being at the game, you see the side in a completely different way.

on the tv, we don't look nearly as slight as we do in person - where has the likes of bruce and johnstone's muscle definition, particularly in the upper body, disappeared to this year?

at the moment, i honestly can't see us winning a game. we lack heart, we clearly lack conditioning, and we seem to lack any desire.

6. matthew bate - not the worst, not the best. tries hard, but does some stupid things, like handballing to stationary players time and time again. came off injured, i think?

7. brad miller - tried hard up forward, was completely out-pointed down back. can't mark the ball in front of his face but always wants to take it on the chest, meaning that when he doesn't have a break it always gets punched away from him. at least he tried hard.

11. paul johnson - can't mark, but other than that was one of few who consistently put in. would love to see him continue to be experimented with as a key back - he reads the play well, is good at ground level, and punches well from behind.

12. colin sylvia - will clearly play over 100 games for the red and the blue, by dint of being a high draft pick alone. i think if he was a 4th round pick this year would be his last at the mfc. will never be anything other than a fair-to-ordinary player.

13. adem yze - pleasingly, put his head over the ball. at one stage he had the opportunity to soccer off the ground but instead you could see him think about it, and then pick it up, and deliver it cleverly to a forward-moving player. was good to see.

14. lynden dunn - yep, he's a good n. looks a natural footballer, which is something he has over the likes of miller. his coralling of barry on the hff at one stage was the sort of instinctive defensive work that can't be teached, but is naturally intuitive.

15. ricky pettard - looks a footballer. tough, courageous, thinks before he disposes of it instead of simply blazing away, works hard off the ball to be a further option, and can clamp down on his man. should replace ward/brown/bell as the running hbf of choice for the rest of his time at the mfc.

16. travis johnstone - lazy, ineffective, and can't cope with a tag. looks frustrated as he doesn't have support from teammates or umpires with constant scragging, but doesn't look bothered enough to try and run to the next contest.

17. chris johnson - has no awareness at this level. he tries really hard and his disposal is quite clean, but dithers with the ball.

20. colin garland - should not have been playing, ideally. he's a long way off being afl-ready, but should continue to get a taste of senior action while there's no other options with neitz and robbo out.

21. daniel bell - personally, i'd be happy if he never played for the mfc ever again. has no lateral movement, dithers with the pill, disposal is shoddy, runs hard and works hard but should never be a starting 18 player. could go home to adelaide and play a role similar to torney - coming on and off the bench to do a pinch-hitting role every now and then. not up to it.

22. brent moloney - tries ever so hard, but how much longer can he keep playing for? runs up and down on the spot after half time - clearly his groin is knackered. off to the glue factory, i'm afraid.

23. james mcdonald - what a trier. but like bruce and trapper is another who seems to have lost muscle in the upper body - can't stick his tackles like last year. never stops trying though.

25. nathan brown - see bell, minus the adelaide connection.

27. jared rivers - gee he's good. reads the play, disposes of the ball cleanly, works hard off it to provide an option. we'd be in an awful spot of bother defensively if we lost him.

30. simon godfrey - didn't get within coo-ee of goodes until he injured himself, and even then the man with one arm still played better than him. having godders in the starting 18 sums up the position the mfc is in at the moment; rooted to the bottom of the ladder.

32. cam bruce - i just can't understand why his body shape has changed so much. it isn't as noticeable watching on the tv, but he looks like a twig. he really tries, but gets brushed off the ball, and his disposal is poor.

33. byron pickett - fat and ineffectual. provided the occasional bit of run and sometimes a nice tackle, but at other times looks completely disinterested. wouldn't be surprised if he pulled the plug on his afl career at the end of the year, unless he really is broke and needs the cash.

34. jeff white - effort, effort, effort, but too small to play ruck these days and not strong enough to go forward. still, without him i doubt we'd win a single take-away from around the bounce of the ball.

36. aaron davey - so pleasing to see him provide some genuine dash. worked hard, laid a couple of stellar tackles, and looked interested in getting the football again (unlike the first few rounds when he was more interesting in chatting to the umpires about the scragging he was receiving).

40. mark jamar - ineffectual, at best. barely won a tap, barely got the ball. can't kick. can't position his body in the marking contest.

41. nathan carroll - i thought he was okay on hall, who was the go-to guy in sydney's forward line. provided rebound, and did his job defensively too.

i think we're in huge trouble for the rest of the year.

we have far too many players who simply look like they can't be bothered, and others who try hard but are simply not up to it.

oh, and the coaching? the match-ups in the first quarter were abysmal. miller couldn't get near hall, and trying to play johnstone as a forward to lose the tag is a ridiculous move - it essentially concedes defeat in the middle before you've even started the game.

Ouch on Daniel Bell. I think you are being FAR TOO harsh on Bell. He is not the most skillful player, but his attack on the footy is great and he lays more tackles than the average backman. Dont forget the ball was wet and slippery making it harder to dispose of. Bell does take too long to dispose with pill, i will say that of him, but being a player you would like never to play again for the MFC is very harsh, and quite stupid.

