Mazer Rackham

Standing up to the AFL. That would just like the time when ...... um,,, or just like that other time when ..... Hmm. Never mind.

As I said, we only know one fact: he hasn't signed. Of course we want to keep him. That's why this thread is 116 pages long. But if it's more likely than not that he leaves, it's more likely than not that we will be holding our wangs while we watch him strut his stuff for the Eagles. For pitiful compensation. Unless we force his hand now one way or another.

With a player as prominent as Hogan, it would not have made any difference.

And Brock McLean and Col Sylvia were told to get their mother-f***ing @rses out of the joint. They're all family related.

We don't know any facts except for the one that he hasn't signed. More than likely he will leave? Then a professional organisation will maximise their position. The longer we leave it, the worse our negotiating position is. That is one other fact we know.

That may well strike a chord with Jesse but do not forget, three is a MANAGER involved. These MANAGERS have a way of being hard-@rsed, screwing clubs over, and going for the $$$$$ To them, "compassion" sounds like a kind of cheesecake you get at a fancy bistro.

I think it is possible to be too touchy-feely. We treated Mitch Clark with kid gloves, and it was right at the time, only to be kicked in the nuts by him as he waltzed off to a completely different environment for his health another AFL club. At the end of the day, these guys are professionals (highly paid, etc), and if it's too much for them, they are free to change professions and become a photographer or whatever floats their boat. Remember Steve Harmison, the England fast bowler who terrorized us in the 2007 Ashes? Then he came out to Oz and could barely put it on the deck. Due to personal issues going on at the same time. Basically he didn't want to be there. What use is it putting him, or anyone, on the park if he doesn't want to be there? Doesn't do him or the team any good. Having said that, all the signs are that Hogan doesn't want to play with us. We've got a Scully/Frawley situation staring us in the face and we can't see for the looking. Trade him now while we can get something back.

Can we get him to have a chat to Hogan?

I reckon you're on the money here, Red. Agree. Once this trade period is past, every minute that goes by without him signing, our position worsens. Our only hope of keeping him now, IMO, is to have a slashing season next year. But the endless speculation, and it will be endless, will only serve to disrupt, and that does not bode well for the team as a whole.

These ones bat them into the crowd.

That might not be the only thing you don't understand

I love to have a beer with Melksham I love to have a beer with Jake We drink in moderation After three pots he can't stay awake We drink at the Leighoak pokies Where the atmosphere is great I love to have a beer with Melksham Coz he's my team mate I love to have a beer with Bernie I love to have a beer with Vince We drink in moderation We got drunk once but never since We drink at the Leighoak pokies Where the atmosphere is great I love to have a beer with Bernie Coz he's my team mate I love to have a beer with Wattsy I love to have a beer with Jack We drink in moderation Only beers though he prefers cognac We drink at the Leighoak pokies Where the atmosphere is great I love to have a beer with Wattsy Coz he's my team mate

Tea 'sparks fight' on online message forum

We don't, but some performance enhancing substances can have dramatic side effects.

Player agents, eh? Those lovable scamps. That reminds me of a well known agent of a well known player. November 25, 2012: Superstar Lance Franklin will stay at Hawthorn, his manager says "We'll get it done with Hawthorn, don't even worry about that," Pickering said on SEN yesterday. "Let's be honest, every club would want Buddy. But he will stay with Hawthorn. It will all be sorted." March 5, 2013: AFL slams reports of Buddy push to GWS Franklin's manager Liam Pickering has denied he has taken offers from opposition clubs, but the reported asking price for Franklin's services would be in excess of $1 million a season. July 6, 2013: Lance Franklin's manager Liam Pickering says Hawks star highly likely to resist lure of GWS "To be honest, there's only really one in it, which is Hawthorn,'' Pickering told SEN Radio. August 26, 2013: Franklin wants to stay a Hawk "I would have thought if you're a betting man, you'd still be pretty confident he's staying at Hawthorn," Pickering said.

Little known fact. In the media world, esp "print" media, single quote marks in the headline (as opposed to double quotes ... ' ' vs "" ) means the person didn't really say it, and a subeditor paraphrased, sometimes very loosely, what the person actually said. A convention made up by and for the media and passed into standard usage without anyone being any the wiser.

I like him just the way he is.

I don't pretend to know anything about Hogan staying or going. (I hope he stays. He is valuable.) But I wouldn't read anything into the comments from WCE. The trade period business is very cloak and dagger for some clubs. It could in fact be a message to current WCE players that they are trade bait if they don't pull up their socks. Or he might be trying to force Freo into offering a higher price because they both have their eye on another player elsewhere, and want to stuff it up for Freo. Or Hogan's manager might be mates and told him to say it just to stir up MFC. Lots of strange and underhand goings on over the years ... as they say, lying is the second language of the AFL.

If it achieved nothing else, the saga exposed our national hypocrisy when it comes to drugs in sport. The Russian athletes should have changed their nationalities to Aussie, that would have saved their bacon. The whole world knows Aussies don't cheat. (Don't they?????)

I reckon there was a very early impulse to "head em off at the pass", which largely succeeded in setting the agenda. A known EFC supporter in charge of the Herald Sun, a number of EFC supporting individuals in various media, certain red faced buffoons with a voice, all promoting that the sports scientist went rogue, the players were duped, etc, which mostly stuck. One prominent individual who is an EFC supporter and somehow counts as a journo, ended up on the payroll of the Essendon lawyers, advising them! I wonder if the "advice" was actually in the other direction. Not to mention media accreditations that can be renewed or annulled at the whim of the emperor.

I don't excuse them, they are guilty. As a group, they knew there was monkey business of some kind, and decided to cover it up. Just trying to explain the dilemma of a new player trying to reconcile his ASADA lectures with what Jobe & co were doing. (In this case Jobe & co won out, but it's easy to imagine the cognitive dissonance of trying to straighten it out in your head.)

Bear in mind that it is really their older, more worldly managers who are doing the saying. IMaybe you can recall old stories of awe-struck players being recruited literally for 10 pounds, 3 pelaco shirts and a slab for the old man. Players won't have changed. It's the system that's changed. Players no longer get diddled by clubs, and it's because of the player managers who have no fear of telling clubs to stick deals up their jacksies. Nonetheless the managers can't be with them 24/7. It's easy to see a wet behind the ears recruit, who doesn't know what's normal and what's not, going along with the other players and lining up for his stomach jabs. As elsewhere mentioned, the really culpable ones are the ones who had been in the system to know "something" was going on, who had the experience and the clout to make waves, and lined up for their jabs anyway.

Yes. He either signs or we trade him, this trade period. It is untenable to carry on through next year dancing the Scully dance. Once bitten twice shy.

Unfortunately yes, and this same discussion will be going on for Crameri and the others who changed clubs. The players, no matter what they do from here, and for which club, will always have an asterisk next to their names. The damage EFC have done is far reaching and will take years to fade away.

Another match with rampant throwing. It boggles the mind how the umps dept can't work out that having been so red hot on calling frees for anything remotely resembling deliberate out of bounds, that the same approach would work for throwing. As in, if it's not absolutely a clear cut handball, call it as a throw. Then watch as throwing is eradicated in less than one round. Why they decided they needed to crack down on this "scourge" of deliberate OOB when we routinely have throwing, short kicks, and holding off the ball on a weekly basis beats me.