When Faced with Adversity, You Fight Back and Win

[DeeSpencer 26,675]

32 minutes ago, Macca said:

You are a self confessed pessimist and true to form, your miserable prognostications come to the fore again

I don't agree

I just need to see more than the suggestion we can replace Tracc, Gus and ANB with children and not go backwards (and stay backwards) for a while. Even if that might end up the best possible option.

The age ladder correlates with the afl ladder unless a team gets truly over the hill like Richmond this year or has a great run of health and things come together super quickly like Hawthorn.

But even if you study Hawthorn they’ve had their backline together for years. Their midfield core is 3 x 23+ year olds who have played 60 games together and their forward line was bolster by Chol, Ginnivan, Gunston and Massimo on the wing.

If I take a glass half full approach to the Dees backline I can get a pretty decent 6-7 guys together for at least one year more of May (with Petty, Lever, McVee, Salem, Bowey and maybe Howes).

Can do the same with the midfield if Rivers gets midfield fit, Oliver, Viney and at least 1 more ready to go depth inclusion. Gawn. Good wings.

The forwards - Pickett, JVR, Chandler, Fritsch.. is anyone really buying Turner or Jeffo making genuine impact in 2025?

Give me Chol, Ginnivan, Gunston, D’Ambrosio and things could be looking up with the picks coming.

In 3 years since the flag we’ve added zero best 22 recruits. We now have more cap and picks but who could be optimistic about our ability to replace senior players and fill the gaps in our team?

[Macca 17,127]

22 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

I just need to see more than the suggestion we can replace Tracc, Gus and ANB with children and not go backwards (and stay backwards) for a while. Even if that might end up the best possible option.

You're the same person who never shuts up about going to the draft instead of swapping picks for established talent

You're a true believer (in the draft) and now they are children?

As usual, you change your own argument to try and win an argument. 

You rarely, if ever, like anyone else's posts.  

24,000k likes received and 170 likes given?  By far, that's the lowest ratio on this site.

[Little Goffy 14,963]

1 hour ago, Macca said:

Well I was talking to someone who just completely dismissed the crux of my argument.  Quite literally, their comment was about just giving up

Clubs can win big despite having issues running through a club

Not ideal, but In fact, the FD & players can just get on with it and stay focused.  

Ok, the thread topic might look a bit over-the-top but the content can show that a club can stay strong and still win

Of course, I'm not for a minute saying that the club doesn't have a few issues.  I'm no company man

But on the football side of things, we can build and contend again

I see where you're coming from. That 'and sometimes you don't' comment definitely could read as 'nah, don't bother', particularly to the person it was aimed at. In fact, that's how I'm reading it now, too.

I guess picture it as if I was walking by and heard just that part of the conversation and it triggered my PTSD from watching really 'confident' people wreak havoc while looking down on anyone who expressed doubts. Which is clearly not what you're doing here. Because you're not a public service executive! 

I call it splash damage. Like when Akermanis referred to the 'monkey's upstairs' and it was interpreted as racist because the particular execs upstairs were Indigenous, when he was of course referring to media execs generally.

Anyway, returning to your point in 100% agreement; the margin between 11 wins and 15 wins is not even two goals a game so the people shouting about a megacrisis drive me insane. Not least because it is a distraction from the real task at hand.

We almost need to bring out the Rick and Morty psychiatrist scene here. 

'Being a football club is work. Some people are okay with that. Some people would rather turn their football club into a pickle, and die. Everyone gets to choose.'

'And if you have any friends or family who [play for Essendon] and would like to stop [playing for Essendon], here's my card.'

[DeeSpencer 26,675]

10 minutes ago, Macca said:

You're the same person who never shuts up about going to the draft instead of swapping picks for established talent

You're a true believer (in the draft) and now they are children?

As usual, you change your own argument to try and win an argument. 

You are full of it and the proof of that is that you rarely ever like anyone else's posts.  It's just your own voice that you hear

24,000k likes received and 170 likes given?  By far, that's the lowest ratio on this site

You're all over the shop

 

I believe in regularly turning over the list with multiple picks (including mature age guys on prove it deals) rather than blocking it up with list cloggers. I actually think it was Roos who said you have to make 10+ changes a year now.

