Bedraggled Dee

Thanks mate, interesting reading. I cant see the case being sufficient to have the evidence thrown out. Obviously ASADA is tapping the mat on a few things but given the powers that the AFL and ASADA used exisit and evidence can be shared after the event it appears Middleton is more likely to use his discretion to allow the matter to proceed. Can Hird and Little appeal to a higher court if things dont go there way?

Really???? He kept Bartel to 15 touches and 1 goal 1. He only had 8 touches himself and is still working back from a fair ot of time off but I would have thought that was a win for him on the day. I recon out defence stood up well yesterday. It was the same old story of the midfield getting spanked starving our forwards of quality ball and our defence on a hiding to nothing. I dont think anyone in our defence will volunatrily be let go. They have done a good job all year as well as being plucked clean to fill vacancies in the forward line. The vast majority will go from the midfield. The backroom will be trawling the comp looking for developed class to fill mifdfield gaps as a priority. Delisted will be Blease, Strauss, Nicho and Tappy. There will be a whole bunch on the trade table as well but that could be anyone.

There has been a big fat line drawn under our lack of onfield leadership with the loss of Cross over the last couple of weeks. It is obvious to me that this bloke is critical for the development of the team and for Roos to execute his plans. the quicker we get him back the better. Fantastic news he is going around again. Hopefully Mission can keep his body right for another year after that as well.

And it makes me clever and my wife pretty. Gettng very close to Rum O'clock. I have a bottle of Navy Rum waiting at home

nil zero f-all I would have thought

I hope it is crunch time and he does what he does best and takes a few of the handbags out during procedings. He needs to get hold of the ball because I recon he is dangerous by foot going inside 50.

Love Homer. Thats my fav

Me too, It will be interestng if it comes out thate one or two did know. I would think a few agent registrations would be looked at by the AFL. There are significant pressures and conflicts right across this industry, the Agents and AFLPA are to a degree in the pockets of the clubs who ulitimately pay there way. If you stand up to Little and Essendon on this it will do you chances of signing Bombers players in the future no good at all. In all of this the players are the least of anyones problems. They are transient entities, the Agents, Clubs and AFLPA will exist long after they are gone. In a sense they are expendable, you can always get new ones.

Nope, I think the point is if Hird co-wrote a letter that he later denied he new off it is proof he has lied to ASADA and AFL investigators. This trows in doubt all his statements and credibility and would be proof of guilt of a breach of the AFL PED policy. There may also be possible breaches of offences under the ASADA Act or the Criminal Code Act.

I agree Doc Reid is culpable and should be gone, but I dnt think the player agents and the AFLPA can be held to account for what happened before they became aware of the supplements program. I dont think the players discussed it outside the club. My problem is the stance taken after the event. Not sure what the player agents have contributed but they all have this ex player attitude of club loyalty and sticking with your mates. The problem is no one supposedly working for the players is sayng hang on to Little, we have a conflict here and we will determine what is in the best interestes on the players without you looking over our shoulders and working the puppet strings. The AFL must be concerned but quite rightly have remained at arms length as they have a conflict of interest as well. These kids are under enormous peer pressure to not break ranks with the club. I hope they are getting one on one time with the legal advisors, with their families in attendance if desired. Even if this occurs they would be very concerned in discussing much with a legal team with direct links back to Little. This is where the AFLPA should come in to ensure that the players have independant advice that they can access confitially away from the club and other players. I am not sure they are doing this. Found this in an old Barratt article: Prominent Melbourne lawyer Tony Hargreaves will be working with David Grace QC and Ben Ihle with AFL Players Association counsel Brett Murphy and Bernie Shinners, completing the players’ defence team. Hargreaves’ involvement with the players is interesting given he, until recently was working on behalf of the Essendon Football Club in all of its separate dealings with the ASADA investigation. This stinks in my opinion

I agree Doc Reid is culpable and should be gone, but I dnt think the player agents and the AFLPA can be held to account for what happened before they became aware of the supplements program. I dont think the players discussed it outside the club. My problem is the stance taken after the event. Not sure what the player agents have contributed but they all have this ex player attitude of club loyalty and sticking with your mates. The problem is no one supposedly working for the players is sayng hang on to Little, we have a conflict here and we will determine what is in the best interestes on the players without you looking over our shoulders and working the puppet strings. The AFL must be concerned but quite rightly have remained at arms length as they have a conflict of interest as well. These kids are under enormous peer pressure to not break ranks with the club. I hope they are getting one on one time with the legal advisors, with their families in attendance if desired. Even if this occurs they would be very concerned in discussing much with a legal team with direct links back to Little. This is where the AFLPA should come in to ensure that the players have independant advice that they can access confitially away from the club and other players. I am not sure they are doing this.

