titan_uranus

It's all about context. Olisik almost never posts anything positive and only pops up to pot players. So, when he does it, people get frustrated. For what reason? Do we go with two key defenders plus Lever? He may as well start every post between now and Round 1 with "0 goals to half time in a preliminary final". Feels like he's written that in every post so far. There we go. I was wondering how long it would take for your "we lost therefore we failed" attitude to return. What sort of hard/harsh decisions do you mean? Sack half the side? Sack Goodwin? Or do you mean Lewis, Jones and Tyson (all of whom would have been looked at post-2018 even if we'd won the flag)?

Yes but in the first two finals our forward pressure was ridiculously good. Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater here. Melksham's last month and first two finals were immense, Petracca this week and last week actually played well, Hannan was one of the few forwards who actually showed some pace and made some space today. Forward pressure was not our biggest problem today, by far. Our biggest problem was our midfield being belted at contested ball. We lost that count once all year, and our last four wins (and indeed all our wins) were based on winning contested ball and going from there. Losing it today put the pressure on our young side to work out what to do and how to turn it around, and we failed. Whilst we were failing to turn it around, we were unable to play the game at either end the way we are used to, and both ends failed - the defence failed to zone properly and were caught out too often because West Coast took the ball from clearances too easily and won all of the important contests, and the forwards weren't able to make an impact because the delivery to them was poor and was on West Coast's terms. Our game starts and ends with contested ball. When we're at our best (see the last four weeks) we dominate in that area and we put our opponent on the back foot. Everything flows from that. We need to be able to turn momentum through the middle within a game, and we also need to be able to adjust around the ground when we're not able to dominate at contested ball.

I was posting in response to complaints that the Demons of old failed to stand up on the big stage. Nothing to do with how I feel about the game. Fork 'em, your comment that every time there's a carrot we carp ourselves might have been true earlier this year, but after the past month is it really that big of a problem? We needed to beat West Coast in Perth to make the finals, and we did. We needed to beat GWS to earn a home final and we did. We had our season on the line against 90,000 in the Elimination Final and we won.

In the first two weeks, particularly vs Geelong when we needed to calm our early finals nerves, it was TMac who was taking those big marks. Nowhere to be seen today. Add Hogan to TMac and Weideman next year and we'll have those marking options.

This is the kind of stuff I don't get. We're just coming off two consecutive finals wins in front of 90,000+ against sides we've hardly beaten for 15 years, and you're going on about "the big stage" being the problem?

Lewis was probably our worst today. So many critical errors at critical times. But Jones was terrible, Gawn played his worst game for the year, Oliver was poor and possibly also played his worst game for the year, TMac was unsighted. Both Lewis and Jones are coming to the end and it's going to be interesting to see what we do with them in 2019.

6 - vandenberg 5 - Harmes 4 - Petracca 3 - Hibberd 2 - Salem 1 - Brayshaw

First one was a Lewis mistake. Second (or third?) was Frost's handball being fumbled by Brayshaw. Where is Tyson involved in either of those?

Agree with the sentiment. We cannot approach football by saying it's the flag or it's bust. To make a prelim after 12 years of not even being able to make the finals, to win four consecutive games against the top 8, to win two finals in front of 90,000+ against sides we traditionally lose to, all with TMac, Viney, Lever and Hogan missing 5+ games each this year, makes this season a resounding success.Obviously we had our chance this year and we don't just automatically get that chance again next year, but we cannot simply write off all of the amazing positives this year gave us because of today.

That happened again today but it was nothing like those other earlier losses. In those early games we dominated possession through the middle, dominated clearances and CPs, turned those into a dominance of inside 50s, but failed to score. Today we couldn't get our hands on the ball. The only reason we won the inside 50 count is because West Coast took their foot off the pedal in the second half.

