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Posted (edited)

Round 11, 2022 MCG - Demons vs Dockers

Gee i hate losing!  Oh well.  Couldn't make it tonight nor have i watched the match due to family commitments.  Might be a good thing!

For mine the form glitch appeared to have started last week where our team score was off the 2021 average score by a significant 10% with a 60.45.  This week was our second lowest team score and it was a massive 17.5% off our 2021 H&A season average.  The lowest team score was against Port in Rnd 5 with a 54.53

Also our lowest disposal efficiency for the season at only 65% (Docker's pressure?) which is well below AFL average (approx 73%).

If Tracc was truly sick then it might explain his lowest score this season by a country mile (& possibly ever since i've been keeping records or close to it).  Maybe he wasn't the only one effected tonight?

Then there's BBB, Weid & Melk, who disappointedly would appear to have barely fired a shot between them?

Viney must have played a reasonable game given he topped the tables this evening??

Even without seeing tonight's game i'm sticking with my statement a while back that we appear to be short a Key Forward who can take contested marks and kick nicely from 40 to 50 out and sometimes slightly beyond.  In the short term as a stop gap could this be Mitch Brown?

With Smith out for quite a while we also lack an extra spare tall down back to cover off the likes of May, Lever & Petty if one goes down injured etc.  Or do we just plug Maxy/Plugga Mac in there?

I would also argue we are in need of a quick runner off HB who can break a line or two quite consistently and hit up a few targets through the middle accurately or go long to the 50 or so if that's an option.  If wishes were horse!

Player Score Rank
Jack Viney 5.300 1
J Jordon 4.300 2
A Brayshaw 4.025 3
C Oliver 3.825 4
Max Gawn # 3.425 5
K Pickett 3.050 6
T Bedford 2.950 7
Jake Bowey 2.725 8
L Jackson # 2.700 9
Jake Lever 2.575 10
L Dunstan > 46% TOG 2.550 11
H Petty 2.325 12
T Sparrow 2.275 13
Trent Rivers 2.250 14
Alex N-Bullen 2.175 15
C Spargo 1.825 16
Jayden Hunt 1.800 17
B Fritsch 1.700 18
C Petracca 1.275 19
S Weideman 0.875 20
J Melksham 0.850 21
Ben Brown 0.650 22
S May < 15% TOG 0.400 23
Team Score (top 22) 55.43  
Top 6 23.93  
Bottom 6 7.15  

# Hit outs to advantage not captured

< Subbed out

> Subbed in

TOG = Time on Ground

Edited by Demon Dynasty
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I guess those stats reinforce our own opinions that we were poor, a whacking -17.5% below our 2021 average.!! I have to ask the question have our training loads been increased?

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We were absolutely smashed from half time, we are lucky to be only down 17.5%, although if we did it by halves i wonder if it would be all square in the first half and down 35% in the second??

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, DeeZone said:

I guess those stats reinforce our own opinions that we were poor, a whacking -17.5% below our 2021 average.!! I have to ask the question have our training loads been increased?

Given that we were tracking above our 2021 H&A team average prior to the Norf game DZ i'm not sure if and/or why the FD would want to try and increase workloads at this time of year.  But then again i know little to nothing about these things.  I'm not too concerned as to me the last two weeks have seen us lose a few key players plus we've been on top for quite a while.  Then the loss of Maysie  Maybe took the foot of the pedal a little barr a few.  Possibly one or more a little off with illness?

What concerned me about the Freo match was (and i can only go on what i've seen in highlights / radio broadcast) is that we appeared to have gotten smashed in center clearances and even loose contested ground ball.  Freo also appeared to control the game for far too long with their slow play chip mark / switch game.  Did they take advantage of a far too slack / loose zone after half time?

Then there's our disconnect / poor conversion (vs inside 50) ratio up forward.  Are we bringing enough heat inside our own 50 defensively?

At the end of the day we are certainly in good hands down there and i'm sure they'll drill down in the review this week searching for some whys re Saturday's poor second half.  I would like to think it's just a personnel issue and all will return to normal once some key players return.  And we should also give credit to Freo for bringing the heat.  However, i think we have been a little too reliant on the stonewall defence this season and the forward side needs some serious fixing.  Not that he's the savior but would love to see Mitch Brown in this week if Plugga Mac doesn't get up.

