Bedraggled Dee

I have changed my opinion on the players. they knew very well that they were involved in a dangerous game when they were briefed and signed the waivers. They were told at that time the were on the fence and as professionals should have taken responsibility for what went into their veins. IMO they clearly were negligent in relying on Hird and co to advise them and should have made their own enquiries to ASADA. They now deserve everything that Saad as had to cop, their situation is almost identical except the products were supplied through the club rather than through a retailer. Hird is a self centred egotisical nasty peice of work and should be removed fro the AFL industry immediately as should Thompson, Little and anyone else at the Essendon FC who have presided over this tragedy.

Its an interesting question, how much say should the AFL have in the nternal practices at a club. There is no doubt that the AFL in hindisght should probably have acted a few years ago to better regulate the growing supplements and sports science areas of clubs to ensure it was overseen by the clubs medical departments but I doubt this would have stopped the Essendon debarkle given they ra roughshod over Doc anyway. I also doubt prior to this that anyone would have liked the AFL scruitinising in detail clubs practicies especially in areas where the clubs considered they had competitive advantage. The onus to operate legally and within the bounds of ASADA/WADA rules is squarely on the players firstly then the clubs. The overall governance by the AFL can only be at a corporate level, they have no day to day governance over internal club processes and procedures.

This is going to get very messy and IMO will end up making few lawyers very wealthy. The AFL is being challenged by Hird and co and the AFL will end up becoming a victim of its own wranglings that will ultimately damage the brand and the competiton for many years to come. This is probably the first time I can think of where the AFL has had a beligerant and combative element of the industry to deal with. In previous occasions. and there are plenty to recall. the clubs have negotiated an outcome then tapped the mat and copped the medicine. Melbourne did that with the tanking affair and they do this in the best interests of the club and the competition. Hird is not prepared to do this and it seems is determined to have have his day in court. It is hard to see how this will play out until the ASADA and or WADA investigation/s and ACC enquiries reach their conclusions but IMO: 1. there will be infraction noticies issued to players and officials at Essendon. Hirds actions while not a determining factor are making it harder for other desicions to be made due to the lack of contrition and the club and him not taking responsibility for this situation. 2. it is unlikely infractions will be issued for AOD due to ASADA's incomplete previous advice to Dank (Mistake of fact?) 3. The Essendon FC will be sued by sacked employees and affected players 5. The AFL is now being forced by the Hird camp to further punish Hird and Essendon which I belive is designed to give Hird what he has wanted all along, his day in court. 6. This will end with Demitriou departing the AFL. This matter will drag on for a couple of years and the Ministers statement that this is "the blackest day in Australian sport" will end up being prophetic.

Not sure what would consitute a game plan but to start with I would like to see us : 1. Have a decent strategy for kickins that actually ends up with the ball getting past halfway more often than not 2. Win at least 50% of the clearances 3. Take a dozen marks each game inside the foward 50 4. Have a competetive number of possesions 5. Have them chase us for a change

The only worse pile of steaming conspiracy theory I have ever read was while havng a laugh at the moron on the Klu Klux Klan web site.

The thing is I would expect the AFL to do this n the best interests of the code. IMO this has been leaked by Hirds camp. I have nothing but contempt for that man because like his threat of legal action and his ngoing leaks this is not the best interests of the comeptition, Essendon and the Essendon players.

Not sure why this is a surprise. I would have expected the AFL to do what was required to acheive an acceptable outcome for the competion that avoided a messy and expensive trip to the courts. The outcome the AFL acheived ensured that Essendon and Hird have paid a heavy price for the governance balls up that allowed the finals to proceed without them. If it went to cournt the finals would have been compromised. It remains to be seen whether the penalty for the AFL offences are suffcient to mitigate any ASADA acton that may or may not eventuate. IMO Hird is to blame for this whole mess. He has failed from day one to take responsibility for allowing the clubs supplement program the Essendon themseleves admit was out of control. He was in charge of the football dept and a buck stops with him. He should have been sacked by the club rather than defended which would have avoided all this. The threats of legal action came from Hird and co, not the AFL, Those who critisise the AFL are essentially arguring that the AFL should have allowed this to have been played out in the courts?

In PJ we trust!!! If he thinks its okay thats good enough for me

Love reading this stuff. I am get a warm fuzzy feeling and cant wait for the season to start

There is definately a place in the team for Jordie. He may not be in the best 22 for every round but there will be times when we need to tag an Ablett or Judd and for mine he is the best we have for that role and from memory was rarely beaten last year. Yes it would be great if he was more damaging as well but if he perfoms the role he is asked to do then I have no problems.

Never met Jolly so I shouldn't comment on him as person and he has a couple of permiership medals so is a successful player but if his opinion peices to date are the best examples of his thoughts on AFL he will have a short career in the media. His work to date has shown a lack of grace and depth and if that is refelected in him as a person then he has probably reaped what he sowed.

