Well if we are to get a quick mid-fielder, Davey wouldn't need to be in the mid-field as much. He also plays his best footy in the forward line (as he seems to get lost in the middle). Davey would then become our permanent small forward.

Indeed.

Alwyn Davey, Andrew Lovett, Leroy Jetta and Courtney Dempsey

Obviously Aaron Davey is better than a couple of these blokes.

better than a couple?

I'll be happy at the end of the pre-season as long as Miller, Holland & Jamar are no longer on the list, yes they are all big tall KPP's, but they aren't good footballers and shouldn't be on the list. So if we could trade Miller and Jamar, for anything a donut will do, and de-list Holland I believe we have made a good start to our 2008 season

I'll be happy at the end of the pre-season as long as Miller, Holland & Jamar are no longer on the list, yes they are all big tall KPP's, but they aren't good footballers and shouldn't be on the list. So if we could trade Miller and Jamar, for anything a donut will do, and de-list Holland I believe we have made a good start to our 2008 season

Im thinking only Jamar will be gone.

Bailey was Millers coach at Mt. Gravatt when he was a kid. I would assume he was one of Mt. Gravatts star players. If you think there isn't some love there you are very silly.

Holland..... I don't know, I love big Bennie and he well and truely did his job this year whenever asked too. Thats shoulder injury may be his downfall.

Well I hear Collingwood were prepared to offer the Eagles a carton of Winnie Blues and a slab of Melbourne Bitter for Judd.

So we should be able to get at least a 6 pack for Jamar and a couple of half smoked cigerette butts and a set of used denches for Miller

I'd take Roughie in a heartbeat. He did some good things this season, and is developing well. He is also capable of playing down back (say as a CHB) and also second-line ruck. He regularly kick goals, has pretty good hands and just needs to get his radar fixed occasionally.

I heard him talk at a function once this year, and he said that he was not the first choice to be playing forward (with Williams out injured he got the gig), and would play anywhere to get get a game. If this is true, he either needs to step up into a number one choice in the forward line at the Hawks (likely), play back (possible), or exit (I think unlikely).

Don't let his mullet fool you - this kid from Leongatha came across really well, was great with the people afterwards and spent time chatting to the kids and stuff - seemed like a nice guy.

If we took him, he could be worth a fairly high pick.

Miller is useless, I cant see many more changes happening (those who have been told to go have obv already gone) and since we wont trade him I guess he will just linger for another year, his best is good and hopefully bailey can get that from him. As for Holland he is good for depth he can play either end when requested. As for Jamar might as well get rid of him if we get Meesen we will have white, PJ and Meesen, wouldnt dream of taking Jolly back if he was any good sydney wouldnt have gone after an aging everitt.

What is with the Dees history of stuffing around our ruck division? We really need to fix it! Here are the top 5 ruck stuff ups in the last 10 years.

5 - Getting rid of Stynes so white could be no. 1 forgetting the fact that a backup champion ruckman is quite handy.

4 - picking up paul johnson for a pick the ended up being Matt Rosa!

3 - Letting Jolly go to Sydney and become the half of the best ruck duo in the afl.

2 - Watching Simmo go to tigers and almost have an all Australian year. (For Craig ellis no less, who missed the first few games of the season for belting Nieta the year before!)

1 - Well there is no 1 yet, but with jamar trades looming and a very old and tired jeff white I feel like the no. 1 spot is about to be filled out. Can't wait to see what they do to keep the ruck curse going!

Easy bender, out of all that only Simmonds was a real blunder, and he was sent to the Dockers not the Tigers

Jolly was desperate to leave and really isn't all that good anyway, Jason Ball made that duo at Sydney look good in 05.

Stynes might have been pushed aside 1 year to early but would it really have made any difference to our perfomance in '99? He would have been rooted by 2000 and even if he was still serviceable would it have changed the GF result? A 10 goal loss to the best team possibly of all time.

On top of that Matt Rosa looks a bit soft to me, not conviced about him as a player yet.