The last few years we’ve had a best 22 and a number of solid depth players. So I wasn’t in favour of carrying more. We’ve now lost a lot of that depth. If we expect multiple kids to be the best 28 or so on the list we will go backwards.

I believe in JT and we should always arm him with good picks. If we have to entirely hit the draft so be it.

You’re the one ignoring the importance of recruiting mature best 22 players and our failure to do so. How you’ve decided I’m the one who doesn’t engage with other opinions is beyond me. 

(Also I take no notice of the likes system of a footy forum, couldn’t care less how many I have given or received. I have as much interest in that as I do Peter Lawrence’s poll. I’m sorry I didn’t know we were voting for class captain in grade 4???)

[Macca 17,127]

58 minutes ago, Little Goffy said:

I see where you're coming from. That 'and sometimes you don't' comment definitely could read as 'nah, don't bother', particularly to the person it was aimed at. In fact, that's how I'm reading it now, too.

I guess picture it as if I was walking by and heard just that part of the conversation and it triggered my PTSD from watching really 'confident' people wreak havoc while looking down on anyone who expressed doubts. Which is clearly not what you're doing here. Because you're not a public service executive! 

I call it splash damage. Like when Akermanis referred to the 'monkey's upstairs' and it was interpreted as racist because the particular execs upstairs were Indigenous, when he was of course referring to media execs generally.

Anyway, returning to your point in 100% agreement; the margin between 11 wins and 15 wins is not even two goals a game so the people shouting about a megacrisis drive me insane. Not least because it is a distraction from the real task at hand.

We almost need to bring out the Rick and Morty psychiatrist scene here. 

'Being a football club is work. Some people are okay with that. Some people would rather turn their football club into a pickle, and die. Everyone gets to choose.'

'And if you have any friends or family who [play for Essendon] and would like to stop [playing for Essendon], here's my card.'

Contrary views are great and I would fight for the rights of those views and the people saying it

But we're allowed to disagree

I played a fair bit of local sport and you were never allowed to give up

So does that rule apply to us spectators?  Well, kind of, because there is going to be disagreement in that area

Edited August 30, 2024 by Macca

[Macca 17,127]

50 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

I believe in regularly turning over the list with multiple picks (including mature age guys on prove it deals) rather than blocking it up with list cloggers. I actually think it was Roos who said you have to make 10+ changes a year now.

The last few years we’ve had a best 22 and a number of solid depth players. So I wasn’t in favour of carrying more. We’ve now lost a lot of that depth. If we expect multiple kids to be the best 28 or so on the list we will go backwards.

I believe in JT and we should always arm him with good picks. If we have to entirely hit the draft so be it.

You’re the one ignoring the importance of recruiting mature best 22 players and our failure to do so. How you’ve decided I’m the one who doesn’t engage with other opinions is beyond me. 

(Also I take no notice of the likes system of a footy forum, couldn’t care less how many I have given or received. I have as much interest in that as I do Peter Lawrence’s poll. I’m sorry I didn’t know we were voting for class captain in grade 4???)

I'm not ruling out trading picks for established talent, but my focus for now was JT turning picks into gold

As for your disdain for giving out likes, it says a lot about you as a person

You only listen to your own voice as there have been 10's of thousands of posts that you could have liked but chose not to give credit

Edited August 30, 2024 by Macca

[DeeSpencer 26,675]

4 minutes ago, Macca said:

I'm not ruling out trading picks for established talent, but my focus for now was JT turning picks into gold

As for your disdain for giving out likes, it says a lot about you as a person

You're in your category (alone) 

You only listen to your own voice as there have been 10's of thousands of posts that you could have liked but chose not to give credit

It's all about you isn't it?

If you’d like me to use more of the sites functions I could use the report button for personal abuse?

But given I really don’t care about keeping score of internet points I won’t waste the mods time.

Are you upset I interrupted your thread that came to the conclusion that Jason Taylor is good so hopefully drafts more good players because that will be good?

