The Soccer thread

[Macca 17,007]

47 minutes ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

An interesting point raised in the Jacobin article @Maccais that there were regulations that prohibited football club board members from being paid a salary, and that lifting this paved the way for the era of private ownership. Not to divert the conversation too off topic, this does highlight the earnings available and global attractiveness of both AFL and what is now the English Premier League.

I'm not sure if there is a regulatory framework in place in the AFL, but there have been salaried presidents (George Harris) and private ownership. However, AFL being a quaint product of the Antipodes has made the monied powers more reticent to invest in the clubs. When private buyers have invested, they have either been shysters (Christopher Skase and Geoffrey Edelsten), disinterested (Reuben Pelerman) or a means to keep a struggling club afloat (Mike Willessee, Bob Ansett and the North Melbourne share float). 

AFL has gone down the TV rights path, but while it has teetered on the precipice of going full blown corporate, it's never pulled the trigger entirely. I think it's telling that Rupert decided to sink his claws into the then ARL, instead of the AFL in the mid 90's. The ability to sell the former to boardrooms beyond the borders of Australia were clearly greater. 

I recently read a book called 'Hired: Six Months Undercover in Low Wage Britain', and Blackpool, one of the cities mentioned in the article whose club had fallen from grace thanks to the agglomeration of wealth by the 'big 7' clubs, featured heavily. From what was once a beachside holiday destination to a city struggling with homelessness, alcoholism and chronic diseases like obesity, diabetes and heart disease, this seems to be another kick in the guts for communities that largely voted for Brexit wanting something, ANYTHING, to change (and were pointed mostly in the wrong direction by shameless charlatans). While football isn't life, it seems brutally unfair that this will now happen while the same race baiting Tories are basically silent in the background.

 

The realities of life tells me the rich get richer and not much can be done to stop it

It's not a defeatist attitude either ... it's like death & taxes. But inevitable outcomes based on extreme amounts of money can't be ignored.  Or fought against most of the time

Football/Soccer will balance itself out if the league goes ahead.  The game won't be destroyed and the fans are already being screwed over anyway so that part of it won't change.  Watch them get on board to support their own team ... it will happen

These billionaire owners will get what they want (more money) by cutting themselves off from the lesser lights.  Business decisions such as these are made every day of the week

To be honest I don't really have a vested interest nor does this sort of stuff get me outraged.

My interest in sport extends to be able to watch the best versus the best so a super league delivers that interest.  But not with a lot of passion!

Edited April 20, 2021 by Macca

[Diamond_Jim 12,598]

The various football fiefdoms have not exactly covered themselves in glory

FIFA full of crooks

EPL raiding world football to the extent that outside Europe leagues are just a shadow of their former selves (look at South America)

And of course it was these fiefdoms who invited the foxes into their lair anyway.

[Macca 17,007]

4 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

The various football fiefdoms have not exactly covered themselves in glory

FIFA full of crooks

EPL raiding world football to the extent that outside Europe leagues are just a shadow of their former selves (look at South America)

And of course it was these fiefdoms who invited the foxes into their lair anyway.

Good points DJ

They've created a monster with all these billionaire owners

And just on that, if the super league is a going concern, get ready for more billionaires buying up more clubs and then wanting to enter the fray

When there are huge profits to be made, they might start queueing up!

Edited April 20, 2021 by Macca

[Rab D Nesbitt 8,399]

Don't know how they can have a super league without the famous Glasgow Rangers. 

That aside, this much vilified midweek league is just the end game of allowing oligarchs and hedge funds to own football clubs. Blind Freddie could have seen this day coming. It's all well and good criticising the football clubs concerned but as the Jurgen Klopp interview today illustrates these decisions have been made unilaterally by their owners, not the season ticket holders, players or managers. 

Anyone truly disgusted by the news should be aiming their outrage at the governing bodies of Spain, Italy and England as well as UEFA. who have allowed these people into the game and then bent over backwards to accommodate their demands. As far as I'm concerned the Champion League lost it's credibility when it started allowing teams that finished as low as fourth in their domestic league to qualify and then have them drop into the UEFA Cup if they fall at the first hurdle. 

Fans want integrity ? Go back to having the champions alone of each European nation qualify for the continent's premier knockout tournament. 

Not good enough to win your domestic league ? That's what the Europa League is for. 

 

 

[Guest]

Perhaps fatalism isn’t the appropriate response just yet @Macca! ??

All Six Premier League Clubs Withdraw from Super League Plan

[Macca 17,007]

5 minutes ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

Perhaps fatalism isn’t the appropriate response just yet @Macca! ??

All Six Premier League Clubs Withdraw from Super League Plan

The back down might put paid to any future leagues of this type. 

Germany has a 51% rule which restricts the ownership doing as it pleases (which partly explains why Bayern & Dortmund weren't part of the breakaway group)

Other countries might now follow suit with the 51% rule.  Google will help explain that rule further.  Not a foolproof measure but it wouldn't hurt

But as stated in earlier posts, I had doubts that it would go ahead anyway.  Fan power wins out

At least the Arsenal management had the good grace to apologise but the clubs involved have lost some goodwill

Anyway, that was a whirlwind few days!

