Bedraggled Dee

Thanks WJ, depressing read but a good summary of the events. Terrible terrible year. Best not dwelled on but also best not forgotten. I think adversity can sometimes be the makng of a person especialy those with character. I think we have a couple who will emerge from this period players and people they would not be without it. Garland and Jones come to mind. These hard times will stand them in good stead in the good times. They will be tougher harder and more resiliant. I will enjoy the good times more coming out the misery we have just endured.

IMO there is enough evidence in the AFL charge document to prove within the required ASADA burdon of proof that: 1. Essendon players were administered with WADA banned substance Thymosin Beta 4 2. Essendon players were administered with WADA banned substance AOD 9604 3. Essendon players were administered with unknown peptides described as 'Amino Acids' I know there has been some negative press regarding comments by John Fahey but if you read the AFL charge document and accept that as ex WADA head he knows what he is talking about, the Bombers are in serious trouble. I think this whole saga to date will end up being seen as a side show. There may be a legal person on the forum who can comment but if the incomplete advice Dank claims to have receoved from ASADA regarding the status of AOD 9604 actually exists there may be a defence (Mistake in fact?) for the use of this substance. I am not sure how the ADASA/WADA codes are written or if they are the same as absolute or strict liability offences or if this defence may be available. I hope it is for Trenners sake. I think that infraction notices are almost inevitable and one of the reasons that the AFL has backed dwon on Hird and Co and have been loath to waste money on court battles is that Hird is a dead man walking once infractions are issued and anything done now will just be pointless. The apparant dragging of ASADAs feet in finalising this investigation is to try and obtain proof of what the unknown substances were. This may also be because Dank and Charter and probably other none sporting people are key targets of ADASA's and the evidence aganst these entities will fall out both the Cronulla and Essendon matters whcih will both need to be completed together to maximise the case aganst Dank and Charter. There may also be other Police matters against these individuals that need to be completed before the ASADA case is made public.

It does not work for me OD. He is a dog!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have nothing but contempt and disgust for any team he remains involved with. If you haven't noticed this s&$#s me that he has got away with it.

Great post Dees2014. I agree completely. I dont think anyone can look at the AFL over the last decade and not think the game has been well run. Record growth in money and crowds dont happen by themselves. Expansions into lucrative untapped markets the admittedlay are still in question but are required to grow the game. That being said the last year has not been a good one for the CEO. I think he has done what he thinks is right but a couple of key decisions in hindsight have turned out to be errors. Demetriou most likely warned Evans of the ACC info and while he did it in the best interests of the competition it has blown up in his face and created a bad perception. The joint investgation was at the time a reasonable idea for the AFL (I dont know why ASADA would agree to it) but in practice has created more problems than it solved. Flowing from this is the issue of the muddying of the AFL governance investigation through its timing with the release of the ASADA interim report which the AFL was forced to distance itself from as evidence for the govenance issues. This was just messy and gifted Hird chinks in the armour ot attack. Overall the AFL's handling of this has been messy and has just reinforced Essendon and Hirds jaundiced views that the AFL and AD are not treating them equitably and fairly and they are not receiving natural justice. Combine this with arrogance and and intransigence, an unwillingness to accept any wrong doing and a healthy dose of paranoia and we here we are. Ironically I think Essendon and Hird despite their views have got off extremely lightly.

If that occured and they went down th gurgler which is a possible outcome where do you think that would leave the media rights and the sposoship of the comp. Vunerable clubs like Melbourne. there would be millions of dollars that would disappear and the comp would shrink. The AFL is acting to preserve the comp and while I agree that those responsible should pay the price the AFL's role is to minimise the fall out to the rest of the comp. You are much better influencing from the inside and that was the basis of the AFL's approach.

The point is what would you expct the AFL to do, stand back and just let it unfold and have not influence over it? There is a big diffenerence in the way the same facts are interpreted, analysed and disseminated and influencing that does not nessecarily involve corruption. Lawyers do it ever day

I am not sure it should be called corruption but they attempted to manipulate and exert some control believing that was what was best for the comp and through a number of circumstances some beyond there control it has blown up in their face. I doubt that Demetriou and the AFL attempted to act illegally but there actions have been close to that on occasions (warning Evans). I am cnvinced that AD was advised on the side by sources in governement of what was coming and acted on that info to warn Evans and to get on te front foot and that is exactly what he should do. Doubt he will do that for Essendon again. What would be the commentry if he new this was coming and dd nothing? I dont blame the AFL, they did not implement a supplements program or employ Dank that is all Essendons doing. They were trying to clean up the mess post event and have done it in a messy way.

I agree OD. The other presidents must be shaking their heads. I am surprised about the defening silence from them, There would be a fair bit said behind closed door I am tipping.

Not sure as the CEO of the competition he should ever do that. he is duty bound to act in the best interests of the competition and that means where possible acting in the best interests of Essendon (by that I mean the club not Hird). I think that was occuring with Evans even though the objectives of Evans and Demitriou were never going to be identical but Little has come in on the back of the Hirdy train and is far more focussed on being combative than doing what he can to join forces with the AFL. While the desired outcomes for individuals and the AFL are different (ie whats best for Hird is not nessecarily best for the AFL) the strategic outcomes are identical (whats best for Essendon is best for AFL). The issue is that Hird thinks he is the Essendon Football Club and as a consequence we have ended up with the circus. What Essendon have done is push the AFL closer to ASADA, they are morons!!!!!!!!

