fr_ap

You guys do realise the Guernsey with the state and T in the middle is not the home & away Guernsey don't you? This is a heritage one they'll wear a couple of times a year....the home & away kits are yet to be revealed. No one seems to know this

No idea why we didn't look at him. He's almost St Kilda's best player already

Wary of the dogs. Middle of the Rd last few years yes....but this is what they do. Putter around mid table for years then have one year out of the box where they are nigh-unbeatable. Their midfield depth looks significantly better with Sanders (who is a gun) and Harmes - I still would rather him playing for us rather than them. Down back they do look a little green, so we need our forwards to fire. Don't underestimate them - have similar weapons to us really

I agree - but he could be Carey, and isn't...quite

He actually could be so much better. He's got very little craft or tact - he's all athleticism, footy IQ and skill. Obviously still enough to be just about the best forward in the comp but if you watch closely there's a lot he doesn't quite do that well

Even though it was introduced in our flag year, I think the stand rule ushered in a new era of ball movement in the afl. It has become very clear that if you could load your back half and midfield with accurate kickers who are fleet of foot, you can effectively march the ball down the field uncontested. Sydney did this very well on Thursday. I think it has drastically reduced the importance of strong contest teams - us and the Bulldogs of '21 - honestly, if you can find a mark and then play with speed, you can get the ball to goal without ever encountering something close to a contest. It feels to me - not sure if the numbers bear this out - that both the absolute number of important contests, and the relative importance of those contests to scoring and defending - has reduced in recent years, and the teams that are trending up aren't necessarily the best contest teams, but ball movement/kick-mark/risk teams with kickers and athletes. We are for the most part, old school - brute, brawn, accumulate in the middle, slow/intercepting down back, weight up numbers up forward. Players like Lever in particular are a bit of a fish out of water in the modern game, unfortunately. We lack speed, we lack skill (comparably) - which was not the way the game trended as we built this list in the lead up to 21. No coincidence imo that the dogs also fell away post '21. Our confidence carried us far in '22 and even last year, but it feels to me watching other games that it is just trending away from our strengths. Recent recruiting and selection I think somewhat confirms this. Taylor Publicly went for "the two best kicks" in '21 (bowey and Laurie - both not necessarily strong contest players at those picks), they've fast tracked McVee who is a rare modern player on our setup, and this year picked Windsor (speed) and Tholstrup (explosive). It feels obvious really when you look at it. Our best players are contest winners, brutes. There are few players you'd back more to win contests than Viney, Petracca, Oliver, Gus, May, Gawn. But most people wouldn't describe any of them as overtly skilful. We all lament how hard our goals seem to be - that's because its who we are. We don't have Nick Blakey to zig his way around 4 layers of the zone defence in one run and then deft one around the corner to a free man at 35. He was literally responsible for about 6 goals on Thursday. Who are the other top sides best players? Daicos X 2, Pendlebury, De Goey, Quaynor, Moore, Hill, Elliott. Kelly, Whitfield, Ash, Coniglio, Daniels, Greene *2, Taylor Neale, Mcclugage, Coleman, Cameron, Zorko, Rayner Blakey, Heeney, Papley, Warner, Gulden, Lloyd Every team has a slightly different profile but other than Kossie, Fritsch who are forwards and on his best days Salem, it just doesn't feel like we have the same mass of skilful line breaking X Factor players that the modern game is rewarding. Certainly not behind the ball. Carlton are an interesting watch as they are built in our image - but not many teams have 2 different Coleman medal winners up forward. Now clearly we've still had a lot of success over the last few years since the stand rule. That's largely because our contest is so good, we're still going to beat most teams outside the top 4. So contest is still important - but I think at the very top level, slightly less important to be good at that than it is to good at moving the ball. I'm not blaming any external factor here - the game is always changing - but ultimately we have a pretty dogmatic coach stuck in a bit of a bygone era and a list built for a slightly different time. This was longer than intended, apologies

Literally stopped mid-stoppage with the play still evolving around him, to complain to the umps. Not a great look

We'll never know, but I don't think Bedford would have developed further in our system. This is a team and a style that suits him and sometimes you need the upheaval - city, colleagues, environment - to take yourself to the next level. He chose to leave and there wasn't a lot we could do to make him stay. Wish him nothing but success

With Gus' list spot likely to be taken via an additional pick at the mid season draft (?), could Roan Steele get a look in? Has always impressed me - has composure by the bucket load and seems to consistently be a player who gets them going when they're down

Generally agree. Also thinking back to the language around trade period about the club asking Clarry to buy (back?) into standards. Yes he now appears to have done that - but I wouldn't be against it if they feel he needs to show it for longer to earn the privilege of playing. I don't love the overall message either to him or his teammates that he returned to training all of 3/4 weeks ago and is now an automatic selection despite his prior (alleged) indiscretions, whatever they were or are - all we know is he wasn't adhering to standards. Best thing for him, and us, may be to hold him back. Take the time, right the ship and demonstrate its on a very stable footing before re-entering the fray.