Off to the glue factory for Beamer?? He is far from the aaron hamill stages, and is QUITE a bit younger. Rest is the key for him, which he will get if melbourne dont win in the next few weeks. Beamer was one of our best EVEN carrying groin issues, IMAGINE how much of a key he will be when he is 100%. Wait for beamer, he will be worth the wait.

rediculous observations of daniel bell.

clearly you did not watch the entire match, as he improved throughout, and clearly you have not watched this entire season, as he has been one of the few players to shine this year with his agression, power and skill

sure belly can make some disposal mistakes, but he goes alright

there was a passage where he got a contested possession around the back 50 and ran his full measure, and put it straight onto millers? chest about 40m out

Bell would be in the top 5 of our B+F at the moment. I just can't see how you've arrived at the conclusions you have.

O'Keefe had 18 disposals last night, most of which had little impact. He kicked only 1 goal.

Bell himself had 14 disposals, 6 tackles and is ranked higher than O'Keefe.

No idea how ANYONE can get stuck into Bell this season, or how anyone who actually watches games can accuse Bell of not being up to it.

Bell has been our most consistent defender this year. If it wasn't for him and Rivers, we'd be losing by over 25 goals every week.

Cannot agree with u on bell DA.

He is a good HB playa who's tough and will generally beat his man one on one.

If he did go back to adelaide like u suggested, in a year or 2, we'll b hearing u [censored] about how we could ever let go such a good playa.

CJ had a shocker but we should persist with him. Someone should define what role he should play and stick with it.

Brad Miller starting on Hall was a joke. Lacking tall forwards so we'll start him back.

I don't know how the myth of Hall being Miller's [censored] started from but clearly that's being busted by now. He had one great game against Hall 2004ish and has being lucky to split it 50/50 since then. It was Halls inaccurate kicking that made Miller look so good after his 2004 effort.

My observation is that the boys have dropped significant weight & muscle to try to obtain an advantage in speed. This unfortunately, may have lead to a severe drop in tackling, which we were considered one of the best last year, and an increase in injuries.

We are also pushed aside much easier now in a contest than last year.

daniel bell turns it over time and time again.

his attack on the ball is exemplary; his use of it is less than ordinary.

By the way, Daniel Bell averages more kicks, marks and tackles than Graham Johncock this year.

Yes, he is clearly a rubbish footballer.

daniel bell turns it over time and time again.

his attack on the ball is exemplary; his use of it is less than ordinary.

Sorry but that's a load of bull. His disposal in the past few seasons had been ordinary under pressure but this year it is, at the very least, at par standard. It's not first grade but it's definitely not poor. I can't help but think you're just regurgitating your previously conceived idea without watching him play objectively.

nope, i loved his attack on the ball last night, but his disposal and dithering had me tearing at my hair in frustration.

he's a good, honest trier. but that's all.

and it's not like he's the only one i ripped into; he's just a demonland favourite.

i thought my sylvia critique and byron blasting were far more negative.

i thought my sylvia critique and byron blasting were far more negative.

I didn't respond to the parts I agreed with

I can understand the reasoning behind Andrew's assessment's of Bell and Sylvia, but disagree on the final verdict.

I think though that Bell has been a more than solid citizen for us this year - his disposal is actually very good and the problem with his decision making is he is always trying to hit the best option - he just needs to take the first option - problem is a lot of the first options aren't that good because his team mates are standing flat footed. (actually it was Old55 that pointed that out to me). I'll continue to push the case for him to become an "on ball tagger" We don't have one and Bell's pace, aggression, discipline and skills make him the ideal candidate IMO.

Old also fancies Sylvia off the half back flank, and I'd have to agree that when moved back and allowed to attack the footy he looked a lot better - I just don't think playing forward or midfield is his go at the moment, he still has a lot of footy yet to learn, but his aggression and clean handling were very encouraging.

(Sorry if I've mis-quoted you in your abscence Old )

Questions need to be asked of the new fitness guy who made players lose weight to make them faster? Has this made them weaker and maybey also causing so many injuries? If this is the case he should be hung! I thought the club was trying to make our players stronger & tougher which has been a clear weakness of ours! Hasnt this fitness guy had a high injury list at every other club he has trained?

Questions need to be asked of the new fitness guy who made players lose weight to make them faster? Has this made them weaker and maybey also causing so many injuries? If this is the case he should be hung! I thought the club was trying to make our players stronger & tougher which has been a clear weakness of ours! Hasnt this fitness guy had a high injury list at every other club he has trained?

^{SPOT ON}

IMO This guy is the first that must be shown the door.

I was going to comment on the conditioning of players, glad someone has already done so.

It worried me greatly when daniher stated last year we needed run and carry, needed to get fitter to run games out etc etc. Theres a compromise between stamina and strength, we don't seem to have it at the moment. My guess is we'll fly in the 2nd half of the season, as we have tried to compensate for the recent season fade outs.