The boys definately seem happier at training and the drills while similar to last years are executed very differently. The relationship between Roos and players seems very good, You can see it in the New Age add on the web site, he is prepared to have a laugh with them and engage them as people. I would love to see the draftees running around at Casey for a year or so learing the game plan and hopefully winning and gaining confidence playing against men. We have sacrificed too many young players over recent years and I recon Maldonboys comments above are spot on. We now have the players in the midfield to be a settled team and hopefully we dont see the youngsters from this year for at least 2 unless they are standouts like Hogan.

I agree Pink, I think the NRL's strategy in hindsight seems the better approach. I think Demitriou acted to protect the brand and the Bombers but in the end due mainly to the beligerence of Hird and Co he has not acheived that. It is easy to sit in judgement after the event but at the end of the day he is paid a lot of money to get this right. This is by far the biggest issue the AFL has faced in my time following the game and linking the AFL to the ASADA investigation appears to have been a mistake. I dont think he or anyone else predicted the way Essendon would react when this started. Hird and Co obviously follow the "attack is the best form of defence" school which is their right but may not the right thing to do. IMO if Evans was still at the helm this would have played out differently.

Not a bg fan of Leapfrog its a bit smokey for my taste. Try Pussers Navy Rum for somethung different its a taste sensation

Yep Hird apparantly was there. Cant believe that so few people at this club hold this man to account for the disaster that was last season without even considering the impact physically and mentally on the group of young men that were under his duty of care. I suspect that this cult will end up where it should despit Demetiou and the AFL's best efforts. Little and Hird will get found out playing the short game (the AFL and next season) when the focus should have always been on the long game (ASADA/WADA) and the ensuing legal action by players and officials that will bankrupt them. It will play out shortly after Cronulla are dealt just after the New Year.

Based on what I saw at training I recon we might see some big changes for next year. The followng would not surprise me as a starting side Cross Frawley Terlich McDonald Garland Grimes Vince Trengove Watts Howe Clark Hogan Blease Dawes Toumpas Gawn N Jones J Viney Michie Tyson Firzpatrick Barry

I agree, I was struck by the focuss on gut running. This includied unrewarded running. Heard Roos a couple opf time commenting on the runnng. Very different from last year

Disgraceful that a highly paid CEO would invoke the ostrich defence. Clearly no one at that club has taken responsibility for what went on in 2012. The belief is obviously that nothing wrong was done and that the club, James Hird and Corcoran are being made scapegoats. This is despite there own review finding the contrary. It is hard to see how Essendon can take the stance they have taken and treat the Weapon like they have or are they saying that things were done wrong at the club but Robinson was the only one who deserved a punisment. I hope the Weapon wins and stiches them up. Corcoran and Hird have been punished by taking paid holidays. How is that equitable when other good people have copped for more for less? The Bummers are morally bankrupt and deserve our undying contempt. The have lied cheated and fought dirty through this entire fiasco to the detriment of the AFL and the code. Their actions in honouring club - coach/administrator contracts above AFL sanctions have challenged the authority of the AFL and have set a very dangerous precident. The competition needs the AFL to regulate and to do that the AFL needs authority and Essendons actions undermine that. Without the AFL the competiton cannot exist in its current format, clubs battling each other for self interest without a common purpose will put Melbourne and the Doggies etc at risk and we will end up with an EPL style comp.

Almost exited about this as I am about te Dees next year. WADA have been clear with this message all along and I am a little confused why the AFL and Little keep saying all is well.

They must have money if the can afford to pay Hird $1M for doing nothing. I agree about the bill, if infractions get issued thay will be lucky to remain solvent with the suites that will flow from players etc. Given their governance issues I am not confident that weapon was dealt with in accordance with contractual and workplace relations requirements and they may end up paying there as well. The AFL bailout will make out $1.2M look like chicken feed.

Shaking in anticipation :)

It has a lot to do with cash IMO, oiling the squeaky wheel etc. Hird and the EFC have teams of QC's and have spent over $2M. I doubt we came close spending $1M

I dont feel sorry for Hird. He should be sacked and never allowed to raise his head in AFL circles again I am disgusted with the feather slap he has received compared to Connolly when he was only found guilty of injudicious comments. Cuddles got suspended (without pay!!!) for 12 months and was banned from attending games or the club. While I think we looked after him to a degree after the suspension ultimately he has lost his career. Hird suspended for 12 months. Can attend games and the club, keeps a $1M dollar salary and gets a 2 year contract extension. How is that equitable when Hird by any measure has brought the game into far more disreput? Cant wait for the day when this P&%#k gets what he deserves.

I recon Hird is getting what he wanted all aong a big fight that will end up in his day in court. If that happens all the backroom work done by the AFL (in the interests of the competion) will be aired in public an will do no one any good

You could argue the Bombers playes were more culpable because they were told when signing the waivers that they were sailing close the wind. They should have responded and acted then rather than blindly followng the direction of the club and its officials. Lets be clear they were eing advised by Dank and the weapon who had joined the club that year. Its clear that not everyone at Essendon was onboard. IMO they were negligen. The only mitigating factor IMO is the culture of "what ever it takes' that Hird instigated and that is why he should be sacked.

I dont think its just noise. She and her husband are thumbing their noses at the AFL and challenging the games authority. The onus is now on the AFL to act but they may have bugger all legal ground to stand on if the reports on the agreements are correct. The media campaign by Hird since getting back from France is not opportunistic, it is a planned and orchestrated campaign by Hird his legal team and PR advisors to embarass the AFL and bring down Demitriou. He was never happy with the settlement and this wont end till it ends up in court becuase he clearly believes he had been wronged and want to clear his and his families name.

I agree, I think Hird is acting without regard to the younng men and other employees he was responsible for and also in contempt of the club he is suposed to love. Love or hate Connolly, but he took a whack for the MFC and IMO is a better man than Hird will ever be.