Brad Miller had redemption in the 4th quarter yesterday kicking 3 goals, all too little too late. He was wrongly treated for a push in the back in the square which should have ended him with 4 goals, but when the ball was kicked to him he dropped the marks, or lazily offloaded it into inteception. He could have kicked a swag of goals if he posied himself more.

Lynden Dunn was sensational in his first game back. The future is with him.

Nathan Carroll was horrible. Pavlich kicked 6, almost 8 had he not hit the post twice.

He was always languishing behind, too slow and extremely frustrating to watch..... Do we know why Ferguson was dropped??

Neale Daniher need not worry about the supporters, I think it's the players he should be worried about...

The bottom line here is that if Miller and Carroll held and stood tall in attack and defence, we would have been alot more competitive. Ashame really.

Both worked their arses off and were simply outclassed.

There is no shame in that IMO.

terrible post imo.

miller worked hard all day. a lot of the delivery to him was a hospital kick over his head or a half volley at his feet. if he had the delivery that pavlich had it would be a different story. he ran hard and presented all day, and when he was close to goal in the last, he kicked a few. another good game from miller, thats 2 in a row now...he will improve slowly, he's not going to wake up tomorrow and be wayne carey.

i thought nathan carrol worked admirably today also. pavlich lead well into space and had good delivery making it very hard to defend. there is only so much a full back can do, and nathan carroll made his fair share of spoils...

I agree with Ox and tequila. Miller was teriffic IMO, worked hard all day and didnt get the rewards until the last qtr. Was outclassed and outnumbered all day.

Carrol was also thrown to the wolves. Playing on Pavlich is tough any time let alone when your best 3rd man up defender in Jared Rivers is out and our best small defender is off after the first qtr.

Has Miller lost a lot of weight? He looks very skinny & seems to be pushed aside too often.

Has Miller lost a lot of weight? He looks very skinny & seems to be pushed aside too often.

Miller does look alot thinner compared to his stronger physique a couple of years ago. He's still capable of taking some good

marks and kicking some good goals from long range. I just don't see the passion this year.

Rivers and Ferguson must be brought straight in next week, I don't think Carroll is good enough for Hall or O'Loughlin.

Will Holland be brought back in? I'd like to see Ricky Pettard make his debut...

Good to see Jamar start holding his marks...

PJ was disappointing though IMO.

Miller does look alot thinner compared to his stronger physique a couple of years ago. He's still capable of taking some good

marks and kicking some good goals from long range. I just don't see the passion this year.

You don't see the passion??

He's been one of our most consistent players this season along with Bell.

Just because he's decided to stop belting people stupidly, doesn't mean he's lost the passion.

The weight loss is probably due to his OP trouble last year. Losing weight means that the load on the legs is lighter.

I am not a Miller fan but I give him credit for working his ass off trying. Miller will never be the mercedes benz and will always make the Miller errors but I acknowledge he still does some capable things.

Carroll was never a match for Pav. Few in MFC are. But we get clipped in the midfield blokes like Pavlich will hurt you every time. I would persevere with Carroll.

But FCS, Ferg has to come in for Hall and O'Loughlin????? He matches up on well on neither. Last year the Swans played a 4th gamer Grundy out bodied him twice for a contested mark. I have seen enough of Ferg.

Miller does look alot thinner compared to his stronger physique a couple of years ago. He's still capable of taking some good

marks and kicking some good goals from long range. I just don't see the passion this year.

Rivers and Ferguson must be brought straight in next week, I don't think Carroll is good enough for Hall or O'Loughlin.

Will Holland be brought back in? I'd like to see Ricky Pettard make his debut...

Good to see Jamar start holding his marks...

PJ was disappointing though IMO.

Well whatever you might say about PJ< I would rather he fail as a forward, after spending some genuine time in the square where he belongs, rather than galloping around as a makeshift defence KPP - which he aint.

