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Jack Billings is definitely worth a try ahead of Harmes and Jordon.

Well dazzler, I for one think yelling racist abuse is way, way worse than taking recreational drugs. Incomparably worse. For one thing yelling racist abuse is, at least in my opinion, morally and ethically unacceptable. In my opinion recreational drug use is neither. Of course drug misuse is damaging to communities, particularly the most disadvantaged. And the most disadvantaged of all are Aboriginal communities because of endemic systemic racism, which is underpinned by the sort of casual racism they are forced to endure (as bad as it is, the issue isn't really Walker yelling racist abuse at a local footy match - it's that he thought it was socially acceptable to do so). Drug misuse is a symptom. And for many a form of logical self medication. Recreational drug use harms the individual choosing to use them. Yelling racist epithets harms the person being subjected to the abuse, anyone who hears it and the society as a whole. And Aboriginal people. Made 100 times worse when it is someone people admire and put on a pedastool like Walker. You seem to be conflating drug use and drug misuse. Of course if drug use becomes misuse it can cause untold harm on communities, particularly as you say disadvantaged communities. And you are 100% correct there are many communities ravaged by drug misuse. I assume you have the same views on alcohol? That recreational alcohol use is worse than yelling racist abuse? I have worked in the community services sector for over 30 years. For many years I worked in residential care with the kids you work with now. Damaged, traumatised kids removed from their families for their own protection. I have worked in child protection, the youth drug space (rehab units), needle exchanges, harm reduction, youth refuges, family services, family violence, public housing and homelessness (family, rough sleeping, crisis). On a personal level I was a young fella in Melbourne during the heroin epidemic in the 80s and early 90s. The Herald Sun had a daily overdose count such was the devastation and the music scene I was part of as a punter was devastated by the dragon, as were close friends. I know the damage drugs can do. But i can categorically say that in my experience NOTHING comes close to the damage alcohol does. Nothing. It's alcohol and then daylight on the scale of harm its misuse causes to kids, families and communities. Particularly the most disadvantaged ones.

Anyone catch Gettable today? Cal was saying Dees, GC & Roos were in talks early in the FA period to swap picks. GC’s pick 5 would have gone out, Dees would have given up 6, 14 & F1, Roos throw in pick 3 & a ‘24 end of 1st rd pick (compo). Dees would have taken pick 3 & Roos future end of 1st rd, Roos would take picks 5 & 6 & GC take home the rest for further pick swaps and bid matching. Obviously the deal didn’t get done, but interesting that we explored trading our hand to get to pick 3 (not 1). This is all prior to Dogs locking in pick 4, so were we expressly trying land in front of Hawks (at that point heavily linked to Duursma, also like Watson)? If the Roos remain keen, a variation of that deal could be possible if the Eagles decide to draft Reid.

Source of the following is Neds on the platform formerly known as Twitter:

By the by, dazzler, i wanted to clarify that leaving aside the issue of the impact of drugs on disadvantaged communities i wanted to make 1000% clear i think that as a society we should be doing everything in our power to reduce the likelihood all children (ie young people up to age of 18 and even a bit older) use drugs and alcohol whilst still children and their brain is still developing. The research on brain development has come a very long way since i started in community services and it is now clear that use of any toxic substances, including alcohol, hugely negatively impacts the developing brain - which research suggests continues to develop up to aprox 25 (and beyond but much more incrementally). And i'd like to add that the work you are doing is so, so important. There is no more important work. I often wondered when i was doing resi work, by far the hardest and most demanding work i have ever done, if i was making a difference. Quite a few years later i was in homelessness and a kid from one of the units became a client of service. Great kid. Hadn't seen in him since working with him. And when he saw me he beamed and talked at length about stuff we had done together stuff and things i had said to him (that i could barely recall saying). He told me that i had indeed made a difference and he very much took on board some of my advice (i wish my own kids would!). Said that he always loved that he could tell i liked and respected him - despite the bat**** crazy stuff he often got up to (and it was crazy). Said that had been really important to him. From that day on, when supervising staff doing direct service who were worried they weren't making a difference i used that example and reinforced that we may never see it, but it's there. Big and small. Thank you for the difference you are making in the life of the young people you care, support and advocate for. We need more dazzlers.

Unless they're outta smokes.

My views are different to many but I reckon Duursma has every chance of being as good as Reid, or close to it. So pick 3 would do me. If we retain pick 6 I'd be taking Curtin, if he was there. EDIT: I really like Tarkyn O'Leary for a rookie spot, but I suspect he'll be drafted late.

