45 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

One of those ringleaders who escaped the ire... well now runs the club.

Irony mych

Well, we don't know anything for sure do we? But we can speculate

What is happening on the field right now mirrors what happened at '186' and the Neeld era

And we now know that the players back then were taking us nowhere.

Same story now? It looks that way to me

History repeats. The players know that they'll get off the hook and the pressure will go to Goodwin

Overpaid, underworked & lazy. The new modern type of offense requires a lot of gut running & sprinting to position

Our players simply do not want to work hard and it's the older, experienced players leading the revolt

And we are letting them off the hook by simply blaming Goodwin. In fact, it's dumb analysis, really dumb

Goodwin didn't learn how to not coach overnight. On the contrary, he's trying to deploy a new system that the players are too lazy to adopt

Coach killers

Edited April 18Apr 18 by Macca

3 hours ago, Roost it far said:

I think you’ll be surprised who will come to us this off season

Player, coaching or office Roost?

1 hour ago, KozzyCan said:

Are you always this patronising? Good lord. This is like watching someone have an argument with themselves in the shower.

Are you sure you're not projecting... seems to me that you come across as that type of person (arguing with yourself in the shower)

Patrinising? You've made that up

You've said the same thing about Goodwin about a 1000 times. Yet, not a word about the players who wander about without a care in the world (getting handsomely paid as well of course)

You need a more balanced approach

So start blaming the players

Edited April 18Apr 18 by Macca

12 hours ago, KozzyCan said:

Yeah I don't buy the 'change is hard' thing at all. Plenty of teams change the way they play over a single off-season.

So why are you blaming Goodwin?

You've got everything A-about

More like 'Time to Go - Half the List'

Apart from 10-15 NQR's, we've got about another 10 players who are at the crossroads

• May & Max are nearing the end

• Petty hasn't played well since he was linked with Adelaide

• T-Mac is on his last legs

• Salem has lost a yard or 2 and has very few dynamic possessions

• Viney is fast becoming a liability

• Oliver is in another world

• Petracca is well down on his best

• Fritsch has gone backwards

• JVR plays like a fish out of water

• Melksham is nearly done

• Sparrow - what does he do?

• Rivers is wasteful and is not improving

• Spargo can't get the ball

etc etc etc

The end comes quickly sometimes but the collective drop off has been alarming

So back to Goodwin ... he's not the chief recruiter is he?

The list he has been handed this season has been exposed as not good enough

But Goodwin to get it in the neck and no one else? Makes no sense

I’m still at a complete loss as to why we haven’t been able to put in any decent effort.

Is it possible that Goodwins fate has already been determined and all players are effectively aware of it?

1 minute ago, GS_1905 said:

I’m still at a complete loss as to why we haven’t been able to put in any decent effort.

Is it possible that Goodwins fate has already been determined and all players are effectively aware of it?

That's a possibility* but if we one by one start looking at each of the players who are established in the seniors, there are issues everywhere

Leg speed, disposal efficiency, speed of ball movement and sharing of the ball (at pace) has all dropped off to alarming levels

And if we add up all the off-field stuff, it just looks like it has taken it's toll. Dispirited, disjointed, dishevelled and dysfunctional

And we're the type of club that can bottom out quickly. And then stay down

Of course there's always hope but I'm not sure where our next win is coming from

If it's tomorrow, rejoice!

*It would be decent pay out to Goodwin even if it's only 12 months of his contract. At least $1Million I'd say. Maybe a fair bit more

25 minutes ago, Macca said:

More like 'Time to Go - Half the List'

Apart from 10-15 NQR's, we've got about another 10 players who are at the crossroads

• May & Max are nearing the end

• Petty hasn't played well since he was linked with Adelaide

• T-Mac is on his last legs

• Salem has lost a yard or 2 and has very few dynamic possessions

• Viney is fast becoming a liability

• Oliver is in another world

• Petracca is well down on his best

• Fritsch has gone backwards

• JVR plays like a fish out of water

• Melksham is nearly done

• Sparrow - what does he do?

• Rivers is wasteful and is not improving

• Spargo can't get the ball

etc etc etc

The end comes quickly sometimes but the collective drop off has been alarming

So back to Goodwin ... he's not the chief recruiter is he?