ANB is a champion player & human. Steadily improved himself, worked on his deficiencies, and did his time in the VFL no complaints until he absolutely smashed the door down & couldn't be left out of the side. Not the perfect player but gives the most consistent effort of anyone in our team, without being an emotionally charged yo-yo like some others. Level-headed, self-aware, leadership in spades & consistent effort/attitude - you really cant ask for more. One of those guys who probably won't be fully recognised until he hangs them up.

That was a very promising display against a team I rate highly. Truthfully they didn't look like scoring and only did when they munged it to their two key forwards. After fretting about the midfield depth all summer i liked the different looks in there with Salem and Koz. Tide turned every time Gawn is off the ground - quite amazing how much he controls our fortunes.

Jane, I think I speak for everyone when I say we feel your anger, rage and devastation. It makes my blood boil too everytime I think about it. Know this though - the outpouring of emotion, admiration and community wide respect for Angus today has been outstanding. He's an amazing guy who has the right values, and today leaves a legacy and a mark on the game that is being lauded far and wide. His life will be full for all his days because of it. He will have every avenue of life (other than football) open to him because people support good people. If and when Maynard retires, he will not enjoy a morsel of what Gus has experienced today. Maynard will be remembered fondly by a small number of slack jawed yokels, but otherwise does not and will never have the respect of his peers or the general public. It is easy to see that opposition players already don't respect him, and haven't for years. His post-footy opportunities will be limited by this. The richness and fullness of his life over the long term will be limited by this. We talk about the karma bus - this is what it truly looks like. It's not him copping an injury, or a suspension, or losing an important game - it's the long, slow, day-by-day realisation that he could have been better, and wasn't. Regret and emptiness will be his prize at the end. As for his premiership medal - flags aren't about that. They're about fulfilment, mateship and a sense of accomplishment - and his will always have an asterisk against it. Not in my view, but I can say with some certainty in his own mind. Anyone who has ever felt white line fever will watch that incident and can tell he bumped with intent. Ultimately he won some footy stuff, but left a body behind and lied on the (kangaroo) stand to get it. That's not fulfilment.

I can see how it would come across as gloating, but it's not. I'm simply making the point again, as every prior time was shot down or disregarded. Not sure why I feel the need to bang my head against the wall, but I'm passionate about the club and our fortunes. And therein lies the disagreement. At risk of starting a debate I really don't want to have (as it's been done to death over the last 2 years), in the case of loading the 'reason' you use to explain our performances has not been proven. Until it is factual, I consider it an excuse. I'm not alone in this view. As for not screaming sincerity - interpret my comments however you like. Respecting your contribution means I respect the effort, time, and devotion you have to exploring the topics, which is clear and cannot be doubted. That doesn't mean I will agree with all your findings. The only 14 year old right now is the one incapable of understanding the distinction between respecting someone, and agreeing with everything they say. I apologise for drawing you into this as it was unnecessary. The original quip about your post length being a leading indicator of the Dees was in jest. Clearly no one would actually think the length of your posts has anything to do with our performance. It was a joke and one I thought you would have the self awareness to laugh at. I didn't need to follow this up with the further critique once WCW had inflamed things. I have no beef with you whatsoever, I just disagree with some of your opinions/analysis. You started this debate. My comments about our prospects/round zero had nothing to do with you. Says a lot that you'd opt out as soon as you're taken to task.

