Bedraggled Dee

I agree, the fact that wowoedin won a brownlow while using Charter only rasies the eye brow slightly higher. If I was a supicious man (which I am) I would look at Hirds career with a level of scepticism (which I do) and wonder what was used while the ASADA/WADA regime was in its infancy compared to the available science.

Hirds attitude makes me wonder about his playing career. the Bumbers confirmed he used Shane Charter as his advisor during 2003 and 2004. The evidence of the ASADA investigation suggests that Hird has no problems with the injection of supplements and peptides etc, I mean he did it himself during 2012. Just to be clear Charter is reportedly a crook and was involved wth illegal drugs when Hird was associated with him and allegedly associated to organised crime persons. Why would Hird use Charter in the early 2000's? He had access to a miriad of club medical and support staff within the club who could advise and prescribe anything legitimately required. The only conclusion is that Charter offered Hird something that the club could not or would not provide. If you look at Hirds attitude to supplements together with his associations during his playing career and his steadfast belief he has done nothing wrong, I would say there is enough information to at least raise an eyebrow over his activities during his playing career. The Bombers have shown themselves to be morally corrupt and unable to put the interests of the Club, the players and the AFL above that of the golden boy. WTF was Little thinking asking the players??? This is his decision they not in a position to make the clinical decsions that he is paid to make. The club is in more shyte than a werribee duck. They have painted themselves into a corner where they canot get rid of Hird for a number of reasons and keeping Hird has is increasingly untenable and will continue to trash the EFC and AFL brands. I want this bloke out of football and hope ASADA and WADA come down on him like a ton of bricks.

We dont currently have superstar, the closest is Jonesy wo is probably tapping on the door. I think Clark could have been but I doubt we will see him again. Hogan and Howe have potential and who knows about Salem and JKH. I thought Watts game on the weekend was excellent so who knows we may get some return out of him. Very sad state of affairs.

I agree, Dunny was in the top 2 or 3 on the weekend and is a key player in the backline. I now Frawley is an all Australian but Dunn is equally important, some of his delivery during the switch was outstanding we just found it hard to capitalise. We cant afford to loose either Dunn, Frawley, Garland or T-Mac. That is a defence that could take us to finals.

From my readng of the code Point 1. Yep, they are gone if it can be shown to the satisfaction of the panel they took banned substances regardless of the absence of a positive test. Point 2. Yep they are gone. The responsbility is placed on the athelete. It is written that way for a very good reason. I dont believe that everyone was given or can be shown to have taken the same substances so therefore any infractions will be specific to individuals and based on the available evidence. AOD is banned and was banned during 2012 but from what I have read I dont believe that any of the breaches in Danks show cause letter refer to the use of AOD. I cant prove it but my opinion (which is not really worth much) is that use of AOD wont be pursued. the infractions will come to those players where evidence exists they used Hexaralin or Thymonsin Beta 4 which unlike AOD are on the banned lists even if the players were not given specific details of what they were receiving.

The Hirds have successfully alienated themselves from all possible support, the EFC, the AFL, other clubs and presidents and the fan base aside from a few rabid morons. In fact his intransigence paints a picture of competition and a club that belives it is above the rules especially when you view it from the context of WADA and the response of other sports similar situations. It wont help ASADA and the AFL convince WADA that lesser penalties for players are appropriate. Once he gets the chop I cant see Hird going quietly and would not be surprised if he takes all and sundry through the courts especially if he gets an infraction notice. Little has been a fool throughout the whole saga and has already cost his club a significant amount of money that is likely to explode. Make me glad the Mclardy was able to get us out of the tanking investigation relativley unscathed. This club owes cuddles a fair bit I recon.

If little and the Bummers dont cut Hird loose they deserve everything they get. Hird is a cmplete liability. The problem for the Club is Hird will take them to the cleaners. He professes love for the club then does the exact opposite unless you accept his delusion that what is good for Hirdy is good for the club.

Is it possible that Hird and Co are preparing thier defence? They have spent the las 18 months dicreditiing the process and the fairness of the investigation. I recon their defence to any charges will be justhat. It will then be irrelevant what the players were given because the evidence may be found to be flawed and therefore unable to stand up in court. This bloke should be run out of the game. In hindsight I recon the AFL shoul have stood back and let everything unfold and if that meant a Melbourne Storm scenario at the conclusion then so be it. They have tried to control the issue and may as a result have handed Hird a defence.

Dont know what the situation is with Mitch but he has suffered phyiscal and in all probability mental injuries as a direct result of his employment as an AFL player. He and everyone on this forum should expect the MFC to behave as any other well managed and operated business would and take responsibility for the problems Mitch is now experiencing and support him through the remainder of his time at the club in accordance with workcover and the clubs contractual obligations. How much he earns and how few games he has managed for the club is irrelevant. Mental health and salaries are agnostic to each other. If as some on here suggest he was sacked I would expect he and the AFLPA to take legal action against the club. No one is allowed to sack employees for injuries they they have received as a result of there employment.

