Pure speculation i confess.: Hawthorn were fair game the next week as there wasnt the same fire in them. Had wwe got there.. we would have been sizzling !!

[quote name='Rhino Richards'

"we would have been easy meat for a primed Carlton side on a hot September afternoon."

Perhaps, Rhino,but don't forget,absolutely no-one tipped us for any of those finals that year.

Admittedly, the game we should have won v. Haw. was a bruising slog, but those boys were on a high. I reckon they were capable of keeping it up, and raising it for one more week. Carlton weren't in the same class as a fit Hawthorn, but we knocked the stuffing out of them.

Useless to speculate on the distant past, you may say, but my point in raising this topic was the value of team spirit. I'm praying Bails can infuse into the Demons in the same way "Swooper"did.

I dont agree. We went into the North final with good form and reasonable expectation that we could win. North had been shaky in the lead in. Sydney was gettable after they had lost to Hawthorn by 100 points in the first final. We may have been a slight underdog but never out of contention.

Hawthorn were on a high after the PF win but were physically and emotionally exhausted. They could not raise a yelp. Without Flower up forward, injuries to players and the self doubts a couple of players had we would have been struggling. The momentum bubble burst at half time at Waverley. Carlton were equal to Hawthron that year and top after the H&A and were the best team that year.

Its unrealistic to think that after you spend so much energy and emotion in match like that to back up one week later and do it again one week later. Not even the great Hawks in the 1980's could get close.

All sides have team spirit. Its only seems obvious when they are winning. Its having the skills sets and the belief in that ability that differentiates sides. Noone spoke of Geelong until they whipped Richmond by 150+ points. If that belief can be harnessed and it gains momentum like MFC did in 1987 and 2000...its potent.

aahhh I was ten and still have vague recollections of the Footscray game at the Whitten Oval. I was sitting on a fence in the forward pocket and remember how good it felt to make the finals after beating the doggies and having people left right and centre yelling out scores for the other game that was played that day that allowed us to make the finals.

The car ride back to Geelong on Prelim Final day after loosing to the Hawks was the worse ever. We'd (my old man and I) sat in the VFL members stand (my grandpa bought me a VFL/AFL membership for 20 years), we'd driven up from Geelong with two Hawks fans.... let me tell you it was a tough ride home for them. The old man turned the radio off as soon as we got in the car and we drove in silence all the way back to Geelong. They were jumping out there skin but couldn't enjoy it as the old man would have snotted them both and made them get there own way back to Geelong.

The two worst days I have seen though are the '88 and '00 grand final smashings. Much worse than the Prelim loss.

Swooper was fantastic at getting the side up week in week out, no one has been able to do it since.

The two worst days I have seen though are the '88 and '00 grand final smashings. Much worse than the Prelim loss.

I never thought we could win either the 1988 or 2000 GF. Both Hawthorn and Essendon were on their own in those years. After 5 minutes of both matches I knew we were gone. It was painful to sit through.

The Prelim Final we should have won and the loss cut deep at the time. It really hurt after the momentum It took me over an hour to get out of the car park at Waverley Park after the game.

I swore that I would never go to that Waverley hole again.......Never did. Can't even look at that last quarter again. It was one disaster after another.

it seems every MFC supporter was there that day, my family and I were there also but we were at the end right near the Grinter free. It was a free , but heres the thing I can never understand.

Jim Stynes ran across the mark , but that free then fell under the time wasting rule. My question is HOW CAN JIM STYNES WASTE TIME WHEN THE SIREN HAD GONE AND TIME WAS SUSPENDED WITH ONLY A KICK TO COME????????

How can you waste something that was not being counted???????

Spot on '849dennisj'! I have watched the video many times and the umpires not only missed hearing the siren once but failed to hear it the second time. It was loud enough! There should never have been the situation where a 15 metre penalty was on. The ball was dead with a shot for goal the only option.

No use quibbling over the 15m penalty. It was legitimate. There was only a split second between when the siren went and Stynes running through the mark. And if there was anyone i'd want kicking for goal from 50m, it was Buckenara. We had 4 players miss from within 30 metres in the last quarter. That's where it was lost.

Can't agree about the split second bit mo64 unless my video tape is out of sync. More like a split MINUTE.