[Macca 17,127]

37 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

 

What about player abuse?  You've got a lot of people well covered there

You can have a contrary view but I don't have to agree with it

So let's agree to disagree.  If you reckon that we've got no hope, you may as well give up now.  I mean, why put yourself through all that pain

Personally, I don't for a minute believe we are heading for oblivion

Let's see your views after the trade week.  I'm betting that you will change your tune (again) 

Edited August 30, 2024 by Macca

[Macca 17,127]

On 29/08/2024 at 11:45, Stevienic23 said:

I read the topic headline and immediately thought of this

 

Loved it but when he talked about his own shortcomings, it got a bit weepy

What would have worked better (for me) is how he ended up as head coach and all the struggles to get there (knock backs etc)

[Macca 17,127]

10 hours ago, rpfc said:

I reckon one would have to be a rusted on Democrat to be inspired by that

 

9 hours ago, BDA said:

 

Yes, now that's impactful but I could never vote for him

Mitt Romney, yes!!

[Deelectable 1,043]

I'm of the strong belief all of this scrutiny will galvanise our club and help take us to the next level. Trac will stay and there will be new talent. Some coaches will leave and that is due. With a modicum of luck we will be top 4 next season. Go Demons!!

[Macca 17,127]

43 minutes ago, Deelectable said:

I'm of the strong belief all of this scrutiny will galvanise our club and help take us to the next level. Trac will stay and there will be new talent. Some coaches will leave and that is due. With a modicum of luck we will be top 4 next season. Go Demons!!

You might be right with Trac as a decent deal seems like a long shot

I'm a forgiving soul so if we can pursuade him into at least playing next season (and then re-evaluate) most, if not all, will get behind him

It's been an absolute roller-coaster of emotions ranging from anger to dissolutionment to acceptance, back to anger and then all the way back to that he's possibly playing for us again

I couldn't blame anyone for lashing out and those not lashing out are possibly suppressing their true feelings

We're allowed to change our minds

But if a deal does eventuate, c'est la vie

I reckon we win either way especially if the deal is a good one or if Petracca nuckles down and gives us his best

 

[Grr-owl 1,258]

Well said, Macca. Pull together, not apart. Grow a pair. Get better. Take the pain.

[Macca 17,127]

1 minute ago, Grr-owl said:

Well said, Macca. Pull together, not apart. Grow a pair. Get better. Take the pain.

Thanks Grr-owl

And yes, the footy dept. need to be hard at ... in many ways, their work now begins even though it's already the off-season

Recruit, Recruit, Recruit and get an absolute commitment from the playing group.  All our players need to make sure they are in good nick before pre-season begins.  No excuses

Goodwin, McQualter, Williams, Richardson, Chaplin, Taylor, Lamb & Co need to put together a list to challenge again

There's going to be around 10 changes to the list with all the retirements & delistments but (in my view) I'd be keeping T-Mac & Melksham around to add that all-important experience and back-up

Won't cost the club a great deal and if we do bring in a number of youngsters, we'll need a nice balance on the list

I'm football dept. and player talent focused as all the rest of the noise will die down eventually anyway

[layzie 34,528]

3 hours ago, Grr-owl said:

Well said, Macca. Pull together, not apart. Grow a pair. Get better. Take the pain.

And fight back and win.

[Roost it far 10,136]

We desperately need to adjust our game plan and we all know that will take adding some skill and pace. It’s all about mids for most of us. We’re not going to find backup for Max next year unless we trade out Petracca for McKay/TDK so it’s likely JVR again. I’m disappointed that it appears we’re not linked to any mid 20’s quality mid from another club. If we start next season with the 21 midfield again and think that running Rivers through there is going to be enough I think we’ll struggle to do much better that 6-10. 

[Macca 17,127]

31 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

We desperately need to adjust our game plan and we all know that will take adding some skill and pace. It’s all about mids for most of us. We’re not going to find backup for Max next year unless we trade out Petracca for McKay/TDK so it’s likely JVR again. I’m disappointed that it appears we’re not linked to any mid 20’s quality mid from another club. If we start next season with the 21 midfield again and think that running Rivers through there is going to be enough I think we’ll struggle to do much better that 6-10. 