I do too, but I don't see how we get there. I don't think any of the solutions proposed in this thread are going to be enough to get it done. The one slither of hope would be that Curtin could still be there at 6, and if that starts to seem likely, maybe they could be turned. I also think we'd prefer 6 + 11 than 2 or 3 plus a late first round pick. Two bites at the cherry and all that.

Draft guru Mick Ablett said on SEN this morning that he thinks three clubs will be involved with the pick one move, i.e. West Coast, North and us. If we can't get Reid I'd love to get Duursma by getting involved and somehow securing pick 3.

Here is Cal Twomey’s most recent form guide: https://www.afl.com.au/news/1054452/cal-twomeys-phantom-form-guide-top-draft-prospects-october-ranking

Haha really? Drugs in society is far worse then the two examples you've just brought, by an absolute mile. Not only has drugs completely torn apart families and children in society but its also taken the lives of many good people. I work in the child and abuse unit services in the region country areas and I'm seeing kids as young as 10 addicted and overdosing on the streets. Why? Because this is an intergenerational cycle that's been past down from their abusive parents or through the OOHC (out of home care system.) and its easy to get their hands on for a quick couple of bucks. It's cheap then ever on the streets. There are simply no comparisons. Two completely different set of complex issues.

We will keep 42 because it is the answer to the ultimate question of life, the Universe and Everything! As @Slartibartfast can attest.

Case-in-point: We selected Petty as a player whose type we didn’t require in terms of list balance, but he was too good to pass up when he was still there at our selection. Seems to have paid dividends.

These posts are always interesting looking back, Last year FoxSports had the following for example Melbourne (A-) IN: Grundy, Schache and Hunter OUT: Hunt Jackson Bedford Weideman Geelong (A+) IN: Bowes, Tahun and Ollie Henry. OUT: Cooper Stephens Collingwood (B) IN: Mitchell, McStay, Hill, Frampton OUT: Grundy, Ollie Henry

Why would we delist him, when he has been injured most of the season and hasn’t had the chance to show us his ability.

On the basis we might need another mid I would be moving Heaven and Earth to get Reid

Happy to death ride Adelaide, just in case.

Or pick 3 and a lower first rounder.

The October Rankings from Twomey https://www.afl.com.au/news/1054452/cal-twomeys-phantom-form-guide-top-draft-prospects-october-ranking 1. Harley Reid (Mid/Fwd) - Vic 2. Jed Walter * (Key Fwd - Vic) 3. Zane Duursma (Mid/Fwd - Vic) 4. Colby McKercher (Mid - Tas) 5. Nick Watson - (Small Fwd Vic) 6. Daniel Curtain - (Key Def/Fwd WA) 7. Ryley Sanders (Mid - Tas) 8. Nate Caddy - (Key Fwd/Mid - Vic) 9. Ethan Read * (Ruck - GC) 10. Connor O'Sullivan (Key Def/Fwd - Vic) 11. Caleb Windsor (Mid - Vic) 12. James Leake (Def- Tas) 13. Jordan Croft ** (Key Fwd - Vic) 14. Jake Rogers * - (Mid - GC) 15. Darcy Wilson - (Mid/Fwd - Vic) 16. Koltyn Tholstrup (Fwd/Mid - WA) 17. Lance Collard (Fwd - WA) 18. Riley Hardeman (Mid - WA) 19. Will McCabe ** (Key def/fwd SA) 20. Ollie Murphy (Key defender Vic) 21. Harry DeMattia (Mid/Fwd Vic) 22. Archie Roberts (Defender from Vic) 23. Tew Jiath (Defender from Vic) 24. Charlie Edwards (Mid from Vic) 25. Will Green (Ruck from Vic) 26. Mitch Edwards (Ruck from WA) 27. Archer Reid (Key forward from Vic) 28. George Stevens (midfielder from Vic) 29. Phoenix Gothard (small forward from Vic) 30. Taylor Goad (Ruck from SA) if we dont trade up, imagine O'Sullivan will be gone by our 2nd pick - Will they jump to Ollie Murphy for a big defender?

Don't be so pessimistic let's hope it's only a 3 month ban.