What is with the Dees history of stuffing around our ruck division? We really need to fix it! Here are the top 5 ruck stuff ups in the last 10 years.

5 - Getting rid of Stynes so white could be no. 1 forgetting the fact that a backup champion ruckman is quite handy.

4 - picking up paul johnson for a pick the ended up being Matt Rosa!

3 - Letting Jolly go to Sydney and become the half of the best ruck duo in the afl.

2 - Watching Simmo go to tigers and almost have an all Australian year. (For Craig ellis no less, who missed the first few games of the season for belting Nieta the year before!)

1 - Well there is no 1 yet, but with jamar trades looming and a very old and tired jeff white I feel like the no. 1 spot is about to be filled out. Can't wait to see what they do to keep the ruck curse going!

4 - In fairness, Rosa is a journeyman midfielder at best. I know he's young, and he kicks a few goals, but there is nothing genuinely exciting about him. He's not that quick, he's not a particularly skillful player... just a solid journeyman. Admittedly PJ is not doing much to excite me either.

3 - Jolly is rubbish. Dunks said it; Sydney got him to be their No. 1 ruckman, and then 2 years later they pick up a near-retirement Everitt. Evidently he hasn't got the job done.

2 - Yes. That certainly seems less than prudent in hindsight.

What is with the Dees history of stuffing around our ruck division? We really need to fix it! Here are the top 5 ruck stuff ups in the last 10 years.

5 - Getting rid of Stynes so white could be no. 1 forgetting the fact that a backup champion ruckman is quite handy.

4 - picking up paul johnson for a pick the ended up being Matt Rosa!

3 - Letting Jolly go to Sydney and become the half of the best ruck duo in the afl.

2 - Watching Simmo go to tigers and almost have an all Australian year. (For Craig ellis no less, who missed the first few games of the season for belting Nieta the year before!)

1 - Well there is no 1 yet, but with jamar trades looming and a very old and tired jeff white I feel like the no. 1 spot is about to be filled out. Can't wait to see what they do to keep the ruck curse going!

How much more wrong could you be?

1. Stynes retired!

2. We may not have drafted Rosa anyway, and the jury is still out on PJ.

3. Jolly wanted out. We did get Bell out of the deal though.

4. Simmons actually went to the Dockers, and besides was never going to be our No. 1 ruck.

The only one I agree with you on is Craig Ellis.We have been spoiled in the ruck department in the last 20 years though, and that is probably why we are going to suffer in the not to distant future. Weve only had 3 No.1 ruckmen in nearly 20 years, O'Dwyer, Stynes and White.

I agree "re draft Molan" we have been spoilt over my lifetime for ruck options, doing alright if you get get rid of/let go of blokes like simonds, jolly etc clubs like st kilda, carlton cannot find someone to play in the ruck to save themselves.

I think Stynes has said in the past he was pretty much forced to retire despite him thinking he had more in the tank, and when big Jim tells you he has more in the tank I think you have to believe him. He did play 6000 games in a row

I think Stynes has said in the past he was pretty much forced to retire despite him thinking he had more in the tank, and when big Jim tells you he has more in the tank I think you have to believe him. He did play 6000 games in a row

I dont beleive that for a second. If you saw him getting out of a car the very next season, you wouldn't either.

Stynes was pushed aside. It put White in a tough 1 man show which may have taken miles of his long term career. Although that was no. 5 so its not the worst thing they have done.

Matt Rosa may not be a champ yet, but PJ is a bit of a joke. poor tap ability, slow, bad below the knees, can't play full forward, can’t take a strong overhead mark and too slow for the backline. Now I agree he could come along with a bit more time but a slick midfielder like Rosa who averaged more then 22 possies, kicks goals and had an amazing final series would be my pick. And yes we may not have picked him.

The jolly one is simple. Look at the premiers of the last few years. They have big body, heavy duty ruck duos. Coz/Seaby - Ottens/king - Lade/brogan - Charman/keating. Jolly may have wanted to go, but letting a big ruckman like that walk out for a mid sized defender has caused allot of crap coming from out midfield. Although I do like Belly…how can you not!