Edited by Demon Dynasty
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Weighted Average Scores up to & including Rnd 11, 2022 vs H&A Season 2021

Player 2022 Score 2022 Rank 2021 Score % Change vs 2021 2021 Rank Change in Rank vs 2021
C Oliver 5.234 1 5.258 -0.46 1 0
C Petracca 4.243 2 4.041 5.00 2 0
Jack Viney 4.219 3 3.171 33.05 8 5
Steven May 4.083 4 3.926 4.00 3 -1
A Brayshaw 3.675 5 2.836 29.58 12 7
Ed Langdon 3.665 6 3.092 18.53 9 3
J Harmes 3.431 7 3.520 -2.53 6 -1
L Jackson # 3.243 8 2.355 37.71 21 13
Max Gawn # 3.223 9 3.439 -6.28 7 -2
Jake Bowey 3.209 10 2.881 11.38 11 1
T Sparrow 3.068 11 2.023 51.66 28 17
L Dunstan 3.025 12 - - - -
Alex N-Bullen 2.940 13 2.388 23.12 19 6
J Jordon 2.864 14 2.908 -1.51 10 -4
Jake Lever 2.856 15 3.661 -21.99 5 -10
T Bedford 2.465 16 - - - -
T Rivers 2.438 17 2.658 -8.28 13 -4
H Petty 2.105 18 2.086 0.91 26 8
C Spargo 2.052 19 2.068 -0.77 27 8
J Hunt 2.034 20 2.597 -21.68 14 -6
K Pickett 2.018 21 2.378 -15.14 20 -1
Joel Smith 1.957 22 1.375 42.33 32 10
A Tomlinson 1.956 23 2.475 -20.97 16 -7
T McDonald # 1.939 24 2.516 -22.93 15 -9
Bayley Fritsch 1.927 25 2.155 -10.58 25 0
Ben Brown 1.641 26 1.855 -11.54 30 4
S Weideman 1.571 27 1.055 48.91 27 0
J Melksham 1.433 28 1.853 -22.67 31 3
Average Team Score - Top 22 68.05   67.23 1.22    

# Hit outs to advantage not captured

Stats courtesy of footywire.com

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3 hours ago, buck_nekkid said:

We were absolutely smashed from half time, we are lucky to be only down 17.5%, although if we did it by halves i wonder if it would be all square in the first half and down 35% in the second??

Certainly a game of two halves Buck

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Posted (edited)

If anyone managed to catch "The Monday Means Test" on Whately / SEN this morning ....

According to David King, in 2021 we were ranked No.1 without the ball (by a fair margin vs the rest of the comp).  I assume this means pressure acts, maybe tackling? and/or ability to get the ball back (forcing turnovers).

Also No.1 at retention of the ball inside our own 50 (record margins vs rest of comp)

The last 5 weeks he said we were ranked 11th without the ball.  Freo 1st

Not sure about the retention inside 50

Will have to knuckle down in the 2nd half of the season if we are to get our 2021 mojo back in this area it seems.

Edited by Demon Dynasty
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Posted (edited)

Round 11, 2022 MCG - Demons vs Swans

Well for third week running we are a mile off our 2021 season average team score, down 15.5%!

A mild improvement on last week's result (-17.5%) but still a bridge too far to get the job done against the better sides.

Max comfortably BOG for us.  Decent game from Clarry but over using the handballs (20 vs 9 kicks)?  Gus played a super game i thought and the score indicates same.

Tracc's result, a big improvement on last week but also well off his usual standard.

A good come back from Salem.  Harmes well off his best.  Hopefully both better for the run next week.

Benny Brown get's the poo award this week (statistically) and it would appear to reflect what we witnessed last night.  Hunt & Jackson not far behind!  Sparrow a worry as well.

The three turnover kings... Viney (8) and Tracc/Jackson on 6 each.

Our genuine forwards not bringing the heat inside 50?  Only two tackles between the lot.....

Kozzy 1, Spargo 1.... the rest... Zip!  Clarry the most for anyone with two!  Even Lingers & Lever got one more than the other forwards!

Player Score Rank
Max Gawn 5.675 1
C Oliver 5.425 2
A Brayshaw 4.725 3
J Jordon 4.125 4
Ed Langdon 3.775 5
C Salem 3.725 6
Jack Viney 3.350 7
Alex N-Bullen 3.325 8
C Petracca 2.575 9
Jake Bowey 2.300 10
Jake Lever 2.200 11
J Harmes 1.950 12
K Pickett 1.925 13
A Tomlinson 1.800 14
B Fritsch 1.700 15
H Petty 1.625 16
M Brown* 1.575 17
C Spargo 1.500 18
T Sparrow 1.375 19
L Jackson 0.825 20
Jayden Hunt 0.750 21
Ben Brown 0.550 22
Team Score 56.78  
Top 6 27.45  
Bottom 6 6.58  

# Hit outs to advantage not captured

* Only played one match...not an average score

Stats courtesy of footywire.com

Edited by Demon Dynasty
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Posted (edited)

Weighted Average Scores up to & including Rnd 12, 2022 vs H&A Season 2021

Just over the half way mark and all forwards, bar Spargo and to a lessor degree Fritsch (not far away), remain in Struggle Street compared to their 2021 performance (statistically).