[Diamond_Jim 12,598]

Does this go down as one of those.... "it sounded like a good idea at the time " moments.

The irony is that it has strengthened the position of the various associations at least in the short term

[Macca 17,007]

1 minute ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Does this go down as one of those.... "it sounded like a good idea at the time " moments.

The irony is that it has strengthened the position of the various associations at least in the short term

The big clubs will continue to push for a more lucrative deal with regards to the Champions League.  Re participation and more $$$$'s

But it's hard to see 'guaranteed' involvement ... maybe some sort of compromised arrangement could be forthcoming down the track

[Macca 17,007]

There's also a bit of talk around that the whole concept (Super League) was leaked prematurely ... but not purposely

Thus the shoddy PR & marketing.

[Grapeviney 9,731]

5 hours ago, Macca said:

There's also a bit of talk around that the whole concept (Super League) was leaked prematurely ... but not purposely

It's hard to tell, Macca. The fact that it got out the night before the announcement of the new CL format suggests otherwise. It was an ambush I reckon, poorly executed. There's also talk that UEFA have found extra $$ to basically bribe the rebels back into the fold.

I'm surprised at how quickly the Prem clubs caved; surely they would have anticipated a significant backlash given the hostile reception it's received when canvassed previously. 

And it was always hard to imagine FIFA following through with the threat to ban SL players from the WC - their mates in Qatar would not have liked that idea one bit. 

Anyway, it's over now and I'm glad. They joy of watching, say, Barca v Juve comes, in part, from the fact that it only happens occasionally. Start fixturing them 5 times a year - including some dead rubbers - and the romance and hype will dissipate pretty quickly. 

Poor Jose - the only super league manager to be axed, without a ball being kicked. 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Grapeviney

[Macca 17,007]

10 minutes ago, Grapeviney said:

It's hard to tell, Macca. The fact that it got out the night before the announcement of the new CL format suggests otherwise. It was an ambush I reckon, poorly executed. There's also talk that UEFA have found extra $$ to basically bribe the rebels back into the fold.

I'm surprised at how quickly the Prem clubs caved; surely they would have anticipated a significant backlash given the hostile reception it's received when canvassed previously. 

And it was always hard to imagine FIFA following through with the threat to ban SL players from the WC - their mates in Qatar would not have liked that idea one bit. 

Anyway, it's over now and I'm glad. They joy of watching, say, Barca v Juve comes, in part, from the fact that it only happens occasionally. Start fixturing them 5 times a year - including some dead rubbers - and the romance and hype will dissipate pretty quickly. 

Poor Jose - the only super league manager to be axed, without a ball being kicked. 

There's a lot that we don't and will probably never know GV

Apparently there were law suits taken out against UEFA & FIFA to stop them from banning players on the same day that the story broke ... if that's true then the announcement was probably planned to the day

But it was a shambles right from the start ... quite amateurish all things considered.

For instance, the group could have appeased the fans somehow.  If anything, the announcement alienated fans.  Out of touch?

But reading about the levels of debt that Real Madrid, Juventus and a couple of others are carrying, it might have just been a desperate move and a shot in the dark

[Macca 17,007]

3 hours ago, Grapeviney said:

Poor Jose - the only super league manager to be axed, without a ball being kicked. 

lol

3 hours ago, Grapeviney said:

Anyway, it's over now and I'm glad. They joy of watching, say, Barca v Juve comes, in part, from the fact that it only happens occasionally. Start fixturing them 5 times a year - including some dead rubbers - and the romance and hype will dissipate pretty quickly.

Could easily have happened that way GV although I was imagining that the SL players would have been allowed to play in World Cups but maybe not the domestic or Champions League for the Super League teams (or players)

So being a theatre-watcher with big time soccer I was half-hoping the league got going just to see whether it could work or not ... plus, West Ham could have actually been able to win something! (the ulterior motive) 

The SL games could have been taken all over the world including here in Oz

18 regular season games with crossover finals would mean that the teams would only meet a maximum of 3 times.  And each game would have been a big match-up.  

Allowing for derbies here's how I would have broken up the 12 teams (season 1 with 4 other 'big' teams to be added to each group)

Group A: Spurs,  Gunners,  Chelsea,  Real,  Atletico,  Barca

Group B: United,  City,  Reds,  Milan,  Inter,  Juve

Or, all the teams from England could be in the same group with all the Italian & Spanish teams in the other group

But a season with the SL clubs only playing a minimum of 18 games is way less than half the amount of games that the teams play now

However, each of the teams could have played another 10 games against each team in the opposite group (bringing the regular season up to 28 games) Again, all potential big match-ups.

The issue with dead rubbers in the last part of the season would still remain though.  Despite the strength of the teams there would still be 2 wooden-spooners. 

But they (the SL hierarchy) were almost certainly banking on the teams playing in the domestic leagues as well (settled through the courts?) ... another 38 games plus all the cups

But would the SL clubs play full strength teams in the domestic leagues?  ... far too many engagements for that to happen

The whole concept was full of holes

Edited April 21, 2021 by Macca

[Grapeviney 9,731]

^^^ All valid points, Macca.