I never thought we could win either the 1988 or 2000 GF. Both Hawthorn and Essendon were on their own in those years. After 5 minutes of both matches I knew we were gone. It was painful to sit through.

The Prelim Final we should have won and the loss cut deep at the time. It really hurt after the momentum It took me over an hour to get out of the car park at Waverley Park after the game.

I swore that I would never go to that Waverley hole again.......Never did. Can't even look at that last quarter again. It was one disaster after another.

Deep scars RR <_<

I have watched numerous replays and still cant believe we lost...worst day of my footballing life.

Spent Monday & Tuesday at work, head in hands, inconsolable, totally unfit to work.

Two ladies from the back office came up to me late Tuesday evening...so saddened and sorry for me about having broken up with my girlfriend the Friday before the game.

But as it happens in the aftermath of the preliminary final I had completely forgotten we'd broken up at all!

Despite the fact that the 1987 Prelim still ranks as one of the most horrific moments of my life (yes, possibly life hasn't been too bad), I've really enjoyed reading everyone's posts on the subject. I'm the first to admit I don't have the greatest strategic football brain, but I feel I have a fair grasp of the theatre and emotions associated with our great game and club. Reading your thoughts has rekindled some old emotions, and really some of my earliest football memories. I doubt anyone could script a crueller football match, I really do. A team's first finals series in 23 years, a champion in his first finals series with a chance to finish a storied career in a Grand Final and possibly a premiership, premiership hope snuffed out not in the dying seconds, but after the team was in front at the final siren. You just couldn't have a more painful game. I've tried to take consolation over the years in the thought that we spent our petrol against Hawthorn and would have come up short against Carlton the next week. That's probably right. But for the boy who sat at VFL Park on that grey day and cried by his shattered father's side after the final siren, there has been little consolation in that defeat then or since. Perhaps had the game not ended in such tragic circumstances, Jim Stynes would never have started his foundation and been able to touch so many lives for the better.

Thanks again for your comments. I know the preseason has been rotten thus far and I've offered no comment during the last few weeks, but stick by your team this season, folks, regardless of whether we're 2-20 or riding an emotional crest in our 150th year on our way to the top 4.

The most awful aspect of that game really was....that it was so close.. so close you could dare to taste the next game..not just ANY game; but a Grand Final!! it was there...just inches ahead of us.But it was only a phantom, a spectre, a laughing banshee. There it was...GONE !!! in an instant.

Am not sure how many pots were downed at the Mountain View, but they didnt work !!!!!!!!!!!! lol cest la vie

It was 6 in a row, D.O.F., and it was a fantastic effort.

It was an amazing effort really, lost somewhat in the PF result. After 16 games we were absolutely gone - 6 wins 10 losses and out of it. The turnaround came at VFL Park against Geelong - we got up by 40 points. The next week we pumped the Bears (54 points), and then a three goal win over the Tigers. In round 20 we gave Collingwood a hiding (55 points) and all of a sudden we were a chance. Round 21 was a night game at the 'G against the Eagles in their first season. They were still a chance as well. We pumped them by 61 but lost O'Dwyer and Grinter to suspension from that game. The next week was the famous Western Oval game (up by 15) and G Lyon broke the leg. As I said earlier, I've never seen a better effort from a Demons team over that 2 months. It brings a tear to the eye thinking about it now!

Can't agree about the split second bit mo64 unless my video tape is out of sync. More like a split MINUTE.

I must confess Bobby that i've never watched a replay of that game, and from where I was sitting in the nosebleed seats behind the goals where Buckenara kicked that goal, the siren didn't register until after Stynes ran through the mark. Before that I was screaming for someone to pick up Dipper, which is what Stynes was trying to do.

BTW, I still think Buckenara would have kicked it from 50m. He did finish with 5 for the day.

I must confess Bobby that i've never watched a replay of that game, and from where I was sitting in the nosebleed seats behind the goals where Buckenara kicked that goal, the siren didn't register until after Stynes ran through the mark. Before that I was screaming for someone to pick up Dipper, which is what Stynes was trying to do.