And you call me rude. Here's an idea...mind your own business. I am just as devoted a fan as you are, despite our different perspectives. I'm looking forward to the trip & game regardless of the result. I wouldn't ever tell you not to do something you're looking forward to. Acknowledging the challenges in front of us is not sooking. Discussing those challenges in a thread specifically about them is relevant. Mentioning that some of us saw the same challenges a few months ago is also relevant. Sorry if it's a touchy subject. If you don't like what other people have to say, stay off the internet. I respect what you bring to the forum, all you do for the the club and your positivity. The club needs all of that. It also needs others who will put it under pressure when required. Some threads, like training updates that you contribute to, are fun and optimistic. Other threads like this are to discuss what isn't, or might not be going quite as well. Likewise, I genuinely respect Binman's contributions and devotion. But I don't always agree with it, and think particularly when we lose there are some pretty amazing mental gymnastics on show trying to justify, excuse or explain away what are very simply, poor performances or better opposition teams. I'm pretty sure I saw the "loading" excuse trotted out in 2nd quarter on Sunday. In a practise match. In February. That same excuse will probably be used in rounds 1, 3, 5, 7, 10, 13, 15, 17, 19 and 21. I don't agree with it. It's tiresome. Strong clubs don't look for excuses and don't make apologies - they own it, like Trac did in the recent podcast. We did this under Roos and from all accounts, did this in early 2021 when the players took ownership. Our club needs more of that, not more excuses or long-winded explanations that blame the faceless fitness gods or the incredible improbability of losing a final with double the number of inside 50s.

There were several of us calling out the warning signs some time ago. The media are now jumping on board, and it's hard not to. There is little about our present situation that bodes well, leaving the usual apologists quick to point out our 3 consecutive top 4 finishes. They were nice, but are ultimately irrelevant to this year, especially when the bottom has fallen out of the list depth-wise and we had the worst cultural offseason we've had since pre-Roos. There are certainly several things to be concerned about, whether you like Lloyd or agree with him or not. I respect Binman's analysis, but the length of his posts has direct predictive correlation to our fortunes. The worse things look, the longer his posts get. There were some particularly lengthy ones in Sunday's post match thread, and I have a feeling we're going to be reading some even longer ones before this year is up. I have tickets and am flying up, but I think round zero in Sydney could actually be pretty nasty. Could very well set the tone for the year.

Let's hope so!

Wouldn't be holding my breath for a better showing against Carlton, who from all reports have had just about the best pre season in the history of the sport. Could actually be a bit ugly Looking forward to heading down to the old Optus Oval and missing a quarter waiting for my $26 souvlaki

Agree - thought Howes was awful. Not a defender and conceded something like 8 (?) goals to his direct opponents. Thought we were very poor overall. Have some concerns we are trying to evolve the gamestyle to match the Collingwood trend but there is a key difference - we don't have their level of instinctive skill or the swell of the crowd to infer pressure on the opposition. Mid and small defenders are an issue for me. Bowey is not really progressing and is a liability in most contests. Howes - see above. McVee looked very 2nd rate today and played lazy footy offensively and defensively. Not sure if anyone sat behind the goals right of the camera...but two [censored] almost came to blows several times and were teeing off with expletives and insults despite a litany of kids running around. All over....someone blocking their view. One demon one tiger - both absolute deadbeat muppets. Made me wonder why I missed footy when I see that demographic and basically escorted my two little kids away from the area. At a practise match family day...please.

Thanks, needed that reminder

I thought Windsor was quite tall. Was Judd really 5cm taller? Seems a lot and I don't recall him being overly tall

Didn't mean to start anything on Schache...my comment actually wasn't in reference to anything that happened last year. What happened happened and couldn't have happened any other way. Rather, I was only hypothesizing on how we can use him this year. We wouldn't like it if the playing group were still fixated on last year. So let's all move forward shall we?

Dee fault

Honestly I can see a version of events where Schache plays a lot this year. I have always been critical of his contest and mongrel and can't see that changing - and he could maybe be a liability in a final for that reason. But he has the height, skills and goal kicking ability our forward line needs. He's not a small body. He can chop out max reasonably well and is a good field kick whilst he plays ruck. If Petty spends the year injured and in/out of the side, I can see JVR being the bash crash forward and Schache being the more skilful one. They play together pretty well at Casey. Could happen imo....

A large part of wingplay is understanding defensive positioning and being able to hold your own in defensive contests. If the attacking side comes more naturally to him, it could be that Howes training with the backline is for the benefit of his wingplay rather than as an out-and-out half back. If he could add that string to his bow with his height, it would make him a valuable player. Imo whilst Langdon/Hunter are solid in the contest and positionally sound, imo we've lacked a defensive winger with height since Brayshaw moved to other roles.