Lever unable to close the gap on his 2021 form since his return and has now begun to fall further behind.  Tracc losing some of his early gains in the last two weeks.

Viney, Gus and Lingers the stand out improvers so far.  Viney just leaping over Tracc to take the No.2 spot.

Sparrow & Jackson having a good season overall, albeit they've dropped a way a little in the last three weeks.  ANB holding his overall substantial gain on 2021.

Max back to 2021 form after last night's stand out performance.  23 contested possessions!  Must be some sort of record for a ruckman.  10 score involvements.  The only downside....zero tackles.  Adding a nominal amount to allow for hit outs to advantage (say 0.75) i would say Max should be sitting in the No.2 ranked position at this moment just ahead of Viney & Tracc on a score of approx 4.17

Taking no notice of Mitch or Salem's results just yet having played only one game a piece.

Hunt and Tomo a fair way off their 2021 levels so far.

Player 2022 Score 2022 Rank 2021 Score % Change vs 2021 2021 Rank Change in Rank vs 2021
C Oliver 5.250 1 5.258 -0.15 1 0
Jack Viney 4.133 2 3.171 30.34 8 6
C Petracca 4.104 3 4.041 1.56 2 -1
Steven May 4.083 4 3.926 4.00 3 -1
A Brayshaw 3.763 5 2.836 32.69 12 7
C Salem* 3.725 6 3.879 -3.97 4 -2
Ed Langdon 3.676 7 3.092 18.89 9 2
Max Gawn # 3.427 8 3.439 -0.35 7 -1
J Harmes 3.279 9 3.520 -6.85 6 -3
Jake Bowey 3.133 10 2.881 8.75 11 1
L Dunstan 3.025 11 - - - -
L Jackson # 3.023 12 2.355 28.37 21 9
Alex N-Bullen 2.975 13 2.388 24.58 19 6
J Jordon 2.969 14 2.908 2.10 10 -4
T Sparrow 2.914 15 2.023 44.04 28 13
Jake Lever 2.790 16 3.661 -23.79 5 -11
T Bedford 2.465 17 - - - -
T Rivers 2.438 18 2.658 -8.28 13 -5
H Petty 2.025 19 2.086 -2.92 26 7
K Pickett 2.009 20 2.378 -15.52 20 0
C Spargo 2.006 21 2.068 -3.00 27 6
Joel Smith 1.957 22 1.375 42.33 32 10
T McDonald # 1.939 23 2.516 -22.93 15 -8
J Hunt 1.927 24 2.597 -25.80 14 -10
A Tomlinson 1.925 25 2.475 -22.22 16 -9
Bayley Fritsch 1.908 26 2.155 -11.46 25 -1
Mitch Brown* 1.575 27 2.475 -36.36 16 -11
S Weideman 1.571 28 1.055 48.91 27 -1
Ben Brown # 1.519 29 1.855 -18.11 30 1
J Melksham 1.433 30 1.853 -22.67 31 1
Average Team Score - Top 22 69.17   67.23 2.88    

# Hit outs to advantage not captured

* Only played one match...not an average score

Stats courtesy of footywire.com

Edited by Demon Dynasty
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This is just the best analysis of the game . Well Done.

I t makes some of the "value judgement" comments ,well............ value judgements !!!!!

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  • 2 weeks later...
Posted (edited)

Round 13, 2022 MCG - Magpies vs Demons

Well there's probably only two things we can relate to right at this moment that encapsulate the word 'Consistency'.  One of them is a group of players... Clarry / Max (both legends... Max's injury can't be helped), Gus, Viney & Jordan.  I would also throw May in here...IF he had played!  I won't mention the other  as it starts with L and not very enjoyable. 

Aside from the above another positive from these numbers is the top 6 total score which is the highest for the season.

Clarry had a very good game but if he could just turn some of those handballs into meters gained with a quick kick forward...and get on the hunt a little more (pressure & tackles a bit low?  Not alone here)

However, in a losing team to post that and win the Danner's Cup you have to have a pretty crazy game.  If only a few others down the line could step up a little more and go with him...