Well as soon as I heard we were changing styles (bloody tempo football and crap) I thought rather than being trendsetters, we were being followers. If our game plan was so bad, how did we end up looking so good through the middle of last year? Geez back the cattle we have, use strengths to a maximum and minimize weakness. We were a great kicking team, and poor handballing team. We tackled the best in the comp last year. Why try and change that? Brisbane win the flag with a 3peat, we try and get bigger and stronger. We do this, and now they want to change again. West Coast, one on one and back your talent. Seems simple to me. And talent is something we have.

I have an old theory I used to tell my younger brother, if Ward, Godfrey and Brown are in the same team, always bet against Melbourne. It has failed me rarely. I'd rather watch young blokes stuff up, than old blokes. That's why I am happy enough watching Bell improve, stuff up, and then improve again. And one thing he does have which not many others do any more.............is a strong body!

Where is the bloke that looked after S____ W_______'s conditioning in 2000?

Get him down the club.

yep, like the idea of bell as a tagger and sylvia off the hbf.

bell's biggest problem, other than dithering, is that he too often simply blazes away, and not merely because he's under pressure because he hasn't taken the first option. in packs, that's (almost) allowed. he's fast, he's hard, he can tackle. i think he could succeed as an on-ball tagger - it's definitely worth a try.

the only part of the game where sylvia looked ANY good last night was opposed to davis. he is worth a try on the hbf on a more permanent basis, essentially replacing bell i guess.

yep, like the idea of bell as a tagger and sylvia off the hbf.

bell's biggest problem, other than dithering, is that he too often simply blazes away, and not merely because he's under pressure because he hasn't taken the first option. in packs, that's (almost) allowed. he's fast, he's hard, he can tackle. i think he could succeed as an on-ball tagger - it's definitely worth a try.

the only part of the game where sylvia looked ANY good last night was opposed to davis. he is worth a try on the hbf on a more permanent basis, essentially replacing bell i guess.

I'm thinking that you don't watch Belly carefully enough.

He never blazes away, which is why he sometimes gets caught. He refuses to take the first option, if it is not the best option. He is actually intelligent in the way he disposes, because he'd often look up and try to pin-point a viable target. Sometimes, because of the amount of pressure he is under, he takes a bit too long to do so, and consequently gets caught.

He's getting better at taking the first option more often now, but at the same time he will take his opponent on if he thinks he can break the line and move the ball forward.

When looking at him as a defender, the first thing he should be judged on is his ability to shut down an opponent. Apart from Didak giving him a bit of a footy lesson last year, Bell has at the very least broken-even with all his opponents since. He demolished Milne and Farmer in the finals last year too.

I know I'm probably talking to a brick wall here, and a lot of Melbourne supporters are set in their views of him because he got off to an ordinary start (due mainly to injuries!). It is just such a shame that their stubbornness doesn't allow them to enjoy the coming of age of this truly good footballer.

I'm thinking that you don't watch Belly carefully enough...

I'm with you Jaded.

Bell has easily been one of Melbourne's best this year.

As has been mentioned many times before, Bell's biggest problem was his awareness. Too often he got caught out or chased down by the opposition.

However, that was just an experience thing that I believe he has greatly improved on. He has always had the ability, now he has the experience and confidence to really utilise it.

eh? demolished farmer in the finals? you've gotta be joking. farmer kicked 2.2, had a hand in about 4 more, and picked up a dozen or so possessions.

you're right in that he does work hard defensively. but that's not my gripe with him; my gripe is his disposal, and his incredibly poor decision-making.

bell did blaze away last night - he butchered the ball time and time again. that's what he's like when he's 'taking the first option' - he's no good at it.

if he stays on the hbf for melbourne in 5 years time he'll be thought of just as brown is now - a good, honest trier who gives his all but is just not good enough when it comes to disposing of the ball.

Bel has improved.

Bell costs us goals.

Bell's sideways movement inevitibly leads to problems.

Bell needs to go back to Sandy when a few others are ready for a go in the 1's.

Bell supporters need to do some open-minded video analysis.

Bell dithers when under pressure.

Bell lacks the defensive nouse of Rivers, Whelan, Carroll, Petterd and Frawley

Jaded your diatribes of players is very patriotic, but almost always misguided or inarticulate, saying Bell has higher possession average than Johncock is ridiculous - Johncock has played two games, one of which he was carried off on a stretcher, still his average is less than .5 lower than Belly's, thirdly, they are completley different players and finally Johncock is in a different class altogether, why the comparison!!! Pointless blabber!!! Bell was destroyed by Goddard earlier this year.

Bell is an honest, improving player who will probably be remembered as a good player when his career is over, but really he is nothing to sing and dance about, DemonAndrew is kind of right but a bit harsh.

Sylvia is ordinary at best at the moment, but injuries have crippled him severely, not anything near the player he was as a junior, just gotta hope he can get some continuity in his career.

Questions need to be asked of the new fitness guy who made players lose weight to make them faster? Has this made them weaker and maybey also causing so many injuries? If this is the case he should be hung! I thought the club was trying to make our players stronger & tougher which has been a clear weakness of ours! Hasnt this fitness guy had a high injury list at every other club he has trained?

I seem to remember this as a prediction when we learnt he was coming from Hawthorn?