I think we should remane the thread as follows for pedantics Where (question adverb introducing a direct or indirect question) will (used for forming the future tense of verbs that follow, but does not have a future tense of its own) Melbourne (in this context means the Melbourne Football Club Limited ACN 005 686 902) finish (to do the last part of something that is complete and in this context referring to the completion or end state of an AFL season) this (used as a determiner and in this context referring to the football season that has not been completed, ie 2012) Year (a period of 365 days or 366 in a leap year, may refer to a calendar year or financial year or in this context a football year that is not precribed or defined other than by the individuals notion of completion or commencement).

Anywhere from bottom half of the eight to the bottom ut my best guess would be 9th but I would not be surprised if we made it in the 8. Why, because I rate both ends of the ground and think we have a defence that can match any forward line in the comp and a forward line that can kick wining scores. I also think the midfield has poentially improved significantly in the off season and is now capable of gettng enough ball. This imporvement has come from some targeted recruitment and will also come from improvements from players like Watts, Trengove, Viney (gonna be a star), Evans, Matt Jones, Blease, Tapscott etc now havng had a couple of seasons in a professional AFL development system (Misson etc). The other main improvement from last year will be a game plan that has buy in from the playing group, that is effectve, and can be executed by the players we have on the paddock. All this equals a competetive AFL team that will win games. I think the sky is the limit, the only limiting factor being how long it takes for the team to be effective at implementing the game plan structures. I have confidence in Roos, Rawlings, Stone and co to get this done in quick time.

IMO best 22 for round 1 now the draft is done B McDonald Frawley Terlich HB Cross Garland Grimes C Tyson Vince Watts HF Trengove Dawes Hogan F Howe Clark Blease R Gawn Viney N Jones I Fitzpatrick Toumpas/Salem Evans M Jones Question marks over Evans and Blease but I recon Blease still has a huge up side in an attacking midfield role and Evans I recon did enough last year. I am still confused why we have not traded a big man, I think we have 1 too many on the list from Jamar, Gawn and Spencer especially given we have back ups in Fitzy, Clark and Dawes. I recon Gawn and Spencer both showed positive signs last year and while I respect and like Jamar his spread and defensive work is not up with the current game. Remaining list Dunn Byrnes McKenzie Clisby Kent Strauss Pedersen Michie Nicholson Barry Tapscott Gawn Spencer Bail Hunt Kennedy-Harris

Robbie Its not a case of hosing him down its just an opinion on why Jurrah will never be drafted in the AFL. If Jimmy and Mclardy where still at the helm with their altruisitic outooks and backgrounds I would say he may have a glimmer of a chance, but with the iron pragmatism of PJ and Roos now steering the SS Demon there is absolutely positively nil null zero chance of Jurrah getting a gig. I actually agree with your take on Jurrah, I think for all his faults and failings underneath it all he has the qualities of a great leader and the ability to be anything he sets his mnd to but playing AFL is now beyond even him. His last opportunity came via Port Adelaide and he blew it.

I agree if it was a level playing field unfortunately its not. Melbournes TPP is $8673500 if we pay the minimum $9130000 if we pay the max GWS TPP is $9987000 GC TPP is 9630000 Best case we are still betwee, 8 and 500000 short of other clubs GIven What GWS were going to chuck at Franklin they have wiggle room and an extra $mil on the Dees

Not a chance in hell Jurrah could get on an AFL list. I doubt he could find a VFL team to take the punt. That being said I recon he is a freakishly talented bloke who potentially could tear the competition apart and generate millions of dollars in exposure and sponsorship for the club. The sad reality or me is that I believe it is highly unlikely that an AFL team will recruit talented indignous players from remote communities in the future. The low percentage that make it through the system to become consitent players means the risk is not worth it. You could name any number of players like Jurrah and Aussie as case studies. I actually think that Matt Rendell was correct in elements of the comments he got sacked for, ie his view that without some serious work by the AFL to better prepare young indignous players for the rigours of the AFL system they will be lost to it. Rendell was advocatting some intensive development and asistance for young indiginous players to try an close the gap between their existing cultural norms and attitudes and those demanded of a professional AFL athelete. I dont believe clubs will recruit indignious players because of this perceived sterotype and that should not be the case. Ironically I think the outcry and finger pointing that led to Rendells sacking has negatively impacted on opportunities for indiginous players rather than positively impacted on any racial stereotypes. It will intersting to look at the profiles of the next few years of trades, delistings and drafts and compare them with the ones through the late 2000's and see what proportion are indiginous and how many of those are from the outback. As a club was very proud of the work and effort done by Jimmy and Co to try and understand and show respect to Jurra and his culture and it is a shame for all young player that try to follow Jurrah that he has let them down so badly.

