mo64

Maybe it has coincided with the fact that Brisbane and Sydney no longer have 1st crack at their local players. It's handy when you can pick up the likes of Voss, Akermanis, Ashcroft and Charman for next to nothing (and they almost got Reiwoldt). Also, I think the additional allowance they received on their salary cap for player retention has been scrapped.

Congratulation High Tower, you are the only person who knows how to spell Schwarz (no effing T). We were close in 1994. Unfortunately towards the end of the 3rd quarter of the semi final against Footscray, Lyon and Schwarz collided, resulting in Lyon going off with a leg injury after kicking 10, and Schwarz having concussion. Both were doubtful of playing against the Eagles the following week. The most depressing part of 1998 prelim against North Melbourne was watching a clearly injured Lyon really struggle. He dropped a simple mark in the last quarter when on his own, and it was obvious that his back was stuffed. We were a chance that night, but things didn't go our way.

I actually agree that the current football administration didn't want to bottom out, that's why they pursued Judd. And I agree with your sentiments regarding the keys to winning a premiership, except that you forgot to include "luck", which is a big factor. Our downward spiral occurred when Daniher adopted a "run and carry" game plan in 2007. It was obvious to all and sundry that it didn't work with the list we had, so Daniher was duly dumped. Bailey comes in and adopts the same game plan with the same list, and we played a brand of football that was as excruciating to watch as I've ever seen, and without fight. That's the issue I have with the current football dept, and I won't accept the "bottoming out" argument as a crutch for our inept displays.

Question no.1: Do you think Melbourne have a strong enough list to win the Premiership in 2007? (Assuming the side isn't cut down too badly by injuries) Your response. Yes Is this the same 2006 list that you've been lambasting over the past 6 months?

Well, well, well. Interesting to read Rhino's comments. I'd like to see how he gets out of this. "We are in the mix this year definitely and with the right confluence of events could seriously challenge for it. IMO a Grand Final berth is not out of the question. Its easy to be negative and apply the blow torch to your own team (more so than others). I prefer to rationally assess and see the opportunity and I think it is closer than many give credit."

No I haven't, but if you save all the PMs you've sent, you'll find it.

I agree, but if our list was such a train wreck after 2007 as many espouse, why would you forego 3 high draft choices, if you believe that success was 3 years down the track? That's not the actions of a side that's bottoming out. Would our list be any better in your eyes with Judd minus Morton, Grimes and Maric? I don't believe that the current football dept. deemed that our list was a train wreck, simple as that.

Well Rhino, you were the moderator that sent me a PM saying that it was a club request, so maybe you were just playing God again, and took it upon yourself to act on the club's behalf. And since when is a player's injury status confidential information?

Ha, ha You can't answer the question, can you? Why pursue Chris Judd?

To all those that believe that we started our "bottoming out" process after 2007, then answer this: Why did the current football administration (not Daniher) pursue Chris Judd at a cost in real terms of 3 high draft picks (Morton, Grimes, Maric)? I can just imagine our sales pitch to Judd, "Well Chris, we'll be bottoming out for the next 3 years and we wan't you to be part of our exciting future". Bottoming out, my arse!!!!!

Do you know this to be fact, or just guessing?

It's ironic that the club discloses the fact that most are fit, yet when I wanted to know the injury status of our players during our last preseason, my post was closed by the moderators at the request of the club.

In addition to the 6 wins, how many narrow defeats did we have last year? This year we were competitive on the scoreboard in 2 1/2 games, with one of those against a side that didn't try (WCE). Jeez I'd love a coaching job where you accept no blame for what transpires under your tutelage. The facts are that we were uncompetitive with a list that was competitive in the years prior.

You obviously didn't read the article. Roos stated that clubs aren't given enough credit for making the finals, and you for one have been critical of our sides from 2004-2006. As he states, there is no formula to winning a premiership, but you have to make the finals to have a chance. You watch, clubs like Carlton and Richmond will receive higher praise during the off-season despite missing than finals, than the likes of Adelaide, Kangaroos, Sydney, and the WBD. Armchair experts like yourself will say that they need a cleanout of the players that won't attain them the ultimate prize. According to Roos, this is folly. We are only in a bottoming out stage because Bailey was unable to get anything out of the experienced players, all of whom had played regularly in the finals. That's what caused the train wreck, not the previous administration.

Of course 2 experienced players will make a difference in the next 2 years. Our off-field success is dependent on winning games. Show me an example since the induction of the draft, where a team won a flag after bottoming out for 3 years?

So our next 3 years aren't important? We won't have a future if we continue in the same fashion as this year. I suggest that people on this forum read what Paul Roos has to say, in a Caroline Wilson article, about bottoming out. There is no set formula to winning a premiership, and there is no evidence to suggest that bottoming out is a sure fire way of achieving premiership success. All it does is give you financial grief.

Spot on Nasher. Which is why it annoys the crap out of me when posters make statements like "He'll never be a premiership player" or "How many Melbourne players would get a game at so and so?". It's the elite players that make premiership teams, and any player is capable of playing in one if they can play a role in support of the champions.

Sure, player manager's might leak something to the media, but football forums, give me a break. I always thought that Yze_Magic was actually Cam Bruce's player manager. As for Warnock, if 2 clubs have agreed to his contractual demands, what the club has to offer as trade could be the deal breaker, and that comes down to the player's conscience or the ethics of the player manager.

The talk of Prismall wanting out of Geelong is purely forum speculation. The same crap was thrown up last year. And talk that Warnock wants to come to the MFC is again speculation. There is more than one club after him, and if say Carlton, is prepared to give up their 2nd round pick for him, whilst we're trying to get him to nominate for the PSD, his conscience and ego may sway him to Carlton. Also, player manager's don't like to get offside with the clubs. Never underestimate a sportspersons precious ego!!!!

Neither Warnock or Prismall have been screwed by their current clubs, so it wouldn't show much character in the person if they in turn screwed their clubs by nominating for the PSD. Offering a token 4th or 5th round pick could be construed by the player as a demeaning offer, and a lack of respect of the player's talent. I think that Geelong will keep Prismall, and use Lonergan as an example of fighting your way back from adversity. Also, there's no suggesting that he actually wants to leave.

Thanks for the info Haydo. I was interested in your comments about trading Bruce, and Green's negotiations being stalled. Logically, you'd trade a contracted player (Bruce), because there's no threat of him walking out on the club, and going into the PSD. He'd also have greater currency than Green, though I don't like the idea of paying part of his salary next year. Is there any talk of Green being put on the trade table?

I really felt sorry for Nathan Jones this year. You could see that he was trying to look for the best option whenever he got the ball, but invariably the only option was a poor one in his mind. He quite often got caught because he was trying to do the "team thing" rather than following his natural instincts. His disposal is actually quite good, but was made to look bad because he was indecisive. IMO, that wasn't his fault. He's a quality player who's name shouldn't be brought up in trade discussions.

So Carlton spending 4 out of 5 years in the bottom 2 is fast tracking? After 2006, I would have preferred us to have taken the course that clubs like Geelong, Sydney, Adelaide and North Melbourne did, which was replenish via astute drafting/trading, rather than bottom out.

No major sponsor and a reduction of corporate sales will far outweigh any penny-pinching that we might do within administration and the football dept.

This suggestion has absolutely no merit!!! Carlton have received 3 consecutive no. 1 draftees plus Stevens & Judd, and still can't make the finals. They've fast-tracked to where? As Paul Roos stated in a Caroline Wilson article on Wednesday, "there is no blueprint for winning a grand final". And he scoffs at teams that bottom out.