35 effectives @ 81.4%, one percenter, 6 clearances, 2 rebounds, 8 inside 50s, 3 tackles, 6 score involvements, 5 intercepts, 614 meters gaines, 1 goal and 6 turnovers (not that bad given the amount of ball he had).

Gus i thought was almost BOG or had as big an impact as Clarry on the day (defensively).  13 intercepts on the day, the most for either side just ahead of Maynard on 12.  The Pies had plenty more intercepts than us overall however as it seems our bombing days just keep on keeping on after about 5 years!

A big number for Salem in only his second game back but is he playing too short/safe with 25 effectives @ 100% suggesting he might have been handing the pressure off to others with too many short lateral passes vs the occasional medium one inside etc?

Top 5 Meters gained (MFC);  Jordan (No.1 on the day) with a massive 829, Clarry 614, Hibb 463 (thought he had a decent return bar the dump around the body turnover kick on the wing late in the last), Viney 425 & Gus 400.

After Benny Brown the player scores below that provide a bit of a form 'signal'.  Showing why we aren't winning many games of footy of late.  The form line after Benny (and he was borderline but a slight improvement on a horror four weeks...what was that around the body brain snap in the last though!!) is just too far off AFL level to win against anyone other than say the bottom three or four.

Very few teams can 'carry' roughly eight players that are this badly out of form (not including Turner here for obvious reasons).  If only we had that sort of depth!

Personally, unless we fix how we play, from the middle of the ground forward, we are going to continue to struggle against other in form sides from here.  Can we fix it?  Who knows!

Player Score Rank
C Oliver 6.800 1
C Salem 5.300 2
C Petracca 4.925 3
A Brayshaw 4.850 4
J Jordon 4.400 5
J Viney 4.375 6
T Sparrow 3.875 7
L Jackson # 3.400 8
M Hibberd 2.975 9
C Spargo 2.875 10
H Petty 2.800 11
Max Gawn # 2.675 12
Ben Brown 2.375 13
Jake Bowey 2.125 14
Ed Langdon 1.825 15
J Harmes 1.775 16
Jake Lever 1.700 17
Alex N-Bullen 1.675 18
M Brown 1.450 19
B Fritsch 1.325 20
D Turner > 49% TOG 1.200 21
K Pickett 0.450 22
K Chandler < 22% TOG 0.250 23
Team Score 65.15  
Top 6 30.65  
Bottom 6 7.80  

# Hit outs to advantage not captured

> Subbed Out

< Subbed In

Stats courtesy of footywire.com

Edited by Demon Dynasty
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Weighted Average Scores up to & including Rnd 13, 2022 vs H&A Season 2021

Player 2022 Score 2022 Rank 2021 Score % Change vs 2021 2021 Rank Change in Rank vs 2021
C Oliver 5.369 1 5.258 2.11 1 0
C Salem 4.513 2 3.879 16.34 4 2
C Petracca 4.167 3 4.041 3.12 2 -1
Jack Viney 4.155 4 3.171 31.03 8 4
Steven May 4.083 5 3.926 4.00 3 -2
A Brayshaw 3.846 6 2.836 35.61 12 6
Ed Langdon 3.511 7 3.092 13.55 9 2
Max Gawn # 3.369 8 3.439 -2.04 7 -1
J Harmes 3.140 9 3.520 -10.80 6 -3
J Jordon 3.079 10 2.908 5.88 10 0
Jake Bowey 3.056 11 2.881 6.07 11 0
L Jackson # 3.054 12 2.355 29.68 21 9
L Dunstan 3.025 13 - - - -
T Sparrow 2.994 14 2.023 48.00 28 14
Alex N-Bullen 2.867 15 2.388 20.06 19 4
Jake Lever 2.691 16 3.661 -26.50 5 -11
T Bedford 2.465 17 - - - -
T Rivers 2.438 18 2.658 -8.28 13 -5
H Petty 2.136 19 2.086 2.40 26 7
C Spargo 2.073 20 2.068 0.24 27 7
Joel Smith 1.957 21 1.375 42.33 32 11
T McDonald # 1.939 22 2.516 -22.93 15 -7
J Hunt 1.927 23 2.597 -25.80 14 -9
A Tomlinson 1.925 24 2.475 -22.22 16 -8
K Pickett 1.879 25 2.378 -20.98 20 -5
Bayley Fritsch 1.863 26 2.155 -13.55 25 -1
Ben Brown# 1.605 27 1.855 -13.48 30 3
S Weideman 1.571 28 1.055 48.91 27 -1
Mitch Brown 1.513 29 2.475 -38.87 16 -13
J Melksham 1.433 30 1.853 -22.67 31 1
Daniel Turner >* 1.200 31 - - - -
Average Team Score -Top 22 69.93   67.23 4.01    