Like your thinking LT, for mine whilst I’d love Curtin or Sanders I think it’s a no brainer if Sanders is available at 6. Curtin won’t last till 11, O’Sullivan highly unlikely but a possibility, however I believe Murphy will be there. Sanders and O’Sullivan fantastic get but even Sanders and Murphy wouldn’t be to bad

Where have I ever said that drugs aren’t a major issue? Of course they are. But let’s be realistic here, AFL players dabbling in cocaine is very different to people in regional communities who are addicted to hard drugs. Many many highly paid professionals, not just footballers, take recreational drugs. It’s definitely not great, but in most cases it also doesn’t result in hardcore addiction. That doesn’t mean it can’t or that we should applaud drug use, but it’s no different to alcohol. For some it’s a major issue and for some it’s not. I think you know very well that ALL clubs have players who partake in recreational drugs. My point is that no player would leave a club because of drug use, and naively walk into another thinking nobody there would touch the stuff. Don’t you think it’s curious that Adelaide was keen to get Oliver early on in the trade period, knowing very well he had issues? As for that Adelaide camp, well it ruined their club for a very long time. So it was a major major issue.

Those are some good ins, but we're definitely on a bit of an injury rollercoaster. Sucks for Lampard. Fingers crossed that they really are just being careful with Harris and she can get some continuity soon. Some background to the game... Princes Park win-loss record: Melb 6-0; Nth 3-1 Melbourne's win-loss record against North: 5-1 (in 6 meetings, the average margin has been 7.3 points) North's 2023 formline: The Roos have 6 wins on the board, their only loss coming against Brisbane (4th) in R4. Their wins have been against the currently placed 6th, 9th, 10th, 13th, 15th and 16th (Melbourne's: 6th, 8th, 14th, 16th, 17th and 18th). Both teams have played and beaten Geelong (Melb: +49; Nth +9) and GWS (Melb: +77; Nth: +30). North has the stingiest defense in the league, with only 126 points conceeded, compared to 198 for the Dees. Randall is North's leading goalkicker with 14, next best is Shierlaw with 8. Selected teams avg. games experience: Melb 41.5; Nth 37.8 Last time they met: Our last match-up in the 2022B PF was a physical affair, with North putting immense pressure on our ball carriers. To some extent, it was the Roos' wayward kicking and failure to create good forward entries that put them out of the game (18 i50s in the 3rd for just 2 behinds), as the Demon defence stood firm. North played with a spare back, and Kearney in particular cleaned up behind the ball, while Garner had a typically prolific game. In the end, Paxman and Hanks pushed us across the line and a bit of Daisy brilliance sealed the deal for a 16-point win. Also notable given Harris is out is that she was limited in this game by an early injury, forcing the likes of Zanker into the ruck. This time round we're playing a second ruck anyway, though of course we'll still miss her as an aerial threat.

Welcome Shane O'Mac!

We would want more than a F1. A good deal might be WCE F1, and pick swaps for F2 & F3 plus #23 in this year's draft.

And they’re the envy of every club … going into this years Draft with the envious pick of 73…

I’m personally happy to go all chips in on pick 1 by offering 6, 11 and F1 although I’m doubtful that would get it done But I wouldn’t be keen on giving up 6 and 11 for anything less such as North’s pick 3 and a later first rounder To me, it seems like Reid is the clear number 1 pick and then there is a group of 6 or so players in the next bracket (Walters, Duursma, McKercher, Watson, Curtin, Sanders) and then another group before a more significant drop off (Caddy, O’Sullivan, Read, Windsor, Leake, Rodgers and potentially Wilson) I’d happily take one of each group with 6 and 11 and don’t think it’s worth over paying to move up slightly in either - particularly as we already moved from 14 to 11 to get into the second tier

If we get to draft night and the picks order hasn't changed and West Coast gets Reid at Pick 1, and then it comes to Pick 6 and Curtins still on the board, if West Coast offered their 2024 first round pick for it would you take it? I.e we'd have a higher pick next year (pick 1 or 2) but would miss getting a year of development in for a player this year...

I rate Mckercher very highly and think he would be a great pick for us. My concern is if we trade up to get him we are paying massive overs that we won’t get back if he chooses to join the Tassie team. We have already paid overs to get pick 11 and would be doing the same to get to pick 3. I assume the AFL will give the Tassie team access to one out of contract player from Tassie at each team(same thing applied to Suns and GWS) and that the compensation will be whatever they decide is market value.

Trade in if that’s the case. They’re kids. Take who is next on your board

North need as many of the best players as possible. I just don't think they're going to move from 2 and 3. That's an incredibly strong hand for a team rebuilding.

Whilst I still disagree with you still and could debate this further more I appreciate that you brought up some great point. I don't work in the resi care system, it gave me a starting point in the sector and simply got out of it because it was too full on and the system in itself is broken. Been doing this for 11 years and it certainly doesn't get any better.