The list he has been handed this season has been exposed as not good enough

But Goodwin to get it in the neck and no one else? Makes no sense

I think you're right with some of these appraisals. Nevertheless some of these are still young players and even some of the older ones could be playing better than they are.

But looking at the body language it seems like team spirit is shot. The selfish carry on of a number of senior players has had a corrosive effect. And that's selfishness on and off the field. Even a diehard Demon like Viney cooking up that payday extension wasn't a good look. Every man for himself is the vibe from quite a few.

My perception of their body language and playing way below their capability accords with something you said about a work to rule. I think they don't want to win as a protest to force a change of coach.

If that's the case it must be pretty bad internally to have them resort to that. If this is correct they must collectively think that literally any other option would be better.

Or maybe it's a combination of ageing players, entitled selfish players, incapable players and poor coaching?

I'll go again tomorrow, but I won't bring my kids. I'm dreading it, like the prospect of voluntarily submitting to a punishment beating.

4 minutes ago, Hellfire Dub said:

I think you're right with some of these appraisals. Nevertheless some of these are still young players and even some of the older ones could be playing better than they are.

But looking at the body language it seems like team spirit is shot. The selfish carry on of a number of senior players has had a corrosive effect. And that's selfishness on and off the field. Even a diehard Demon like Viney cooking up that payday extension wasn't a good look. Every man for himself is the vibe from quite a few.

My perception of their body language and playing way below their capability accords with something you said about a work to rule. I think they don't want to win as a protest to force a change of coach.

If that's the case it must be pretty bad internally to have them resort to that. If this is correct they must collectively think that literally any other option would be better.

Or maybe it's a combination of ageing players, entitled selfish players, incapable players and poor coaching?

I'll go again tomorrow, but I won't bring my kids. I'm dreading it, like the prospect of voluntarily submitting to a punishment beating.

If the players are protesting, they should forfeit any money that they've received (and future monies)

What I find astonishing on this site is many here are constantly blaming Goodwin for the players poor form

Would we blame Roos or RDB or Northey/Daniher if a player has a shocker? I think not

Goodwin is an easy head to kick (and it's a cop out)

It’s coach and players

Max viney and may a year older

Clarry has had his issues and highly doubtful he’ll recover his best form

Trac will come good I think

Big drop off from petty Fritsch rivers etc

And I haven’t seen anything from goody to suggest he’s the man for the rebuild. A new voice needed imv

7 hours ago, RedLegs23 said:

Player, coaching or office Roost?

To clarify, I don't have inside knowledge. I'm just predicting the club with Smith at the helm and a capable CEO we will be able to attract the coach and assistants we need. I'd say it's Goodwin's last year.

6 hours ago, Macca said:

More like 'Time to Go - Half the List'

Apart from 10-15 NQR's, we've got about another 10 players who are at the crossroads

• May & Max are nearing the end

• Petty hasn't played well since he was linked with Adelaide

• T-Mac is on his last legs

• Salem has lost a yard or 2 and has very few dynamic possessions

• Viney is fast becoming a liability

• Oliver is in another world

• Petracca is well down on his best

• Fritsch has gone backwards

• JVR plays like a fish out of water

• Melksham is nearly done

• Sparrow - what does he do?

• Rivers is wasteful and is not improving

• Spargo can't get the ball

etc etc etc

The end comes quickly sometimes but the collective drop off has been alarming

So back to Goodwin ... he's not the chief recruiter is he?

