petty clearly not ready for AFL, no crumber, too many talls/marking forwards. We carry too many players who routinely underperform when we're losing: ANB, Harmes and Hannan are the biggest culprits. Our gameplan has been worked out. Opponents drop a number (or two) behind the ball. Our forward line becomes clogged. We win plenty of it in the middle but we continually turn it over at half-forward because we're outnumbered and there's no plan. We then can't spread fast enough on wide grounds like the G and we get exposed out the back. It's all too common and all too predictable, but Goodwin's stubbornness hasn't worked out how to fix it. We can't keep having massive inside 50 counts but failing to score and then conceding goals and scores from every second opponent entry. It's not a sustainable way of playing. I don't think we're going to win enough games to make the finals, but if we do, then we will have beaten Geelong in Geelong, Adelaide in Adelaide, West Coast in Perth or Sydney. To do that, we're going to have to have improved, quite a bit on where we are now.

We’re cooked. We can’t score with sides dropping numbers back, we’re too slow in transition, our zone doesn’t hold up on the G, we’re carrying way too many passengers (Lewis, Tyson, Petty, Petracca). We’ve been found out and against any side with a semblance of pace we can’t compete on the G.

The first 50 was there but the free kick in the first place wasn’t. The second 50 was a disgrace. But it’s the same old problems. 18 inside 50s for 4.2. They drop numbers back and just wait for us to turn it over. Hogan, Weed and TMac can’t get any separation on their man. And laziness through the middle, especially when Gawn went off.

The Dogs’ win is great for us, but ultimately it all comes down to our own performances. If we don’t win all of the next three we are in big trouble.

Good on him, hope he tears Carlton apart.

The first of three must-win games. As far as I'm concerned, they're close enough to elimination finals for us. If we're not 11-5 after Round 17, with the final 6 games we have, I don't think we're playing finals. We've approached games against the bottom sides well this year. Let's hope we're focused not just on winning, but on fixing the mistakes that crop up against the good sides. Nice to see Petty debut. Interestingly, it's not at the expense of Joel Smith, so we're adding a tall to the backline. Given that, I wouldn't be surprised if Vince is dropped to make room for Petty, with Petty to play Lever's role and J Smith to play a smaller running role, i.e. taking Vince's role. Weideman for T Smith IMO, with Pedersen only named as cover for TMac. We ought to get Spargo into the side too, and if so it will be one of Harmes or Tyson dropped (if it were up to me, I'd drop Harmes). Extend what streak? We've won the last three.

I was at the game tonight. The most noticeable thing IMO was Richmond's structures. They almost permanently left someone (often Martin or Riewoldt) deep forward. As in, within the forward 50 when the ball was at the other end of the ground. At midfield stoppages they would have 5-6 players set up well forward of the ball. It forced Sydney to keep their defenders in their backline and not up at the contest and that gave Richmond space to break away from stoppages. It was intriguing, and IMO proof that we don't necessarily need to change the rules or bring in zones to get around congestion.

Every time anyone (myself included) does a ladder predictor exercise, the thing that is commonly missing is the occasional upset win where a rubbish side knocks over a top 8 side. Just last week Essendon beat West Coast in a game possibly no one thought Essendon could win. Brisbane's 56-point win over Hawthorn remains one of the biggest WTF moments of the season. Those sorts of results are going to occur again in the run home. We might be victim to one, given everyone is simply assuming we get to 12 wins on the back of St Kilda, Fremantle, the Dogs and GC. But, of course, it only takes one or two of those sorts of upsets to the sides around us to make it that much easier for us to get in if we can get to 13. If we miss finals, it is almost certainly going to come down to our inability to take our contested possession and clearance focused game plan and make it work against high pressure sides with a number back. Not some key forward getting a hold of us.

Until we beat another side in the top 8, this question will continue to be asked. Agreed. We've had two shockers - Hawthorn and Collingwood. The Richmond game fell apart but we showed significant positive signs. We should have beaten both Geelong and Port and, had we done that, we would be equal top of the ladder without this question being asked. But we didn't win those games, and so we deal with this question and the uncertainty until we beat someone better.

Everyone is frothing over Collingwood. They've beaten Carlton (twice), St Kilda, Brisbane, Fremantle, the Dogs, Essendon, Adelaide and us. We've beaten Carlton, St Kilda, Brisbane, GC, the Dogs, Essendon, Adelaide and North. But the narrative at the moment is "Melbourne can't beat anyone good" whilst "Collingwood is more dangerous than Richmond". If we're no good then they have no wins against anyone good. At least we've beaten North!

Agreed. Very well said. At least there is a circumstance when Lewis is good. What is Vince’s? IMO, Lewis adds far more than Vince. Both have flaws which aren’t going away. But at the very least, Lewis is adding some value that we’re not getting from Vince. I genuinely don’t know what Vince is adding to the side right now. Agreed. The worst thing we can do is stubbornly back the current set up in against St Kilda and, if it goes well (and the 6 straight wins suggests it might), say “that’s how we want to play”. We’ve seen enough now to know that things need to change to beat sides in the top 8.

I’d like to see us make changes which address our flaws. We need more tackling/crumbing presence in the foward line so Garlett or Spargo should be looked at. We don’t need both Harmes and ANB, neither of whom perform in big games. Frost has no football IQ. His athleticism gets him picked and his basic, terrible mistakes get him dropped, every time. I guarantee if he is picked the gameday thread will be full of complaints about him turning it over.