BTW, I still think Buckenara would have kicked it from 50m. He did finish with 5 for the day.

thanx to everyone for the trip down memory lane, as well as whats been discussed, i recall Dermie after having been well held for 3 qrts played a blinder of a final term when switched to CHB

Despite the fact that the 1987 Prelim still ranks as one of the most horrific moments of my life (yes, possibly life hasn't been too bad), I've really enjoyed reading everyone's posts on the subject. I'm the first to admit I don't have the greatest strategic football brain, but I feel I have a fair grasp of the theatre and emotions associated with our great game and club. Reading your thoughts has rekindled some old emotions, and really some of my earliest football memories. I doubt anyone could script a crueller football match, I really do. A team's first finals series in 23 years, a champion in his first finals series with a chance to finish a storied career in a Grand Final and possibly a premiership, premiership hope snuffed out not in the dying seconds, but after the team was in front at the final siren. You just couldn't have a more painful game. I've tried to take consolation over the years in the thought that we spent our petrol against Hawthorn and would have come up short against Carlton the next week. That's probably right. But for the boy who sat at VFL Park on that grey day and cried by his shattered father's side after the final siren, there has been little consolation in that defeat then or since. Perhaps had the game not ended in such tragic circumstances, Jim Stynes would never have started his foundation and been able to touch so many lives for the better.

Thanks again for your comments. I know the preseason has been rotten thus far and I've offered no comment during the last few weeks, but stick by your team this season, folks, regardless of whether we're 2-20 or riding an emotional crest in our 150th year on our way to the top 4.

Don't forget loosing our best forward in the last home and away round to a broken leg.... it was just such an amazing effort to get the Prelim and almost make the grannie. Eshold (spell) how the fark did he miss that goal!?

Don't forget loosing our best forward in the last home and away round to a broken leg.... it was just such an amazing effort to get the Prelim and almost make the grannie. Eshold (spell) how the fark did he miss that goal!?

Gary Lyon was a talented first year player who was well before his prime. Definite best 22 but you need to remember our most talented forward at that time was R. Flower.

Gary Lyon was a talented first year player who was well before his prime. Definite best 22 but you need to remember our most talented forward at that time was R. Flower.

I think alot of people forget that Garry won the equivelent to the NAB rising star (Was Norwich rising star in 86) and was easily our most talented player. i am sorry Rhino, Flower was our heart and soul, But Lyon was our Reiwoldt and was sadly missed that finals campaign.

Gary Lyon was a talented first year player who was well before his prime. Definite best 22 but you need to remember our most talented forward at that time was R. Flower.

Id be curious to know how often Robbie ever lined up on the forward line ?

Remember when Barrass lined Robbie up at fullback on Blight on the MCG against North! Boy, were we scraping the barrell at that time!!

Id be curious to know how often Robbie ever lined up on the forward line ?

A lot really you would remember the 87 elem v nth mel final and that whole year.

Id be curious to know how often Robbie ever lined up on the forward line ?

I only ever remember Sir R.Flower on the wing

Id be curious to know how often Robbie ever lined up on the forward line ?

Regularly through is career.

But in the 2nd half 1987 Flower had a hand/finger injury and played with painkillers.

In that great Western Oval R22 game and in the finals, Flower played up forward and was absolutely superb.

Flower made his name as a wingman without peer. But the truth is he was good enough to play almost anywhere. And sometimes did for the good of the team.

He had that famous State game against Glenndining where Flower tore him to pieces and was BOG at CHB!

I watched a LOT of "Flower Power" games and must say I can hardly remember his lining up at the sharper end. I saw him sometimes moved ( later in his carer) to the occasional forward role deeper up front but I have to say I can only recall the "very most" of his games on the wing.

Not arguing this point..just commenting

I watched a LOT of "Flower Power" games and must say I can hardly remember his lining up at the sharper end. I saw him sometimes moved ( later in his carer) to the occasional forward role deeper up front but I have to say I can only recall the "very most" of his games on the wing.

Not arguing this point..just commenting

Certainly after the finger injury in 1987 ( he got it caught in one of the old lace up jumpers - Steve McCann of NM from memory- which resulted in them being banned) he spent most of the rest of the season as a deep forward. We had quite a mobile forward line - blokes like Lyon and Warren Dean across half forward, with Flower, David Williams and Ricky Jackson closer to goal.

He was great wherever he played!