The list he has been handed this season has been exposed as not good enough

But Goodwin to get it in the neck and no one else? Makes no sense

When a large percentage or almost all your players regress year on year, particularly the young ones I'd look at the coach/s first. We had the best contest and defence game in the comp, it won us a flag in 21 and bar some unfortunate injuries probably would of won us another in 23, add in a top 4 finish in 22 and that's 3 damn good years playing a brand that stacks up beautifully in finals. Then along comes the fast transition game, we recruit some outside running types, bomb out in 24 and then change the game style in 25. In my humble opinion we didn't need to change our plan, it needed some tweaking. We needed to start lowering our eyes forward of centre and get our forwards to start leading at the ball carrier. Use the stars to their best ability, get them extracting and feeding the ball out to the young en's to use their skills to hit up leading targets inside 50. Is it really that complicated? In this case the ball carrier would hopefully be Windsor, Bowey, Lindsay, Langford, basically the best kickers in the team. We look all at sea out there atm, it's not helping that an ageing May looks done and Lever can't get on the park. On top of that Gawn is fast losing his dominance. Throw in the fact that Oliver, Petracca and Viney are woeful disposers of the ball and we have what we have. Personally I blame the coach/s. It's there job to know the players and get the best out of them. For mine Goodwin's cards are marked, it's time for some fresh eyes and a few ego's to be taken down a peg or 2.

Edited April 18Apr 18 by Roost it far

9 hours ago, Macca said:

My take is that the players have adopted a work-to-rule attitude much like what we saw in 2011, 2012 & 2013

Back then we blamed the coaching as well and let the players off the hook until '186'

When that happened we turned on the players and backed Neeld to the hilt. Until we turned on Neeld and wanted to blame him for everything (some still do) and once again, we let the players off the hook

... until Roos arrived and then we had the final proof that the players were the issue all along (Roos effectively cast aside 35 players from 2013 to 2016) There might have only been 8-10 players who survived the Roos cull

But upon arrival, Roos stated that the players managers were an issue (i.e. the players ruled the roost)

And they are doing it again but the lazy way of evaluating things is to just blame Goodwin

Anyway, tomorrow is D-Day, Gonzo. Whichever way one wants to look at it

Are they? Well Goodwin has the power to drop the players, set the parameters for culture and drive change, he is the head coach. Or has he become too close to some of the players and allowed standards for some to drop? This is in addition to our gameplan, skills etc.

If a player is out of form, then that is the fault of the player himself, not the coach

Take Viney for instance, completely out of touch and is just wasting the ball when he does get it. Should be dropped but the cupboard is bare. His replacement worse

So he'll keep getting a game for now but don't expect any improvement. The only person who can fix Viney is Viney

Blaming the coach is idiotic and short-sighted. A new voice won't improve Viney

Numerous other examples are in the same boat. Our senior players are letting themselves down and they are letting the jumper and the club down

Blame them, not the bloke who is trying to coach them. Right now, they are uncoachable

Work-to-rule is in operation and it's clear to see. The big contract players are taking the money under false pretenses

They should hand the money back until a point is reached where they are giving 100%

Freeholders & Coach killers

1 minute ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Are they? Well Goodwin has the power to drop the players, set the parameters for culture and drive change, he is the head coach. Or has he become too close to some of the players and allowed standards for some to drop? This is in addition to our gameplan, skills etc.

Yes they are

Fritsch & JVR are gone

Expect more although, the replacements are even worse. We've got 10 or 15 out of form and another 15 NQR's

4 minutes ago, Macca said:

If a player is out of form, then that is the fault of the player himself, not the coach

Take Viney for instance, completely out of touch and is just wasting the ball when he does get it. Should be dropped but the cupboard is bare. His replacement worse

So he'll keep getting a game for now but don't expect any improvement. The only person who can fix Viney is Viney

Blaming the coach is idiotic and short-sighted. A new voice won't improve Viney

Numerous other examples are in the same boat. Our senior players are letting themselves down and they are letting the jumper and the club down

Blame them, not the bloke who is trying to coach them. Right now, they are uncoachable

Work-to-rule is in operation and it's clear to see. The big contract players are taking the money under false pretenses

They should hand the money back until a point is reached where they are giving 100%

Freeholders & Coach killers

So with JVR who is a developing KPF it’s his fault not the lack of coaching and gameplan which gives him little chance to succeed?

25 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

To clarify, I don't have inside knowledge. I'm just predicting the club with Smith at the helm and a capable CEO we will be able to attract the coach and assistants we need. I'd say it's Goodwin's last year.