# Hit outs to advantage not captured

* Only played one match...not an average score

> Subbed Out

Stats courtesy of footywire.com

 

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As you have pointed out DD half our top 22 have dropped off in 2022 and you can’t win games with half the side MIA coupled with an awful run of injuries mainly down back. Last year our bottom 8-10 players were playing better than the opposition bottom 8-10 which was getting us over the line. So we need an incremental improvement from those bottom 8-10 players and we need it now. Dunstan’s disposal isn’t great but he is playing better than 8 of our best 22 so should be in the side. Those stats are very damning.!!!

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, DeeZone said:

As you have pointed out DD half our top 22 have dropped off in 2022 and you can’t win games with half the side MIA coupled with an awful run of injuries mainly down back. Last year our bottom 8-10 players were playing better than the opposition bottom 8-10 which was getting us over the line. So we need an incremental improvement from those bottom 8-10 players and we need it now. Dunstan’s disposal isn’t great but he is playing better than 8 of our best 22 so should be in the side. Those stats are very damning.!!!

In the last five rounds we've obviously ebbed away DZ.  In terms of the season as a whole however, the bulk of the list has actually improved statistically vs 2021 to this point.  Our problem is that some of those that haven't are obviously critical to our continuing success/winning form.  And of course we've now had some injuries to key players in the last four weeks or so.

Not really adding anything that no one knows already of course.  However if i take my objective qualitative hat off for a moment and look at the numbers alone (Danger Danger Will Robinson!) the players that we need to get back to something resembling 2021 form aren't that many or deep barring injury of course.

So lets look at those injured and the others still on the park who are statistically a fair way off their 2021 form...

🌤️ Harmes (-11% on 2021 score) - Struggling since his return from the hammy but came back against two top 8 clubs in red hot form.  I'll back him in here as he's done this before, as recently as early last season when i don't think he played till about round 5 or 6 from memory yet went on to make a very sold contribution.  Off by about 11% on his 2021 level (statistically) so far.  He can make that up if he puts his head down and no further setbacks.  Let's see after the buy but i reckon he'll ratchet things up slowly and get somewhere near back to his best within two to three weeks.

🌦️ Lever (-26%) As per Harmes but has had a stack more time to regain match fitness and form.  Unfortunately that hasn't been the case and in his last three matches since May went down he's posted some horrible results on these tables.  Is it a case of no May no decent form from Lever?  Or is he just so far back after his return from injury that it's going to be one of those seasons for Jake?  26% off would appear to be a bridge too far at this point but stranger things have happened.  Might be worth considering Tomo for a short stint see how he goes, put Lever back for a spell and an attempted reset with Casey along with a small block of ramped up training to try and lift his fitness / strength levels?  Comes back fitter and better for it?

🌤️ Rivers (-8%).  No issues for mine.  8% off of last season is an easy number for a youngster with his talent to get back to IMV.  I like the reset at Casey approach here allowing him more time / space to find some form and belief / confidence as well as playing the way Goody & Co might feel he hasn't been and fixing a few issues in the way he's going about things.  His game against the Swans with Casey was solid and a sign that the reset is on track.  Can't be sure how he went against the Pies as i only saw the highlights.

⛅ Tommy Mac (-23%).  .  IMV and no doubt many others on here etc, a key / critical figure up forward and part of our preferred structure if we're to make something of the rest of this season.  Not sure why he's 23% down on 2021.  It's a big number and probably worth a deeper look.  The one thing i have liked about some of his games is his contested marking ability up forward and higher up the ground and his accurate goal kicking.  Hopefully he makes it back but even if he does will he make it back to AFL match fitness with decent form in time?

⛅ Kozzy (-21%)  Again another big gap between this season and last.  Some weeks he's on fire for a half of footy.  Other weeks we might be lucky to see one quarter or almost zero return.  If only Kozzy could find some consistency this season.  One thing i have noticed in the games he's performed well or quite well in....i see his contested possession numbers are up a fair bit from weeks where he is having an off game.  This one's a real mystery to me.  Maybe carrying something and every other week he's a bit too sore to get going?  Maybe drank a little too much Premiership happy juice in the off season?

⛅ Fritta (-14%)  Not sure Fritta's been bringing his A game enough of the time this season.  It's just the little things, like the odd missed goal that he'd usually slot.  The missing quarters in game.  Trying to do it all himself near the goals instead of looking for an open player by hand or foot etc and instead getting pinged.  14% isn't alot but we're waiting waiting waiting for Fritta to get going consistently.  It's time to bring the A game son, especially now Macca and Maxy are both out.