We need to rebuild the midfield with A grade quality talent (at least 2 add-ons)

Another proper ruckman who can eventually take over from Max but in the meantime, we do need a forward ruck of some description

I'm expecting the next 2 off-seasons to be rebuilding years and therefore have low expectations in the W/L column for 2025. A gap year with maybe 10 wins maximum

But 2026 can see finals again but it's mandatory that we recruit well

The above is based on the club losing 1 or 2 decent players with a good haul of decent draft picks to play with coming back as a consequence

If everyone stays, we'll still need to bolster the midfield and our overall rucking & forward/ruck still needs to be addressed.  And we might get to 12-14 wins

Petracca/Kozzie has a +/- factor of 3 or 4 wins

Same as losing Brayshaw & Petracca this season cost us some wins.  Injuries to A grade players does matter

As it stands, pick 5 should net us a decent midfielder and we might even move the pick up if needs be

If Petracca & Kozzie stay I can see the club moving forward our 1st round pick from next year (some club may bite) ... so another pick in the 8-12 range could net us another quality midfielder

Edited August 30, 2024 by Macca

[Roost it far 10,136]

6 hours ago, Macca said:

We need to rebuild the midfield with A grade quality talent (at least 2 add-ons)

Another proper ruckman who can eventually take over from Max but in the meantime, we do need a forward ruck of some description

I'm expecting the next 2 off-seasons to be rebuilding years and therefore have low expectations in the W/L column for 2025. A gap year with maybe 10 wins maximum

But 2026 can see finals again but it's mandatory that we recruit well

The above is based on the club losing 1 or 2 decent players with a good haul of decent draft picks to play with coming back as a consequence

If everyone stays, we'll still need to bolster the midfield and our overall rucking & forward/ruck still needs to be addressed.  And we might get to 12-14 wins

Petracca/Kozzie has a +/- factor of 3 or 4 wins

Same as losing Brayshaw & Petracca this season cost us some wins.  Injuries to A grade players does matter

As it stands, pick 5 should net us a decent midfielder and we might even move the pick up if needs be

If Petracca & Kozzie stay I can see the club moving forward our 1st round pick from next year (some club may bite) ... so another pick in the 8-12 range could net us another quality midfielder

Seems like you took that walk I suggested earlier in the year Macca!

😂😘

[Macca 17,127]

12 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

Seems like you took that walk I suggested earlier in the year Macca!

😂😘

You also completely changed your mind a few times during the season haha (don't worry, I took a sabbatical but kept an eye on your posts)

Your prediction of 1st to 12th (about as wide as anyone could go) was wrong anyway ... we finished 14th!!!  Happy days!!

Don't ever take up gambling, Roost it (and not too much sun either, that can frazzle your brain) ... free advice

But footy brings out the passion and like I've always said, most footy fans are extremely optimistic and extremely pessimistic at the same time.  One win or one loss and we're either ecstatic or despondent 

Our season went South when Brayshaw retired.  Oliver was way below his best, Petty was average only and Melk was just ok

So what I needed to happen to get my prediction right, didn't happen

We needed a number of things going our way but when Petracca went down, that was it

I remain realistic but my theory of X amount of good players equals X amount of wins will be tested in 2025

Interesting note 

We had 5 AA's & another 5 that were in the mix for AA honours in 2021

Yet this year it was Max only with no others going close

We'll push for finals next season if somehow Petracca & Kozzie stay but if one or both go, we can defer to our MVP (Jason Taylor) to help us rebuild

It's not easy replacing A grade talent so cross your fingers JT is still on his game

I'm backing him in as he's never let us down yet ... in fact, why doesn't the FD trust him to pick out the odd gem from the 3rd round of draftees? Even the 4th round

I'll take that over recycling NQR's 

If we swap picks for talent, it should be for players who are automatic selections

 

[Roost it far 10,136]

29 minutes ago, Macca said:

You also completely changed your mind a few times during the season haha (don't worry, I took a sabbatical but kept an eye on your posts)

Your prediction of 1st to 12th (about as wide as anyone could go) was wrong anyway ... we finished 14th!!!  Happy days!!