Slightly off topic but why do people care about the stars and the collar? Is it just a Schwab thing? I couldnt give a rats. However on topic, this is fantastic news and great not just financially but it gives players like Frawley the feeling that the club is moving forward and there is light at the end if the tunnel. A financially secure and stable club will definately impact on his desicion whether to re-sign or bail.

My wife and I watched some of the later training and practice games at Casey last year and we both thought the team went into the season cooked. They looked flat and tired and the legs looked slow. We both walked awy from the St Kilda practice game thinking the players still did not get the game plan and that it was going to be a long season. We were amazed to hear the way Neeld spoke with confidence after we just got flogged by a team neither of us rated. Hopefully this year the fitness regime Roos and Misson come up with get them to the season fit and with som zing and they have a game plan they can 1, understand and 2, execute.

Complete Spud??? In his best year 2012 (22 games) he averaged 1.6 goals a game from and average of 13 disposals around 36.8 goals for the year (23 rounds), well above our best foward for last year and definately better than any of the existing small forward options mentioned. He made 83 tackles averaging 3.8 a game. Both of these stats are incidently higher than Jack Kings. He is definately not a spud and crumbing around our talls kicking 36 goals for a late draft pick in my opinion would be a good thing. There is obviously a reason King is preferred at the Tiges but I back in Roos to make him the player we need and I recon he would be a great pick up for the Dees.

HFF, Not sure where you get you opinion on Grimes performance this year. Aprat from a few quite game when he returned from injury he was consitently in the best for Melbourne with barely a single decent preseason in his time wit Melbourne. If you take out rounds 6, 15, 16 17 and 18 when is got injured or was retuning from injury with limited game time he averaged 21.4 for disposals and was in the top 10 for tackles in games where we lost by significant amounts. Jones in comparison averaged 23.1 disposals Grimes is set to be an outstanding Captain of the melbourne Football Club over a long period of time and while Jones may be a great onfield leader he does not have smarts and communication skills that Grimes has. By all accounts Grimes is aleader on and off the field and while he obviously is still a work in progress he deserves the oppotunity to lead this club into the future. He has done a great job leading thos club through a couple of very difficult years and has dealt with things most Captains of the competition never have to deal with. Has the Captaincy hindered his development as player, maybe? but I think he is noe equipt to take this club forward and deserves the opportunity. Nothing against Jones, he is a heart and soul player for the team and would be happy forn them to share the Captaincy but I would hate to see Grimes demoted right now. My picks Captain - Grimes VC - Jones, Garland LG - Dawes, Frawley and Clark

My take on the list as it stands 5 x Backs (Frawley, Garland, Dunn, McDonald, Pedersen) 5 x Backs/mids (Clisby, Grimes, Strauss, Terlich, Jetta,) 13 x Mids (Bail, Barry, Evans, M Jones, N Jones, Michie, McKenzie, Nicholson, Toumpas, Trengove, Tyson, Vince, Viney) 5 x Forward/mids (Howe, Kent, Blease, Tapscott, Watts) 5 x Forwards (Byrnes, Clark, Dawes, Fitzpatrick, Hogan) 3 x Rucks (Jamar, Spencer. Gawn) I would have thought we have an abundance of talls both back and forward and astill a bit shy on quality small forwards and runing backs. I also think we have one too many rucks. The trading we have done and the drafts should go a long way to fixing th midfield

Where would I like Jack Watts to play? In another team Nice bloke but I would have prefered us to trade him for a tall midfielder rather than try and turn a tall forward with questionable ability into one. I hope I am wrong and he stars under Roos.

Just a quick summary of recent draftee no longer with us. The drafting department should hang its head in shame!!! Name - Pick number - AFL Games ® = Rookie (PS) = Pre season 2006 Pettard 30 - 54 Weetra 62 - 2 Hayes ® 12 - 0 2007 Morton 4 - 23 Maric 21 - 21 Cheney 53 - 14 McNamara 66 - 4 Martin (PS) 3 - 57 Zomer ® 3 - 0 Valenti ® 49 - 15 2008 Bennel 35 - 57 Jurrah (PS) 1 - 36 Healey ® 12 - 0 Hughes ® 33 - 2 2009 Scully 1 - 31 Gysberts 11 - 19 Newton (R again) 6 - 7 Meesen ® 22 - 0 2010 Cook 12 - 0 Davis 50 - 2 Lawrence ® 48 - 0 Johnston ® 63 - 0 Campbell ® 75 - 0 Mcnammara ® 83 - 1 2011 Taggart 36 - 0 Tynan 52 - 2 Sellar 54 - 23 Sheehan ® 6 - 0 Couch ® 24 - 3 Magner ® 42 - 19 Williams ® 59 - 0 2012 Stark ® 3 - 0

Love it!!! outstanding!!! Its amazing the insight 20 pots a puff or two of whacky bacci and half a bottle of Brandivino gives a person.