Poor excuse for a leader this bloke. The AFL was too scared to do the right thing and chuck him out if the sport last year. They will be well rid of him and his crony's once the ASADA investigation is completed and the hammer blow falls. I cant see how the AFL can allow this irresponsible lunatic to be placed back in charge of young peoples mental and physical well being regardless of the outcome of the ASADA thing.

Rubbish, I thought he was good against the Tigers and good aganst the Cats. His delivery inside 50 has been outstanding. He has been a star in the training I have gone to and also showed a bit in the intraclub games. He has been in the top dozen players in this club during the preseason by any measure. His game against the Hawks was ordinary but he was not on his own there, they were unbelievable. You need to pull your head in and have a listen to Roos speech at the season launch. If you are expecting BOG efforts by our first and second year players you will spend you spend you life a very disappointed person. Good on Ollie Wines, I am happy for him and yep I would love to see him in the red and blue he is going to be a champion, but I am also happy to have the Toump at the Dees. I will support him and his mates above opposition players ever day.

I think there is a few people here wrtting off Toumpas way too early. He will be a star. You cant have a team chock full of in and under players you need a spread. We already have Vney and Jones and have added Tyson, Michie and Vince. We need the likes of Toumpas in the side. Get off the lads back and back him in instead of writting him off and wishing we had Wines.

I would rather see Fitz and Gawn given the chance supported by Pedo and Howe. Apparantly Gawn played well for Casey the other day and is a better option than chucking Jack Watts into a role he hasnt trained for and based on previous years is not suited to. This has happened way too much to Watts over the years and is why we have been critisised for porr development. I dont think there is a chance in hell Roos will do that to Watts, as he stated at the season launch, young blokes like Watts are not the saviour of this club and should be left to learn their roles. If he gets th ball in his hands and delivers inside 50 he will put it down the throat of whoever is playing up there anyway.

He dosnt need court action he just doesnt respond to the allegations. The next step will be for the independent Anti Doping Rule Violation Panel (not ASADA but appointed by th Minister for Sport) to consider the evidence and any responses and determine if the person has possibly committed an ADRV, Dank can then appeal the ADRVP decision to the AAT if he chooses. I doubt he will get much joy at the AAT if he has refused all opportunities to put his side of the matter. I suspect any legal action by Dank would be to attack the process through the courts and have an injunction issued preventing the ADRVP from considering the matter until his issues with the legality of the process are heard in court. Once the ADRVP has made a decision an infraction may be issued and in the case of the AFL the matter heard in accordance with the AFL's antidoping rules to determine the guilt and and any penalties that may apply. I dont have a legal background and may be wrong but in my head it goes like this: ASADA investigate and present the evidence, the ADRVP establish if there is a case to answer and the AFL issue the infraction notice and decide innocence or guilt and penalties. WADA can come over the top if the are not satisfied that the punishment is sufficient. In this case the QC has been appointed to do a QA role on the evidence between ASADA and the ADRVP. I think its very similar to criminal matters where the Police investigate and present the evidence, DPP or police prosecutors review, a committal hearing determines if there is a case to answer and the trial dtermines guilt and applies the penalty.

I am confident of a win against the Saints but would like to see atleast one of Dawes, Hogan or Clark out there. It would be a blow not to win round 1 but not a disaster.

Fremantle Hawthorn West Coast Sydney Adelaide North Melbourne Geelong Richmond Carlton Port Adelaide Melbourne Gold Coast Collingwood Western Bulldogs Brisbane Greater Western Sydney St Kilda Essendon

The Show cause letter received by Dank is just part of the required Investigative process under the legislation. Once ASADA have finalised the investigation (this is now obviously done they are required to put the allegations to the accused person prior to it beng considered by the authority (Show cause letter). Dank now a couple of weeks to respond and show cause why this should not considered by the authority. This is not about ASADA trying the gather evidence that is all done. The reason Dank was not interviewed was because its voluntary and he refused requests. The coersive powers were enacted after the dates of the activity being investiated and cannot be applied retrospectively. My take is that other charges for Essendon players and officials are being sat on until they see what Dank presents in response to his show cause. It would insane for him to be sitting on evidence that proves his innocence and that of Essendon and not provide it. In my experience people are generally keen to talk when they are falsely accused. The only caviete I would put on that in this case is it could be that as Dank has stated he has no confidence in ASADA or the AFL to do the right thing. I think this is just a furphy. There is no way given the coverage of this and the media connections to this that every i would not be dotted and t's crossed. The QC was appointed to ASADA to review the ASADA legal departments opinions to give another layer of confidence in the outcomes of the investgation. If I was a Essendon or some flying to Paris on an all expenses paid holiday coutesy of Essendon I would be very very very worries right now.