I almost swallowed my tongue in the match against Geelong where White - for all of his many virtues - was sent to the FF. Since when has this ever been a productive strategy?

I am very proud of the boys for doing what they can under the circumstances, but we can forget about this year in terms of it being the drought-breaker

Biffinator.

I thought that Miller busted a gut yesterday - if he had the silver service that the Pav had, then he would kick goals!!

He was unfortunate for a couple of in the back decisions yesterday - they both went against him but he continued to work his butt off!! I think thought that without Neita and Robbo, that he is going to become a better forward for it and possibly prove many people wrong by demanding the ball, etc... I am willing to give him time, that we do have plenty of this season!!

Carroll was beaten hands down by a gun but as mentioned he had silver service - the ball was kicked to him by drop punts, at pace and from centre clearances - this allowed carroll to be one on one and this is hard.... pav is taller and once he gets those hands in front of the eyes, well... this is where rivers is crucial.. he reads the play well and the number of times he is the third man up and plays unselfishly, well... he is in our top 5 important players at the club!!

I thought that Miller busted a gut yesterday - if he had the silver service that the Pav had, then he would kick goals!!

I agree with your general sentiments but Miller and Pavlich are chalk and cheese.

Anyone would look ordinary like Carroll did when the pressure from our midfield was non existant like it has been all year. I don't know what has happened to our tackling but it's gone from one of of strengths to one of our weaknesses. Like Godfrey you can never question Miller's commitment it's his talent that's the problem. P.J has 18 weeks to try and become a key backman if he doesn't show any improvement get rid of him because he is no ruckman or forward.

Anyone would look ordinary like Carroll did when the pressure from our midfield was non existant like it has been all year. I don't know what has happened to our tackling but it's gone from one of of strengths to one of our weaknesses. Like Godfrey you can never question Miller's commitment it's his talent that's the problem. P.J has 18 weeks to try and become a key backman if he doesn't show any improvement get rid of him because he is no ruckman or forward.

Lest they forget Mr C.

Brad Miller had redemption in the 4th quarter yesterday kicking 3 goals, all too little too late. He was wrongly treated for a push in the back in the square which should have ended him with 4 goals, but when the ball was kicked to him he dropped the marks, or lazily offloaded it into inteception. He could have kicked a swag of goals if he posied himself more.

Lynden Dunn was sensational in his first game back. The future is with him.

Nathan Carroll was horrible. Pavlich kicked 6, almost 8 had he not hit the post twice.

He was always languishing behind, too slow and extremely frustrating to watch..... Do we know why Ferguson was dropped??

Neale Daniher need not worry about the supporters, I think it's the players he should be worried about...

The bottom line here is that if Miller and Carroll held and stood tall in attack and defence, we would have been alot more competitive. Ashame really.

it all starts in the midfield

I thought Miller tried hard. Does not have the natural ability of Dunn but gives his all. Miller plays his bestwhen he is running and preesenting all day. Our mids just did not get enoigh quality possessions.

Carroll, well Pav is one of the competition guns. Freo mids got plenty so i cannot blame Carroll.

Here is what I don't get...

Last year people were accusing Miller of not kicking enough goals, and over-using handballs and getting suspended for ridiculous brain fades.

This year, he has done more than his fair share of goal and field kicking, and is yet to lay a finger on an opponent illegally.

Given that he is now double, even triple- teamed with the absence of Neita and Robbo, I think he has been more than admirable. He works hard all game long, but he also produces results and has an impact on the side.

He was unlucky not to finish the game with 5 goals. That's a damn good outcome for an apperantly below-average forward. And the fact that at no point did Daniher attempt to throw him into the backline, goes to show that Miller is vitally important to our forward structure at this point in time.

As for Carroll, I don't know many defenders who can shut down Pavlich, especially given the lack of midfield pressure.

it all starts in the midfield

I agree, it does start in the midfield, but the difference was Fremantle made 4 kicks and scored a goal,

Melbourne dished out 10 handballs and got nowhere. It's frustrating to see one team on the field play direct football while

the other plays a posession brand. Neil Balme introduced this posession football disease in the 90's and we got nowhere.