And yes we did trade Simmo to freo but he ended up at richmond. I'm sure if he stayed at Freo he would have still been good. Where he went doesn’t matter it’s the consistent trading of big body ruckman that are invaluable.

That’s why I think we have been so badly hurt in that area and need to fix it up for future success.

Stynes was pushed aside. It put White in a tough 1 man show which may have taken miles of his long term career. Although that was no. 5 so its not the worst thing they have done.

Matt Rosa may not be a champ yet, but PJ is a bit of a joke. poor tap ability, slow, bad below the knees, can't play full forward, can’t take a strong overhead mark and too slow for the backline. Now I agree he could come along with a bit more time but a slick midfielder like Rosa who averaged more then 22 possies, kicks goals and had an amazing final series would be my pick. And yes we may not have picked him.

The jolly one is simple. Look at the premiers of the last few years. They have big body, heavy duty ruck duos. Coz/Seaby - Ottens/king - Lade/brogan - Charman/keating. Jolly may have wanted to go, but letting a big ruckman like that walk out for a mid sized defender has caused allot of crap coming from out midfield. Although I do like Belly…how can you not!

And yes we did trade Simmo to freo but he ended up at richmond. I'm sure if he stayed at Freo he would have still been good. Where he went doesn’t matter it’s the consistent trading of big body ruckman that are invaluable.

That’s why I think we have been so badly hurt in that area and need to fix it up for future success.

And what did you suppose we do if someone wants to leave? Just let them go on the PSD and not get anything for them.

Jolly wants to come back to Melbourne...as far as I know we didn't try too hard to keep him.

I am confident we are going to get a very good footballer for free in the PSD

Whether that is Roughead, Buchanan, Cousins etc.. I dont know

Jolly wants to come back to Melbourne...as far as I know we didn't try too hard to keep him.

I wouldnt take him back. I think we are better to develop a ruckman with our kids.I'm in the camp of not trying to hang on to disgruntled players. Talk to them, and if you can't get them on side ,then try to get something for them.

I am confident we are going to get a very good footballer for free in the PSD

Whether that is Roughead, Buchanan, Cousins etc.. I dont know

You'd kill for Roughead.

That solves all our post Neitz issues.

Would love Cousins in the red and blue.

I lvoe it how you complain about not doing anything to try to fix our rucks, yet say that we shouldn't have traded a high 2nd round pick for Johnson.

Jolly is an ordinary footballer. Wanted to leave, so we traded him while we still had him under contract. We traded him for a first round pick, which was used for Lynden Dunn, not Bell.

I also like it how you say that he is part of the best ruck duo in the league, yet then name 4 others who are better!!!

Simmonds also wanted to leave for more opportunities. There is a myth that he was traded for just Craig Ellis. He was traded for Ellis and pick 26 in a three way deal with Freo and the Dogs (Daniel Bandy being the other player involved). We didn't use this pick well, which is why people ignore it. But the deal in isolation was not that bad.

Jolly and Simmonds were victims of Jeff White's ability and ethic. He was such a good ruckman, and he was able to run out a whole game which was incredible. He was also very durable, which meant that the opportunities for the second ruckman were always limited. They both asked to be traded to get more game time.

We have not been hurt in the past in the ruck because White is such a warrior. But with White's career coming to an end soon, we need to develop ruckmen to come through the ranks.

You'd kill for Roughead.

That solves all our post Neitz issues.

Would love Cousins in the red and blue.

I wasnt supposed to say this, but I will

Ben Cousins will be delisted next week by the Eagles

And will definitely be in the PSD

So a good chance we will get him at pick 3.

we have #4 !!

A couple of things:

1. Bell was drafted in the first round via the Woewodin & Heffernan trades. Dunn was picked up with the pick from the Jolly trade.

2. I wouldn't take Jolly back. He has proven he is not a number one ruckman, which is what we need to replace White in a couple of years. If Meesen is that chap, then we must not let him slip through our fingers.

we have #3