🌦️ Benny B (13%)  Oh Benny Benny Benny.  Whatever happened to him this season.  Given his experience, along with Lever, he's probably the biggest disappointment so far this season for mine.  Dropping too many marks, getting pushed off / taken out of many contests quite easily.  Not leading up enough at the ball carrier and/or doubling back for the out the back mark/goal as he did on occasions last season.  Instead sitting back far too often waiting for the perfectly weighted long kick near the goals.  I dunno.  Another player still basking in the Premiership glory a little too long maybe?   Needs a rocket and some grunt!  Would want to be a damn good second half of the season from old Benny!

So rounding it up there aren't many off their 2021 form...but far too many of them are inside that forward 50 arc for my liking.  And the other real concern not inside the arc...Lever.

Good luck trying to fix the issues inside 50 and the delivery / smarts coming inside because so far it's been an absolute crappola fest!

Edited by Demon Dynasty
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  • 2 weeks later...
Posted (edited)

Round 14, 2022 MCG - Demons vs Lions

Our second best team score for the season just behind Rd 5 win over the Giants (74.00)

9% up on our 2021 season average against the No.2 team in the comp....i'll take that any day tyvm!  The second best top 6 and bottom 6 scores for the season.  The best top 6 was last week against the Pies by a smidgen (30.48) and the bottom 6 was again vs the Giants (12.00)

Guess who at the top ...again!  Another super game from the champ but thought Viney was more influential overall.  Great game from the stand in Captain.

And where did that game from Lever come from?  60% up on his 2021 average and a massive 117% up on this year's!  Like he'd been slapped across the face with a wet fish during the buy.  15 intercepts, the most from both teams on the night (Gus next in line with 12).

Thought Tracc had a much improved night, aside from a few too may turnovers, he added  9 inside 50s, 9 Score involvements, 8 clearances along with a hefty 797 meters gained (Rich at the top with 875).

Bow wow Dogga!  Statistically his best game since joining the MFC.  Let's take a look at what the big fella produced last night...

15 effectives @ 71.4%, 1 contested mark, 4 one percenters, 3 clearances, 1 Rebound, 6 inside 50s, 9 tackles, 10 score involvements (just behind Clarry with 11), 4 intercepts, only 1 turnover, 377 Meters gained, 18 hit outs and a goal.

Special mention to Bedford who didn't just hit the scoreboard with those two gems racking up 7 score involvements as well.

Also ANB for turning up the heat inside the arc with 5 tackles inside 50, the most for both teams.  Great to have May back as well.  What a difference he makes.  Spargo's work coming inside very nice, 8 score involvements and first goal in a while which was great to see.

Thought Weideman played his role nicely on the night although still appears to get pushed off the ball in ruck/marking contests a tad easy at times (i get this is going to happen against a giant like Oscar in the ruck but would be nice to see a tad more force/fierce commitment from Weid...and stay goal side of such a big fella nearer the goals maybe?).

Top 5 MFC Meters Gained:  Tracc 797, May 599, Viney 579, Jordan 478 & Gus 464

Player Score Rank
C Oliver  6.450 1
Jake Lever  5.850 2
L Jackson # 5.450 3
Jack Viney  5.150 4
A Brayshaw  3.800 5
C Petracca  3.775 6
J Jordon  3.750 7
T Sparrow  3.700 8
Steven May  3.625 9
Alex N-Bullen  3.600 10
J Harmes  3.400 11
T Bedford  3.075 12
C Spargo  2.975 13
K Pickett  2.550 14
M Hibberd  2.550 14
B Fritsch  2.325 16
C Salem  2.300 17
Jake Bowey  2.300 17
S Weideman # 2.225 19
H Petty  1.975 20
Ed Langdon  1.625 21
Ben Brown  0.950 22
Team Score 73.40  
Top 6 30.48  
Bottom 6 11.38  

# Hit outs to advantage not captured

Stats courtesy of footywire.com

Edited by Demon Dynasty
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Posted (edited)