I hate them, I hate there arrogance and attitude. I hate the jumper and I have no respect for the supporter base who I see as far weather suporters who jumped on board during the 80's amd are now old enough to pay up. I hated Jeff Kennett in politics and he confirmed my hate by being President the team I hate. I hate the fact the are so successful. That being said I wish we were as good. But I do hate them.

What you are actually saying is its okay for sports people to take anything they like as long as they are told by there coaches and trainers it is a legal substance and dont ask any questions. Cant you see how easy this would be for crooks to utilise? None of us know what Essendon said behind closed doors and whether they intentionally breached the code or not. The code is written specifically to prevent this defence for a reason. Players, adminstrators and coaches arer all trained and aware of there responsibilities. This is not secret. ASADA are very clear that the player is responsible and they have processes and procedures in place and spend a lot of money annually to ensure that players can make informed decisions about the supplements they are taken. If AFL players absolve themself of responsibility and place trust in the club then so be it. But that is an informed choice they have made and now they need to wear the outcome.

It is no defence to the AFL, ASADA or WADA codes for the player to be ignorant of the fact that the substance or treatment used was prohibited. If it can be shown within the scope of the burdon of proof (which is between reasonable doubt and the balance of probabilities) that the players took or intended to take banned substances then they are gone, as are the officials under rule 8. The waivers rather than being an excuse are proof of negligence.

This is the first time I have read this post because I knew it would be full of manic depressive people lamenting the Dees taking Toumpas over Wines. I am not dissapponted. For what its worth I thought Toumpas was every bit as good as Wines has been in the Richmond and Geelong games. If I recall correctly Neeld was at pains to point out that the Melbourne were well aware Toumpas was recovering from surgery that was likely to negatively impact on his firs season. I think it may have been an error to play him last year but if he was not played I can only imagine what would have been said on here. Give the kid a break, he has not played with a decent preseason behind him.

Hah ha ha ha ha, The self mportance of people on this forum is a laugh. The club dont have a office full of people employed purely to tell members things that 1, they can do nothing about and 2, will generate negative reactions based on a limited understanding. I think Burgo and the media department do a good job given the obvious financial and marketing limitations. They will release information when they have confirmed the situation with the medical department and the football department is comfortable with the release. Whats the point in reporting that Hogan has a sore back that may or may not be a problem in he is undergoing scans. How about instead of bagging the Club you are all meant to love you point your finger at the the pond muck in the media that feel the need to release guess work in guise of breaking news just to get it our first. It may be the the info that the slime released on the footy show is right but as evidenced by his passed history he is wrong just as often.

Really???? Dont now why the club would wait till they were properly informed to report things to you. I am surprised JP and Roosy dont have you on speed dial. I am sure you have all the answers.

Squad named on the Demons site Melbourne squad: 1. Jesse Hogan 2. Nathan Jones 4. Jack Watts 5. Jimmy Toumpas 7. Jack Viney 8. James Frawley 9. Jack Trengove 10. Shannon Byrnes 12. Dom Tyson 13. Jordie McKenzie 14. Lynden Dunn 17. Sam Blease 18. Daniel Cross 19. James Strauss 21. Cameron Pedersen 22. Viv Michie 23. Bernie Vince 24. Jay Kennedy-Harris 25. Tom McDonald 31. Jack Grimes 38. Jeremy Howe 41. Alexis Georgiou 42. Jake Spencer 44. Rohan Bail 45. Matt Jones 46. Dean Terlich 48. Jack Fitzpatrick Grea to see Viney back for a run. Hopefully I can get down for a look. Relatively strong side apart from a couple of talls, I would like to see another solid run by the boys, a spanking wont do the confidence any good. It will be interesting to see how Georgiou performs against a quality outfit. I think he has been a stand out in the preseason so far. Its been said before but he is the best worst kick in the comp. Can he be upgraded in place of Riley for round 1 if Garland does not come up? Forward kine of Howe, JKH, Bail, Byrnes, Hogan and Fitz is capable but I think Hogan and Fiitz will need to play blinders for the forward line to kick enough goals. I will be very interested to see if we can win enough ball aganst the best midfield in the comp. I like Spencer but am not convinced his tap work at the stopages gives us first use of the ball often enough. Go Dees!!!!

Do they still deserve to be in the ANZAC day match??? Is this a club that embodies the ANZAC spirit of honesty bravery and self sacrifice?? Did the diggers do 'What ever it takes" or did they operate within moral boundaries and a sense of honour? Take ANZAC day off this club, the have brought the game int direpute and dont deserve it.