As Ellis 'Red' Redding (Morgan Freeman) stated in the Shawshank Redemption "Let me tell you something my friend. Hope is a dangerous thing. Hope can drive a man insane'.

I big issue for me that I havent seen rasied here or brought up through any external source is the role of the AFLPA in this disaster. I recon they should be a critical support to the players but from what I have read they appear to have been caught up in the Essendon twaddle, I assume with the agreement of the players. My view is they should remain well and truely at arms length from anyone other than the players. I was very concerned to see that the AFLPA and Essendon lawyers appeared to be one and the same. From memory the lead QC for the players legal team was previously used by the Bombers. There is a significant conflict of interest between the Bombers and the players and the AFLPA should not be working with an Essendon funded legal team, they should be providing independant advice. Essendon payng the players legal costs comes at cost, the lawyers will do the bidding of the bloke writng the cheques not the susposed client. I have concerns that the players remain loyal to a club that I think has questionable morals and have clearly set themselves and the players on a collision course with the rest of the world. The AFLPA regardless of the wishes of the players should ensure that each player has access to independant high quality confidential legal advice that they can access if they as individuals decide they would like to. This pack mentality is a real concern for these young men.

Tappy now has his opportunity to continue an AFL career. A good game executing his job and he will be extended a week. A poor game and he is as good as gone. Fair bit of pressure on the young bloke I recon.

The Bombers are currently running the wimbledon defence (just keep whacking things back over the net until the other person makes a mistake). The supporters appear to have envoked the ostrich defence.

Great news, Tmac now needs to get into Chips ear

Had the names mixed up and proven to have bought and paid for TB4 I feel sorry for Essendon because all of the circumstances are being twisted and misinterpreted to make them look guilty of something they cant prove they didn't do. With all this false circumstantial evidence mounting up its no wonder the only option to prove their innocence is to ensure it never sees then light of day. I agree with Little and Hird, how can a government authority possibly believe numerous corroborating peices of evidence when Essendon have clearly and consistently stated they did nothing wrong. It beggers belief!!!!

Whats the next step in the Federal Court case? Are there more direction hearings or are we now waiting for the trial in August? Does anyone know what will happen to the documents obtained through disclosure? Are the documents presented in this case publicly availble?

I think Middleton left it in the hands of ASADA under th belief that nothing would proceed untill his ruled on the matter. I assume ASADA will issue ad extension or suspend the process untill after the trial.

Pedersen not a gut runner???? Have you watched agame this year. His workrate is right up there not sure his skill are in the same category.

Your probably right, the focus on AOD was to draw focus away from TB4. You have to give the Bombers credit for manipulating all and sundry over this issue. I have been amazed how successful they have been at that. When this gets finalised the AFL360 numpties will look particularly stupid.

I think the change of tempo and tenet from ASADA has caught the naughty lot a little wrong footed. So much dancing did Essendon do around the legality or prohibition of AOD 9604 that it took their eyes off the ball and they themselves got blindsided when it all became about Thymosin Beta 4 ( TB4 ) Not sure how they missed the TB4 angle BB. I assume they read Annex A to the Notice of Chrage from the AFL. It was pretty clear from there that TB4 was significant issue. I thought they were also knackered for AOD and was worried about Trenners but obviously there were issues regarding ASADA advice and questions regarding its approval for use in humans through Dank using a compounding pharmacist that on balance convinced ASADA not to take action. Nothing I have seen from any entitiy involved has changed my view that Dank treated WADA and ASADA rules with contempt and in his arrogance made a huge mistake. I think he bent the rules for years and saw himself as the font of all knowledge regarding sports physiology and saw ASADA and WADA as road blocks on the path to his version of enlightenment in sports performance. The Bombers bought his sales pitch and despite internal and external warnings ran full pelt towards the light and in the process have got burnt. This error of judgement can almost be forgiven and explained by an inexperienced head coach who was given way too much latitude due to his position within the Club, hence the AFL charges and penalties. What cant be forgiven is the beligerence and immoral response by the Bombers that has threatened the entire competition. The suggestion by Essendon and its hangers that ASADA investigators (Lawyers and ex cops) have twisted and misreprented evidence acted illegally and deliberately used powers they dont have to gather evidence under duress is insulting and stupid. The case is there to be answered and I hope despite there protestations the Federal Court allows the case against the Bombers to proceed.

Heard a whisper he gave Roos a spray at some point. I dont think Roos would let that effect his selection but might be a sign of Tappys frustration at his inability to play the required style. I recon he has a couple of months to break into the team and prove he should be retained or he will be delisted or traded (if possible). His career is definately at a cross roads.

A few rumours circulating he is close to signing. Anyone heard anything?

I recon she has a heap of sources but that dosn't alter the fact that her parroting her sources is the same as Robinson parroting his. Only the source of the info is different.