Weighted Average Scores up to & including Rnd 15, 2022 vs H&A Season 2021

Player 2022 Score 2022 Rank 2021 Score % Change vs 2021 2021 Rank Change in Rank vs 2021
C Oliver 5.446 1 5.258 3.58 1 0
Jack Viney 4.238 2 3.171 33.65 8 6
C Petracca 4.139 3 4.041 2.43 2 -1
Steven May 4.041 4 3.926 2.93 3 -1
A Brayshaw 3.843 5 2.836 35.51 12 7
C Salem 3.775 6 3.879 -2.68 4 -2
Max Gawn # 3.369 7 3.439 -2.04 7 0
Ed Langdon 3.357 8 3.092 8.57 9 1
L Jackson # 3.238 9 2.355 37.49 21 12
J Harmes 3.162 10 3.520 -10.17 6 -4
J Jordon 3.127 11 2.908 7.53 10 -1
T Sparrow 3.048 12 2.023 50.67 28 16
L Dunstan 3.025 13 - - - -
Jake Bowey 3.002 14 2.881 4.20 11 -3
Jake Lever 2.954 15 3.661 -19.31 5 -10
Alex N-Bullen 2.923 16 2.388 22.40 19 3
T Bedford 2.599 17 - - - -
T Rivers 2.438 18 2.658 -8.28 13 -5
C Spargo 2.138 19 2.068 3.38 27 8
H Petty 2.116 20 2.086 1.44 26 6
Joel Smith 1.957 21 1.375 42.33 32 11
T McDonald # 1.939 22 2.516 -22.93 15 -7
K Pickett 1.931 23 2.378 -18.80 20 -3
J Hunt 1.927 24 2.597 -25.80 14 -10
A Tomlinson 1.925 25 2.475 -22.22 16 -9
Bayley Fritsch 1.896 26 2.155 -12.02 25 -1
S Weideman # 1.664 27 1.055 57.73 27 0
Ben Brown # 1.545 28 1.855 -16.71 30 2
Mitch Brown 1.513 29 2.475 -38.87 16 -13
J Melksham 1.433 30 1.853 -22.67 31 1
Daniel Turner* 1.200 31 - - - -
Average Team Score - Top 22 69.87   67.23 3.93    

# Hit outs to advantage not captured

* Only played one match...not an average score

Stats courtesy of footywire.com

Edited by Demon Dynasty
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On 6/24/2022 at 11:50 AM, Demon Dynasty said:

...

Bow wow Dogga!  Statistically his best game since joining the MFC.  Let's take a look at what the big fella produced last night....10 score involvements ... and a goal.

Special mention to Bedford who didn't just hit the scoreboard with those two gems racking up 7 score involvements as well.

...

Spargo's work coming inside very nice, 8 score involvements and first goal in a while which was great to see.

...

I know this is nitpicking, but I was pretty sure the score involvements included the goals/behinds, they weren't "as well as" their own scores. Is this correct?

If so, does that mean for kicking a goal a player would get points for both the goal and the SI?

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, deanox said:

I know this is nitpicking, but I was pretty sure the score involvements included the goals/behinds, they weren't "as well as" their own scores. Is this correct?

If so, does that mean for kicking a goal a player would get points for both the goal and the SI?

A good question Ox. 

I think the first part of your question you are asking if it includes points and goals yes?  If so yes it's any score.

Could only find one explanation from an official source for what the stat entails and that was Champion Data...

Score Involvement: Number of scoring chains where a player was involved with either a disposal, hitout-to-advantage, kick-in or knock-on. If a player has two disposals in the same scoring chain, he is credited with one score involvement.

The other is from the AFL site but the only stat they have similar is called a Score Assist...

Slightly different in that the explanation says

"creating a score by getting the ball to a team mate either by a disposal, knock on, ground kick, hit out or by winning a free kick before the advantage is paid to the goal scorer".

No chains it seems in this AFL "assist" version as it's a direct assist of course.  To avoid confusion here the AFL might have been better off calling this stat by its more commonly used term ... "Goal Assist".

Compare this to the Score Involvement stat where it appears to be any player (racking up a related disposal etc) involved in an unbroken chain that resulted in any score.

I doubt the player kicking the goal or point on the end of these chains  would be included in the score involvement stat as that would be double counting as you say.

Plenty of blog chatter / opinions but can't find any official explanation on google to confirm either way.  My gut feel says they wouldn't be double counting but happy to stand corrected.

Edited by Demon Dynasty
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@Demon Dynasty @deanox I can confirm that the score involvements do include the player's own goals and behinds. The giveaway is that a player always has at least as many score involvements as own scores. I guess the 'score involvements' metric is meant to stand on its own, as opposed to supplementing the goals/behinds.

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Thanks @WheeloRatings, this was my understanding too.

@Demon Dynasty I don't think it's too big a deal, but it is something I noted watching Charlie Spargo, who often has a high ratio of SIs to disposals without many scoring shots, while BBB or Fritsch often get similar ratios but lots of scoring shots themselves.

