4 hours ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

🙋‍♀️ That’d be me. Thank you for such a well-written explanation. 🙂

Don't sell yourself short, WCW

You know your footy

There are clear reasons why we won the flag last season  ... clangers were irrelevant

We took risks backed up by superior talent ... but with inferior talent those risks could have really cost us

Biggest factor - fantastic overall recruitment over an 8 or 9 year period (in my view) Dating all the way back to when we recruited Viney & Hogan (who was virtually swapped for May)

Edited January 25, 20224 yr by Macca

Would be better if we could have something like Unforced Clangers vs Forced Clangers. Probably extends to disposal efficiency as well. You just cannot infer anything useful from some of these stats as the 'pressure' element isn't factored in. 

Having said that, both Trac and Clayton do their best work in close to the contest and are primed for quick release football so i'd hazard a guess that a high percentage of their total clangers is probably 'unforced'. Still, they are known to butcher an 'unpressured' ball every now and then so there definitely is an element of their game that they can improve. 

2 hours ago, CYB said:

Would be better if we could have something like Unforced Clangers vs Forced Clangers. Probably extends to disposal efficiency as well. You just cannot infer anything useful from some of these stats as the 'pressure' element isn't factored in. 

Having said that, both Trac and Clayton do their best work in close to the contest and are primed for quick release football so i'd hazard a guess that a high percentage of their total clangers is probably 'unforced'. Still, they are known to butcher an 'unpressured' ball every now and then so there definitely is an element of their game that they can improve. 

Yes, they need to improve !!!  🤣

9 hours ago, Winners at last said:

Yes, they need to improve !!!  🤣

Rubbish yes it would be good but really !!!

BTW The Bont has an average of 4.69 over his 26 games in 2021.

Trac averaged 5 and Clarry 5.1 something.in their 25 games.

That's  out of 30 possessions which is a 82% disposal average for Trac and Clarry is about 80%. Not too shabby.

Bont would be about 84%
M aybe clangers are bad disposal I would think. 

3 hours ago, 58er said:

Rubbish yes it would be good but really !!!

BTW The Bont has an average of 4.69 over his 26 games in 2021.

Trac averaged 5 and Clarry 5.1 something.in their 25 games.

That's  out of 30 possessions which is a 82% disposal average for Trac and Clarry is about 80%. Not too shabby.

Bont would be about 84%
M aybe clangers are bad disposal I would think. 

As Graeme Kennedy used to say to Rosie Sturgess in "The Wilsons" sketch on In Melbourne Tonight "it's a joke Joyce" !! 

9 hours ago, Winners at last said:

As Graeme Kennedy used to say to Rosie Sturgess in "The Wilsons" sketch on In Melbourne Tonight "it's a joke Joyce" !! 

Realise that WAL but the figures of changers change their looks a lot when total possessions is included in the equation.

Its when your defenders are up the list you worry because there clangers can lead to opposition goals. We had the best defence this year by a country mile 

13 hours ago, 58er said:

Rubbish yes it would be good but really !!!

BTW The Bont has an average of 4.69 over his 26 games in 2021.

Trac averaged 5 and Clarry 5.1 something.in their 25 games.

That's  out of 30 possessions which is a 82% disposal average for Trac and Clarry is about 80%. Not too shabby.

Bont would be about 84%
M aybe clangers are bad disposal I would think. 

Not always.  Definition from champion data is Disposal clangers are any kick or handball that directly turns the ball over to the opposition.

So I assume includes a point kicked no matter where from, and even Max Gawns kick that led to Spargo’s goal in the GF, as although it was a brilliant kick (50m on left foot to open forward line) it directly led to the dogs possession (even though they were under pressure). 

9 minutes ago, Watson11 said:

Not always.  Definition from champion data is Disposal clangers are any kick or handball that directly turns the ball over to the opposition.

So I assume includes a point kicked no matter where from, and even Max Gawns kick that led to Spargo’s goal in the GF, as although it was a brilliant kick (50m on left foot to open forward line) it directly led to the dogs possession (even though they were under 

Quick glance at any match stats, a clanger is most certainly not given for a behind. In fact, i believe its recorded as an effective disposal as it registers a score.  Out on full would be a clanger.  I liked the earlier suggestion re forced v unforced clangers. Would be a better reflection on ball use. 

On 1/25/2022 at 11:02 AM, Macca said:

Yeah, I'm talking about playing the game in a basic sense ... not every incident is the same and playing from behind can sometimes be advantageous.  Luck plays a part and sometimes defenders can be outpositioned if they are in front

But in a general sense, the player playing in front nearly always has an advantage as long as the ball is out in front of him or delivered correctly

.... unless the kicker knows that the intended recipient is likely to double back behind the defender, which Fritter is so good at.

1 hour ago, 58er said:

Realise that WAL but the figures of changers change their looks a lot when total possessions is included in the equation.

I can guarantee 100% that if they put me on the AFL field even in my youth I would get zero clangers. (0/0 = 0%)

Edited January 26, 20224 yr by monoccular

58 minutes ago, monoccular said:

.... unless the kicker knows that the intended recipient is likely to double back behind the defender, which Fritter is so good at.

Agreed but again, as a 'general' rule, the best percentage play when we're talking about clean clearances out of the middle is for the kicker to kick the ball out in front of a leading forward.  And that can be for any of the forwards.  Even Spargo & Kozzie

And I'm referencing clean clearances because that should be our forte given the talent we have in the midfield

But I too can give other examples where not having the front position can be advantageous

You've got to mix it up but if we were to attain 12+ scores in a basic, simple way, that's a coaches dream

And doing things in a simple way ( with superior talent of course) can blow the other team out of the water

We Demon supporters should know, we've seen it done to our team on numerous occasions

So now it's our turn to dish it out

As previously stated, the inside 50 count is just too vague a stat without much more analysis.  So if I've got the time, I will attempt to break it all down in certain the games (inside 50 analysis)

I've already worked out a way to do the exercise in shorthand!