Absolutely gutted. It's not that we lost, it's how. We lost the CP count once all year, but we were hammered in CPs from the opening bounce. We laid at least 50 tackles in every game this year, but today just 34. We haven't played like that all year. It was just so un-Melbourne and that is what is so demoralising, we didn't even put our best foot forward. During the first quarter we were trying so hard to keep our head above water and stay close to them, but all four of their goals came from appalling turnovers. We were missing targets under their pressure and we just never settled. Then in the second quarter we couldn't even get our hands on the ball. It was one of those days where everything went right for them (smothers would end up in their hands, the bounce of the ball seemed to always go their way, Nicholls doesn't reverse the 50 when McGovern throat-punches Viney), but that largely happens when one side works harder than the other. Trying to work out why this happened is the harder bit. I'm sure part of it is fatigue. Not just the fact that it's the end of a long season and we're fielding a young side, but as has been mentioned we've been playing finals effectively for 6 weeks, since the first West Coast game. We won 4 in a row but to win 5 or 6 in a row is hard enough at the best of times, let alone all against finals sides. There's nothing we can do now but learn from our mistakes and focus on what needs to be improved: not just based on today's loss, but based on the entire season.

Unbelievable. Literally losing every facet of the game. The old Melbourne is back - too many at the ball, losing inside, losing outside, not tackling, dropping our heads. Aim from here has to be to win the half, at least restore some pride and undo some of the paychological damage this game will cause if it keeps going this way.

Disastrous. All 4 goals from turnovers. Can’t hit a target. Belted in CPs. Nothing going right.

Indeed that is true, in fact ours was probably softer, but we won an extra game against a top 8 side, and have won two more since, such that even if we lose tomorrow, we'll still have a better record against the top 8 than Collingwood does. They got a double chance by going 14-0 against the bottom 10.

I reckon that's unfair. We haven't played yet and we still have more wins against top 8 sides so far this season than Collingwood does. They got into the finals on the back of a draw which gave them 14 games against the bottom 10. Full credit to them for making a Grand Final with the injuries they've had, but going the "well I always said they were good" route is unfair when the criticism of them was completely warranted given their record.

The pre-finals bye will be looked at, but Richmond's last month going into the finals wasn't great. 3 point win over Geelong, 8 point win over Essendon and a 3 point win over the Dogs (which they should have lost), around a thrashing of GC. He's good, not great, and he had an appalling night. For someone of his ability, that wasn't good enough.

There was so much hype about it filling up and being a lock-out that I reckon a lot of people were scared off. If we make it next week though...

As a positive, if we do win tomorrow, we'll get to play the GF out of our home rooms (we share with Richmond, Collingwood share with Hawthorn, so if Richmond had won we would have had to play out of the other rooms).

West Coast beat Collingwood at the G earlier this year.

Rance whinging for free kicks with 3 minutes to go. The game's biggest [censored] and IMO one of its most over-rated players.

Richmond finished 13th in 2016, their supporters wanted Hardwick gone but they kept him, premiership 2017. Collingwood finished 13th in 2017, their supporters wanted Buckley gone but they kept him...2018?

Got to beat West Coast first. If we do, Frost will likely have done a good job on Kennedy. And we didn't have Frost on Queen's Birthday. Cox was also putrid against West Coast and GWS. He got his confidence up early but keep him quiet early and he's back to being a giraffe. It's feast or famine with him.

Martin 18 disposals, 2 marks, 1 tackle, no score. Caddy 10 disposals, 1 mark, 3 tackles, no score. Edwards 10 disposals, 0 marks, 4 tackles, no score. Castagna 6 disposals, 2 marks, 2 tackles, no score. Cotchin's had 23 but how many turnovers? Rance was flogged by De Goey and Cox early. Nobody saw this coming.

Was getting excited at 21 points at the prospect of Collingwood losing from 53 points up, but then reality hit and the game's over now. A satisfying way to watch Richmond's hubris come crashing down, but I still cannot stand the concept of the 2018 Collingwood being in the Grand Final. It just feels wrong.

If Collingwood win, it'll be 2-3 (in favour of sides who play in the semi finals) in prelims since they brought the bye in. Even if West Coast beat us, and it's 3-3, that's a 50% fail rate for top 4 sides who win their first final in the prelim since they brought the bye in. From 2006-2015 only once side did it (Hawthorn in 2015). Don't jinx anything! Their constant mantra of trying to keep the ball in motion looks terrible when it doesn't work. Lots of players not wanting to put their head over the ball and get the contested ball and instead just tap it forward or kick it forward because usually that works, but it looks silly when those taps forward just go to Collingwood players.