Richmond B: Grimes, Broad, Baker HB: Vlastuin, Balta, D. Rioli C: Short, Prestia, McIntosh HF: Martin, Ryan, Bolton F: Pickett, Lynch, Clarke FOLL: Nankervis, Taranto, Hopper IC: Ross, Mansell, Graham, Koschitzke SUB: M. Rioli

GWS B: Cumming, Idun, Perryman HB: Buckley, Taylor, Ash C: Callaghan, Coniglio, Whitfield HF: Greene, Himmelberg, Daniels F: Cadman, Hogan, Bedford FOLL: Briggs, Green, Kelly IC: Ward, Riccardi, O'Halloran, Brown SUB: Haynes

Yep. I can see us still trading with the roos. Pick 6 and 11 for 3 and 18. 18 will end up around 22.

Turns out we were in talks with Roos & GC (early in FA period) which would have seen us give up 6, 14 & F1 for pick 3 and a '24 end of 1st rd pick (Nth compo).

He’s been playing with the Saints no wonder he’s been ordinary over the last few years.

In my view the best 4 players in this draft are Harley Reid, Zane Duursma, Colby McKercher and Riley Sanders, the fact we can almost certainly get Sanders with our pick 6 does make just keeping those picks appealing. if we could bring in Sanders and add some key back depth with Murphy i think that's a really solid outcome with these two picks. having said that i think trading up is a very real possibility

After todays news, perhaps an IQ test would be more appropriate.

1 and 42?

Worse than a camp where players reported downright racism? Worse than a captain yelling racist comments? Really? Recreational drug use is rife in AFL and basically any high paying industry. You think no Adelaide player touches the stuff? Come on!

Unless he's a culture killer and St Kilda couldn't wait to get him out the back door, then I can't see one ounce of downside in getting a player who once had a 30 possession/5 goal game and recorded 12 Brownlow votes in one particular year, for a future 3rd rounder. At worst he's simply replacing JJ or Harmes in the depth department at maybe 250K a year?? Sounds like a good bit of business at this stage.

Drafting for position is a very bad strategy; especially considering they are kids. Our flag was won with 3 traded in Key Position players; only TMac being a recruit from long ago. Also Petty has a contract.

Sounding unlikely we get pick 1, so we're likely going to draft with pick 6 and 11. Realistic targets; Pick 6, we'll take Sanders as a well rounded classy midfielder. Best performed midfielder of this crop thus far and looks like he'll have a good career. Might not have the high X factor game breaker ability of Reid or Duursma, but IMO will be more consistent and have a better career. Capable inside and outside, wins his own ball, great runner and lineman, can hit the scoreboard, has leadership potential. He'll be a winner. Other possibilities are Watson or Curtin sliding. Mckercher and Duursma will be gone. Pick 11, hoping for Darcy Wilson to add outside dash and skill to our midfielder or flanks in future. Other possibilities are Murphy, Windsor or Leake. O'Sullivan and Caddy will be gone.

What's the consensus on Nate Caddy? If McKercher is out of the frame, I'm warming to Nate as the slightly undersized key fwd (though he plays bigger, jumps at the ball) that we need (assuming Petty is out long term). He's far more dynamic than JVR and I like the way he plays with aggression and authority. Has a little bit of DH about him but in a good environment he has the tools to be a star (potentially C Curnow like). Feels like one we'll regret if we miss. Pretty sure he wouldn't last to 11 but not sure about him at 6. Anyone know anything more about him? Would definitely prefer him to Watson.

You're generous

I've taken the time to rate Ralph. D-

Good news is he is able to play golf after his foot injury.

Interesting to hear Tim Lamb confirm that we see pick 11 considerably more valuable than pick 14 and that's why we traded up. There must be a quality cliff somewhere after 11 and before 14 non northern-Academy and F/S players. He said we were confident of getting very good players at 6 and 11. Cal Twomey's September rankings: To 6: Reid, (Walter), Duursma, McKercher, Watson, Curtin, Sanders To 11: Caddy, (Read), O'Sullivan, (Croft), (Rogers), Murphy, Windsor, Wilson Following those sets through to 14 are (Leake), Hardeman, (McCabe), Tholstrup, De Mattia - that's 20 players altogether. Of course we may rate someone else in that top 11.

If that’s the case, I’d go Sanders and hope like he’ll O’Sullivan would be available at our next pick