Jeff White - another year left and on the wane. At 195cm struggles against the real tall talls

Mark Jamar - slow and not imposing

Paul Johnson - a back up at best

Shane Neaves - an untried rookie and back up to the back ATM

Where do we go from here when Collingwood fans say they won in the ruck last night for the first time in living memory?

White and jamar last night we pathetic, white had 8 disposals or something like that, i actually thought we were rucking against cox and everit, thats how dismal they were.

White has been bad all year, he plays for himself, hit outs he does win usually are ineffective, hates the contested pssession and loves standing on the wing be himself.

Johnson should never have been dropped.

What did Hawthorn do this time last year – they played Taylor at first ruck when Everitt went off the rails and bingo, Taylor is twice as good a player this year. Play PJ first ruck and find out once and for all what he can do with the experience.

I don’t know if anyone remembers the SEN commentary from the Sydney game a few weeks ago but it was a classic.

Daniel Harford: Did Melbourne really think more of Jamar than Jolly

Reply: Yes they did.

Daniel Harford: What really?

Reply: Yes

Daniel Harford: Oh!

Almost made me drive off the road in hysterics.

I'm glad someone else noticed that Jamar had more possesions that JW last night. He had more effective taps too.

I got the feeling very early that the coaching staff thought we had that part of the game wrapped up before it had even started, and therefore didn't put any planning into it. (a black mark for Riley).

Jamar was very good in tight, but yes, he does need to make his size 'felt' around the stoppages and present more around the ground.

As far as trading etc. goes, I don't think our ruck stocks are in any condition to think about delisting who we have.

We know we are NOT going to get a 'walk up starter' in this years draft, nor will we be able to trade for anyone better than who we currently have.

So all three must be retained and Neaves. elevated.

We should concentrate on building on the development work that has already been put into these players rather than 'punting' on 'fixing' someone elses problems with a trade, or drafting some untried kid (unless he is a rookie).

We can't continue to 'throw out' partially developed ruckman and give the benefits of their development to other teams!! We know JW is not going to be around forever, so now more than ever, we have to keep the experience we have.

Go Dees - Onward and Upward.

i thought jamar was quite good last nite.. nearly brought the house down with that screamer he nearly took. should take first ruck next week

i thought jamar was quite good last nite.. nearly brought the house down with that screamer he nearly took. should take first ruck next week

Haha, yeah I enjoyed that, and agree that we need to start moving away from relying so heavily on Jeff White.

I don't get along to Sandy games, is Neaves any good, or actually developing?

i thought jamar was quite good last nite.. nearly brought the house down with that screamer he nearly took. should take first ruck next week

I thought Jamar was pretty good last week as well, but then he had no opposition. I agree - should be first ruck next week. I've been thinking, with White's athleticism, maybe we could use him as a 'ruck-rover' kind of thing, not doing the major ruck work but gathering possessions up forward or down back or something. Kind of like Goodes or Blake at St Kilda. Then ruck Jamar and PJ?

And by the way, that screamer was a mark

Let Whitey finish his career as a forward, he's not effective enough as a ruckman anymore, bring in PJ.

I thought Jamar was pretty good last week as well, but then he had no opposition. I agree - should be first ruck next week. I've been thinking, with White's athleticism, maybe we could use him as a 'ruck-rover' kind of thing, not doing the major ruck work but gathering possessions up forward or down back or something. Kind of like Goodes or Blake at St Kilda. Then ruck Jamar and PJ?

And by the way, that screamer was a mark

Keep in mind, Jamar looked promising last year and did squat all first half of the year.

Give him first ruck and tell him to get to as much contests as possible. Give him the responsiblity. Jamar and PJ must ruck in tandem.

And STOP playing White in the ruck for the love of god. Play him as a tall midfielder or CHB. He gets ragged doll too easy.

we need to move heaven and Hell ( for which I thought we had the franchise btw !! lol ) to get an "effective" ruck !! if that means going camping for the next three weeks to secure one of the two young gun rucks than so be it !!

All this talk about midf ileders is irrelevant if we have no ruck to give them first use!!

Priorites people....priorities

edit:

as afterthought... there's hardly anyone left to play anyway!!