Lil_red_fire_engine

6. Vandenberg 5. Vince 4. Hogan 3. Fitzpatrick 2. Pederson 1. Grimes NB: Special mention to Brayshaw whose last quarter was truly immense and a sign of whats to come with this kid.

He was well beaten in the first quarter, had two poor errors including one that any other year would have seen us drop our bundle and lose. I also thought Wallis was one of their better players. Was serviceable and great in the last but thought it was not close to his best.

Where did I say they should not be favourites? They are not as good as the media or some on here beat up. Our lack of ability has been overly amplified by playing three big mature sides that have made some forget some of the form we showed in patches. I don't think we will win but wont be surprised if we give it a serious shake.

I dont grossly overestimate our players I just dont grossly overestimate other teams or their players. Their best thsi year is better than ours but they have been inconsistent and are not as good a team away from Etihad. If we return to the style of football and application we showed prior to playing the three best teams in the competition we are a fair chance of winning.

The doggies gave up a record lead against the saints and got smashed by the Hawks as well but that seems to not be discussed. The view is so out of balance it is ridiculous.

Geez alot of people are in love with the dogs list. I wish they would look at our list with similar objectivity. We are better set at either end of the ground. They have a better midfield fleet but are more suited to a speedy track at Etihad. I am thankful Watts is in as he at least is creative with ball and hits a target. Michie obviously does not follow team rules to be consistently out every time he plays a game. Being that Howe swans around the ground doing not much I would love to know what those team rules are. A Hogan, Pederson, Watts, Garlett forward line will be dangerous IF we can actually get the ball in there with any frequency.Hoping Riley plays to gives us a bit more hardness around the ball as it has lacked the last 3 weeks.

My view is its not about average age its about the quality of the mature players you have to lead the way.

He started there last week and re-confirmed his laziness within the first 15 minutes and was moved back quite promptly. Has low work rate, lacks defensive intent, his leading patterns aren't great and when he does get chances has poor conversion. But he does take a lovely mark every now and then. Has been poor, round 1 aside and should be at Casey this week.

I love how playing the 3 best teams in the last 3 weeks and a serious run of injuries that has exposed our known to be shallow depth = we wont win many games. I still expect us to win 6-8 which was what I expected at years start.

He has been a liability this year every game he has played. If he had calf issues rest him but when he is ready it needs to be back through Casey.

Has been in the bests last 3 weeks. There are players not earning their spot and we are injury ravaged. Will he have earnt his spot any less than Brayshaw at the start of the year or Stretch last week?

Updated now based on injury updates, Casey reports and stats and some re-think. Out: Dawes, Stretch, Salem, Howe In: Hogan, Riley, Newton, ANB Brayshaw as sub. Spencer to get another go. Toumpas to play half back.

Vandenberg and Salem are not playing midfield and Brayshaw's minutes are limited. We have recruited an inside midfield that needs time to mature what we now need is to add some midfield run which we lack aside from players that don't have the class to capitalise on it.

We lacked leadeship. We lacked aggression at the stoppages. We lacked smarts and dare when we had the ball. We lacked the courage to run offensively and defensively. The last three contests and injuries have hit our confidence and exposed our complete lack of depth. Its not surprising to anyone we cant match it with the top 3. We will learn more about where we're at between now and the bye.

Pederson T-Mac Cross Garlett Jones Grimes

Out: Dawes, Stretch, Salem, Toumpas, Howe, Spencer In: Hogan, Viney, Jetta, ANB, Watts, Gawn

I love how people quote the form of 6-8 years. Our form line against most sides over that time would look similar. We are on the way to not being the same team. That guy buddy no longer plays there, their two best this year in Hodge and Lewis are out and they have brought in two players underdone. Things are not the same. I do not expect to win but give us a sneaky chance and anything more than a 4-5 goal loss would be unacceptable. I am hoping we hit hard at the contest and spread hard away from it. Be aggressive and creative going forward even if it means some frustrating clangers. Do this and we will give ourselves a shake.

We currently don't hit targets because we have nothing forward of the ball or are well outnumbered forward of the ball. At least having players that run hard to space gives you a target. The fact they have questionable disposal becomes the next issue.

We are not struggling to hit a target. We are struggling to have anyone run forward of the ball to attempt to hit. I would prefer to get that right and then worry about the first part.

The issue last week was we didn't have mids that ran hard enough so we had no options to kick forward to. That will be the reason Bail, Jones and Grimes are in. Michie should not have been dropped the previous week. The issue wont be run this week but kicking may be. Good that they have continued with Spencer, Stretch and Toump. I cannot for the life of me understand how Howe continues to get a game. Must be on his last chance.

I dont think we've been intimidated by loose man in defence exactly. We have been intimidated by stoppages in our defensive 50 and have sent 2-3 more players there rather than held position. We have then got the ball and been greeted with one forward v 4 defenders and not know what to do. I expect this mentality will disappear this week or next.

Now known that Viney wont play but Jetta not on injured list. Out: Howe,JKH In: Jetta, Michie If weather fine Pederson to play to stretch their defence and give Pencil a chop out. Also Dawes calf does not fill me with confidence. Stretch as sub.

Whilst I understand what you are getting at if the names of those U18 flankers were Fyfe, Sidebottom or Rockliff we would not have this thread. This is not about the type of player we chose but our inability to see what they would become and develop them appropriately to fit with a strategy.

Its fun reading how some players are marked and how the criticism gets justified but others float by. Toumpas first game back in for a grand total of 20th with probably third as the sub has 7 kicks 7 handballs at 71%. Newton has 7 kicks and 7 handballs at 71% including two shocking errors early in the game. Spencer after half time was clearly the better ruckman and had the second most tackles and second most clearances in his first game back. Pike who some claim is a second rate ruckman was second for contested grabs in the league last year, achieved the tap out record in one game last week and has only been beaten by Sandilands all year. Jamar showed at VFL he is done and Gawn did some good things but does not work half as hard as Spencer. Watts comes on and was clean and serviceable. Howe floats by in another lazy, disinterested soft game. My main disappointment was we seemed so focussed on halving the stoppages with them last night that no held position and no had interest to spread when we had the ball. Tyson needs to face criticism for his inability to spread or if he is that injured try and get right whatever is wrong. JKH's workrate is appalling and he needs to have a long stint at Casey. Hopefully Viney back so Vince can be let off the leash as we are now missing his attacking creativity whilst he is more focussed on the tag.

Did you watch the VFL today? He will give you a turnover or two but he runs to space and gets the ball and has some toe. He is better than some of those running out there at the minute.