Don't ever take up gambling, Roost it (and not too much sun either, that can frazzle your brain) ... free advice

But footy brings out the passion and like I've always said, most footy fans are extremely optimistic and extremely pessimistic at the same time.  One win or one loss and we're either ecstatic or despondent 

Our season went South when Brayshaw retired.  Oliver was way below his best, Petty was average only and Melk was just ok

So what I needed to happen to get my prediction right, didn't happen

We needed a number of things going our way but when Petracca went down, that was it

I remain realistic but my theory of X amount of good players equals X amount of wins will be tested in 2025

Interesting note 

We had 5 AA's & another 5 that were in the mix for AA honours in 2021

Yet this year it was Max only with no others going close

We'll push for finals next season if somehow Petracca & Kozzie stay but if one or both go, we can defer to our MVP (Jason Taylor) to help us rebuild

It's not easy replacing A grade talent so cross your fingers JT is still on his game

I'm backing him in as he's never let us down yet ... in fact, why doesn't the FD trust him to pick out the odd gem from the 3rd round of draftees? Even the 4th round

I'll take that over recycling NQR's 

If we swap picks for talent, it should be for players who are automatic selections

 

I did flip flop a few times through the season. The Adelaide wins probably got me a bit over excited from a whole club perspective and I excused the loss to Brisbane the week after. The youngsters gave me hope for next year but that’s evaporating into thin air thanks to the last few weeks. I’m hoping trade period gets me up and about again. Oh and I’m a terrible gambler hence I never do it. 

Edited August 31, 2024 by Roost it far

[Macca 17,127]

3 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

I did flip flop a few times through the season. The Adelaide wins probably got me a bit over excited from a whole club perspective and I excused the loss to Brisbane the week after. The youngsters gave me hope for next year but that’s evaporating into thin air thanks to the last few weeks. I’m hoping trade period gets me up and about again. Oh and I’m a terrible gambler hence I never do it. 

Ha ha, yeah, we live in hope, Roost it 🙄😁

Side note : I like how Tholstrup gets to a lot of contests ... another JT trait when he picks midfielder types.  Sounds straight forward but easier said than done at the top level

And in breaking news (speaking of gambling)

A promenant member of this site just got his horse over the line a few minutes ago in the G1 Memsie Stakes 

No names, no pack drill !! (But he'll be a happy man!)

[Roost it far 10,136]

Just now, Macca said:

Ha ha, yeah, we live in hope, Roost it 🙄😁

Side note : I like how Tholstrup gets to a lot of contests ... another JT trait when he picks midfielder types.  Sounds straight forward but easier said than done at the top level

And in breaking news (speaking of gambling)

A promenant member of this site just got his horse over the line a few minutes ago in the G1 Memsie Stakes 

No names, no pack drill !! (But he'll be a happy man!)

I’m happy to put a few dollars on when I get a sound too but clearly this one wasn’t shared!

[Macca 17,127]

Just now, Roost it far said:

I’m happy to put a few dollars on when I get a sound too but clearly this one wasn’t shared!

It kinda was if you want to explore the site (not easy to find though) 

No clues!! Haha

[Roost it far 10,136]

2 minutes ago, Macca said:

Ha ha, yeah, we live in hope, Roost it 🙄😁

Side note : I like how Tholstrup gets to a lot of contests ... another JT trait when he picks midfielder types.  Sounds straight forward but easier said than done at the top level

And in breaking news (speaking of gambling)

A promenant member of this site just got his horse over the line a few minutes ago in the G1 Memsie Stakes 

No names, no pack drill !! (But he'll be a happy man!)

Was the horse Pinstripe by chance, a great mate of mine is part owner!

[Macca 17,127]

Just now, Roost it far said:

Was the horse Pinstripe by chance, a great mate of mine is part owner!

Well, it's a small world then 

This mate of yours will know who I'm talking about

But keep it on the quiet, Roost it (isn't that typical of the horse racing industry ... 'keep it quiet' haha)