Daniher just needs to get his players to go one on one and play direct football down the guts. Simple as that.

Both worked their arses off and were simply outclassed.

There is no shame in that IMO.

agreed , I was there and they both put in 100%. Miller just needs to hold more marks and Pavlich was too good, but Carroll got no support

If they both got the midfield support they needed, they would be fine. Last year when our midfield was applying good pressure, laying lots of tackles, and pushing back into defense properly, Carroll was good. The fact is at the moment he is playing one on one against talented players, being bombarded by masses of ball coming in, and doesnt have Rivers or any decent defenders helping him out. When the midfield gets up and running, and Rivers et all return, he will be fine.

As for Miller, he is having a good season. Already kicked more goals than he did for the entire year last year, and is trying his ass off week in week out for decent results. If he got better supply from the midfield, he would be better off also. Both these players are fine, and will be fine. It's the midfield that's the problem, and the current injuries arent helping!

Excellent summation LT......

As YM said earlier in this thread - it all starts in the midfield.

Carroll had one hell of a job yesterday on Pavlich, a job that gets failed more often than not by plenty of the more naturally gifted and well credentialed backmen in the competition. He was also unable to get too much assistance from those around him with the ball flying in with such ease, and the fact that the other Fremantle forwards are of high quality and also required very close attention. But he worked extremely hard in very difficult circumstances.

As for Miller, his improvement from what we saw last year to the opening month of this season has been plainly obvious. He always works his ass off and will always give the best he can. For a lot here that will never be good enough, but he has kicked more goals, his field kicking is getting better and he is providing a great contest and presents all day long, giving us at least one route to goal. Marking is an issue, but it is a skill that can be improved.

But the same applies, with the little mid-field pressure we are applying, the ball is not getting to the forwards or it is being delivered poorly, and the ball is being rained down on the defence, all of which has been happening in the opening rounds, then you can only do the best you can in the situation that presents itself, and both these two will always give their best, even in obviously awful circumstances.

And that should be applauded not criticised.

You don't see the passion??

He's been one of our most consistent players this season along with Bell.

Just because he's decided to stop belting people stupidly, doesn't mean he's lost the passion.

The weight loss is probably due to his OP trouble last year. Losing weight means that the load on the legs is lighter.

agree with u totally....

apart from bell not most consistent but trying his hardest which is good.

From the games I've seen this year, Carroll has gone backwards.

Needs to decide whether he is Chopper or Hansel.

agree with u totally....

apart from bell not most consistent but trying his hardest which is good.

Whats ur problem with bell?? Hes a good player! It is Millers year!

I am not a Miller fan but I give him credit for working his ass off trying. Miller will never be the mercedes benz and will always make the Miller errors but I acknowledge he still does some capable things.

Damned by faint praise.

Tries hard I agree, but no evidence of second efforts , probaly due to lack of awareness.

Doesn't see the obvious shepherd for players running past, and still can't kick for a CHF.

OK. - I was spoiled watching the OX, and Lyon playing across CHF. But until we find a solution to this position, wer'e going nowhere.

(PS I'm not saying Miller is out, i just think he needs a new role - if he can)

Damned by faint praise.

Tries hard I agree, but no evidence of second efforts , probaly due to lack of awareness.

Doesn't see the obvious shepherd for players running past, and still can't kick for a CHF.

OK. - I was spoiled watching the OX, and Lyon playing across CHF. But until we find a solution to this position, wer'e going nowhere.

(PS I'm not saying Miller is out, i just think he needs a new role - if he can)

Its not meant to be.

I actually trying to rationally assess Miller capabilities and contributions.

We actually on the same plane. I have said repeatedly that Miller despite his gallant efforts just does not cut it as a CHF and I think he has more hope being a nullifying defender.

But in the short term given our injuries he has to stay where he is.