I think the "score assist" instead of goal assist are because if you set up a shot at goal, you've done your job, even if the other player fluffs it?

For everyone, here is a gloalssarybof all these stats: https://www.championdata.com/glossary/afl/#:~:text=Contested Possession%3A A possession which,central area of the ground.

(The definition of scoring chain seems to include the disposal that scores the goal, and score involvement is all disposals in the scoring chain, so makes sense it is counted under that definition.)

 

There are some strange interpretations in our statistical game too:

https://www.championdata.com/faqs/afl/

Win the hit out to advantage but get no stats if a free kick is also paid (similar if you take a contested mark but the umpires you a free kick for holding the man. Surely we should credit both stats here?)

Goal/score assists only count from intentional acts. Miskicks that are marked are deemed unintentional and therefore are not assists. (As if our game doesn't have enough grey areas!)

 

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40 minutes ago, deanox said:

Thanks @WheeloRatings, this was my understanding too.

@Demon Dynasty I don't think it's too big a deal, but it is something I noted watching Charlie Spargo, who often has a high ratio of SIs to disposals without many scoring shots, while BBB or Fritsch often get similar ratios but lots of scoring shots themselves.

I think the "score assist" instead of goal assist are because if you set up a shot at goal, you've done your job, even if the other player fluffs it?

For everyone, here is a gloalssarybof all these stats: https://www.championdata.com/glossary/afl/#:~:text=Contested Possession%3A A possession which,central area of the ground.

(The definition of scoring chain seems to include the disposal that scores the goal, and score involvement is all disposals in the scoring chain, so makes sense it is counted under that definition.)

 

There are some strange interpretations in our statistical game too:

https://www.championdata.com/faqs/afl/

Win the hit out to advantage but get no stats if a free kick is also paid (similar if you take a contested mark but the umpires you a free kick for holding the man. Surely we should credit both stats here?)

Goal/score assists only count from intentional acts. Miskicks that are marked are deemed unintentional and therefore are not assists. (As if our game doesn't have enough grey areas!)

 

 

I agree with your interpretation of why they have the "score assist" stat, in addition to the goal assist.

I guess I can understand the contested mark / free kick scenario, in that (a) both relate to the way the player took possession of the ball so it was either a mark or a free kick, and (b) the umpire would pay the free kick instead of a mark, which may be because the advantage rule remains an option, as there's no advantage from a mark.

I don't mind the hit-out to advantage not being paid when a free kick was paid in the ruck contest too. I agree it seems unfair, but the free kick was paid first so I suppose I get it.

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Thanks for the feedback guys.

There is also this old confirmation of scores being included in the score involvement stat from a 2016 post by this (now defunct?) Figuring Footy site...

https://www.figuringfooty.com/2016/11/21/your-clubs-most-important-avenue-to-goal-score-involvements-in-2016/

So assuming the above is correct this leads to my next point...

As i've been including 'score involvements' as part of a player's weighted averages score, which ultimately also lands in the overall team score, it would appear i should switch the score involvements data out (in future) and replace with the goal assist stat which does not double count yes?  The score assist stat might be a better option also but that is not available on the Footywire stats site that i use for data on these tables nor any other publicly available 'AFL stat' site that i'm aware of.

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14 hours ago, Demon Dynasty said:

So assuming the above is correct this leads to my next point...

As i've been including 'score involvements' as part of a player's weighted averages score, which ultimately also lands in the overall team score, it would appear i should switch the score involvements data out (in future) and replace with the goal assist stat which does not double count yes?  The score assist stat might be a better option also but that is not available on the Footywire stats site that i use for data on these tables nor any other publicly available 'AFL stat' site that i'm aware of.

I guess that depends on whether you assign different scores/weights to different stats. E.g. is a goal worth more than a score involvement? If so, you could adjust the weight that you assign to a goal to account for the fact the player will also be credited a score involvement.

Hypothetical Example
If a goal was worth 8 points, a behind 1 point, and a score involvement 0.5 points, then effectively a goal is actually worth 8.5 points, a behind 1.5 points and other score involvements worth 0.5 points. If you subtracted the 0.5 points from the value of a goal and behind and assign 7.5 points for a goal and 0.5 points for a behind, then a goal would effectively be worth 8 points and a behind 1 point.

Another way to achieve the same result would be to subtract a player's goals and behinds from their score involvements. So a player scoring 2 goals 1 behind with 8 total score involvements, had 5 "non-scoring" score involvements for want of a better term.

But I wouldn't necessarily suggest you remove score involvements altogether as they are an informative stat.

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