Yeah no probs. Cheers for that mate

7 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

When a large percentage or almost all your players regress year on year, particularly the young ones I'd look at the coach/s first. We had the best contest and defence game in the comp, it won us a flag in 21 and bar some unfortunate injuries probably would of won us another in 23, add in a top 4 finish in 22 and that's 3 damn good years playing a brand that stacks up beautifully in finals. Then along comes the fast transition game, we recruit some outside running types, bomb out in 24 and then change the game style in 25. In my humble opinion we didn't need to change our plan, it needed some tweaking. We needed to start lowering our eyes forward of centre and get our forwards to start leading at the ball carrier. Use the stars to their best ability, get them extracting and feeding the ball out to the young en's to use their skills to hit up leading targets inside 50. Is it really that complicated? In this case the ball carrier would hopefully be Windsor, Bowey, Lindsay, Langford, basically the best kickers in the team. We look all at sea out there atm, it's not helping that an ageing May looks done and Lever can't get on the park. On top of that Gawn is fast losing his dominance. Throw in the fact that Oliver, Petracca and Viney are woeful disposers of the ball and we have what we have. Personally I blame the coach/s. It's there job to know the players and get the best out of them. For mine Goodwin's cards are marked, it's time for some fresh eyes and a few ego's to be taken down a peg or 2.

In my view we've got a list of lazy freeloaders taking money under false pretenses

We need to rebuild and trade out (if we can) the players who have decided to lay down on the job

Or play them at Casey like Fritsch & JVR

Goodwin needs to weild the axe. He's got nothing to lose as he's heading for the axe himself

1 minute ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

So with JVR who is a developing KPF it’s his fault not the lack of coaching and gameplan which gives him little chance to succeed?

He's a soft footballer who should have been dropped last year

Won't go near a contest and looks frightened

11 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Are they? Well Goodwin has the power to drop the players, set the parameters for culture and drive change, he is the head coach. Or has he become too close to some of the players and allowed standards for some to drop? This is in addition to our gameplan, skills etc.

He just dropped 2 players who won't go near a contest (JVR & Fritsch) ... expect more of the same but the cupboard is bare

Casey is full of NQR's who are not AFL standard

We need a lot of new players

And it is incumbent on all the players to get the best our of themselves

If they want to sook it up, trade them out. Getting paid $Millions for what?

To lay down on the job? A lazy, undisciplined and unaccountable group

That's what we are stuck with

Edited April 18Apr 18 by Macca

1 minute ago, Macca said:

He's a soft footballer who should have been dropped last year

Won't go near a contest and looks frightened

Disagree Macca. Goodwin is the one who is soft, I'm a massive fan of Fritsch and resisted calls for him to be dropped earlier this season citing gameplan and our fwd 50 entries were to blame. Yes he was lazy defensively, but when public challenged he responded and subsequently gets dropped the following week. Why hadn’t Goodwin dropped one of / combination of Viney, Oliver or Sparrow. Does he think that they’re not the problem or can’t bring himself to do it?

Would happily drop Viney, he's a fading star and I don't think there's much of a place for him in our new system unless he can add more to his game. Give Rivers and our young players more opportunity in the midfield.

Its true our depth is poor. Shame we lost Bedford and Jordon, amongst others. Funny how those guys are flourishing at new clubs under different systems.

1 minute ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Disagree Macca. Goodwin is the one who is soft, I'm a massive fan of Fritsch and resisted calls for him to be dropped earlier this season citing gameplan and our fwd 50 entries were to blame. Yes he was lazy defensively, but when public challenged he responded and subsequently gets dropped the following week. Why hadn’t Goodwin dropped one of / combination of Viney, Oliver or Sparrow. Does he think that they’re not the problem or can’t bring himself to do it?

I'm on the side of the coach as the players are bludging

Freeloaders & coach killers

11 hours ago, Wrecker45 said:

I have been a massive Goody supporter but take this to the bank, we can't sack him until we appoint a CEO.

It doesn't matter if we miraculously win the next 10 games straight he is gone.

There are alot of Melbourne ex players who's names don't normally come up that want him gone and it has nothing to do with the game plan.

Hopefully we sort this mess up before Kalani White makes his decision.

Make no mistake Green will sack him as soon as he he has a CEO. They will probably do a pre planned review first

Might be the first coach to be sacked by AI