Interesting that you mention overseas matches, including here, as that was one of the points of real hostility on the spurs  forums I’ve been browsing - that it would become a travelling circus through Asia and the Americas, not all that different to the pre-season tournament that’s played now.

I probably have ulterior motives, though, too; as you say, someone would have to finish bottom of the SL, and I didn’t fancy opening up Spurs’ schedule and seeing our next 4 matches being Barca, City, Inter, Liverpool et al.

From a personal perspective, I just want as many games as possible - it keeps me going when the footy season is finished, and I haven’t missed any of the 241 games we’ve played across various competitions this year.  

Edited April 21, 2021 by Grapeviney

[Macca 17,007]

So we can put a full stop on the whole idea ... 3 days later it's done & dusted (3 Days of the Condor football style ... replace the battle for the oil with a Super League and all it's up front money)

The other factor was that there were so many other stories attached to the main story.  Millions of fans traumatised only to be put at ease as if it never happened

And even though the guts of the story lasted less than 3 days,  there will be books written about the super-mini saga.  A lot happened in a very short space of time

Juventus refuse to concede or give up on the idea ... they are carrying €385m of debt as of June 30 2020 but they do have large revenues.  But that revenue is also dependant on Champions League income and they are currently lying 4th on the Serie A table (2pts ahead of Napoli & 4 points ahead of Lazio) Nervous times ahead for Juve

So that large injection of cash bankrolled by JP Morgan in the failed SL venture would have been more than handy

Real Madrid are carrying a debt of €354m,  Barca €488m,  United £455m & Spurs £604m

Of course, that debt can be managed with large income streams but because of Covid,  the debts have increased a great deal due to the loss of income from the crowds that can't attend the games

The big clubs have been hit hard where as the smaller clubs that are more dependant on Broadcast money are getting by as the broadcast money has kept flowing

 

[Macca 17,007]

Well the Hammers got found out in the end but if we can eke out a point or 3 tonight we'll end up with 63-65 points and a Europa league spot.

Can't ask for too much more than that in a tough league competing against 6 money-rich clubs (with deep squads)

Looks like Chelsea & Liverpool will secure CL spots if both win tonight but if either team slips up Leicester could dart through and secure a spot ... up against Spurs who are also playing for a possible Europa league spot

I'd like to see Leicester get a CL spot but Chelsea are playing Villa with Liverpool up against Palace.  Both should win

[layzie 33,863]

Leicester the unlucky ones. Would have loved to see the grab a spot. It's not my favourite thing about the game when a top 4 finish is seen as better than an FA Cup. Was an amazing achievement, best Cup final I've seen in years. Would have been more than deserving of a CL spot.

[layzie 33,863]

UEFA to scrap the away goals rule in European comps. Thoughts?

[At Least I Saw a Flag 5,250]

Socceroos v Chinese Taipei. World Cup Qualifier.

Socceroos won 5 - 1. Terrible match. Like watching the U14s playing the U12s.

 

[Rab D Nesbitt 8,399]

So Ange has landed at Parkheid as the fallback to Eddie Howe. It's obviously a fantastic move for him and I think he's certainly deserving of the opportunity. That said he will be given very little time to find his feet and unless he can get the soapdodgers off to a flying start, and that will include Champions League qualification through the early preliminary rounds, the fans will be out for his head.

I wonder if Kevin Muscat will follow him as his assistant as he will know our game well after his time playing at Rangers. Anything would be better than returning to the A League to be honest and I think he's based in the UK at the moment anyway.  

Anyway, I sincerely wish him the best in finishing second next season. 

[Macca 17,007]

Euro's kicked off last night with Italy/Turkey opener ... and the Azzurri absolutely dominated

Here are the highlights (not sure how long the video upload stays up for - maybe a couple of days?) ... I'll try and post up some other highlights when they are available (time permitting)

 

 

[Dee Zephyr 19,267]

Best wishes to Christian Eriksen, was shocked  to read Eriksen collapsed during play overnight.  Awake and stable from all reports. 

[Macca 17,007]

4 hours ago, Dee Zephyr said:

Best wishes to Christian Eriksen, was shocked  to read Eriksen collapsed during play overnight.  Awake and stable from all reports. 

The latest news has Christian Eriksen in a stable condition and the players have spoken to him.  You have to wonder what brought things on to have his pulse stop and then needing to be revived

Could have been worse as what happened might not have happened in a public place

[Macca 17,007]

On a brighter note England play Croatia at the fan friendly time of 11pm tonight ... if you haven't got access to the matches a quick google search will take you to a few streaming sites.  TalkSport & the BBC are probably covering the games from an audio point of view.  I subscribe to tunein radio and the BBC have recently joined up with tunein

 

 

 

 

[Macca 17,007]

The Euro's got it's first must-watch-replay last night with the Netherlands-Ukraine game last night ... and the big guns are already starting to rack up the wins

 

 

 

 

 

[layzie 33,863]

Some good games there, North Macedonia took it up to Austria but it wasn’t enough.