Stats Files - 2021

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

7 hours ago, buck_nekkid said:

Thanks, Rusty.

Kozzie seemed to be running to the wrong places and trying too hard.  Would like to see more i50 tackles from him - i think this underscores his game when he does this, the rest happens.

Interesting list comparison:  Perhaps it showed up in that we have the legs and they ran out of puff and needed the lightning break.

Bottom 6 are a worry.Expect AVB to be at risk, and maybe sparrow.  Others have the runs on the board and Melksham may have done enough with his cameos and goals.

I think AVB and Sparrow's spots might be up for grabs Buck

Jones & Baker maybe until Viney returns?  However, so far there's been zero interest for those two from Goody & Co so i might be the only one that thinks that.

Agree Melk seemed to do just enough to hang in there.  Would just like to see him pressure more (effectively) in general without ball in hand.  Pretty clean in the wet so will do his confidence pretty good.  Let's hope he can maintain the rage as i personally think he can make a big difference with delivery inside 50 and an extra avenue to goal at the pointy end.

Edit:  just saw that Hunt is out so that leaves a spot for Hibb.  Lockhart also?

Edited August 11, 2021 by Rusty Nails

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

Weighted Average Scores up to & including Rnd 21, 2021 vs 2019

Player	2021 Score	2021 Rank	2019 Score	% Change vs 2019	2019 Rank	Change in Rank vs 2019
C Oliver	5.251	1	4.643	13.09	1	0
C Petracca	4.038	2	2.616	54.36	10	8
Steven May	3.967	3	2.446	62.18	14	11
C Salem	3.876	4	3.448	12.41	3	-1
Jake Lever	3.650	5	2.313	57.80	17	12
J Harmes	3.515	6	3.850	-8.70	2	-4
Max Gawn #	3.369	7	3.256	3.47	4	-3
J Bowey	3.200	8
Jack Viney	3.161	9	3.068	3.03	5	-4
Ed Langdon	3.113	10
A Brayshaw	2.941	11	2.894	1.62	6	-5
James Jordan	2.921	12
Trent Rivers	2.663	13
T McDonald #	2.622	14	2.150	21.95	19	5
Jayden Hunt	2.597	15	1.958	32.64	22	7
M Brown*	2.475	16
A Tomlinson	2.475	16
M Hibberd	2.438	18	2.124	14.78	20	2
L Jackson #	2.401	19
Alex N-Bullen	2.339	20	1.984	17.89	21	1
A Vandenberg	2.338	21
Oskar Baker*	2.325	22	1.714	35.65	29	7
K Pickett	2.289	23
Nathan Jones	2.214	24	2.711	-18.33	7	-17
Tom Sparrow	2.064	25	1.075	92.00	37	12
Bayley Fritsch	2.054	26	2.641	-22.23	9	-17
H Petty	2.054	26	1.905	7.82	24	-2
Charlie Spargo	2.005	28	1.375	45.82	35	7
J Melksham	1.942	29	1.931	0.57	23	-6
Neville Jetta	1.865	30	2.264	-17.62	18	-12
Ben Brown #	1.794	31
S Weideman	1.055	32	1.818	-41.97	27	-5
K Chandler*	0.250	33
Average Team Score - Top 22	67.68		59.62	13.50

Hit outs to advantage not captured

* Only played one match not an average score

Stats courtesy of footywire.com

Edited August 11, 2021 by Rusty Nails

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

And the AFL'S No.1 in aerial and ground ball intercept averages is!??...

Rise of the interceptors: The marking machines changing the game -

https://www.afl.com.au/news/662954

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

Rnd 22, 2021 MCG - Demons vs Crows

Our 2nd best conversion rate for the year only behind our Rnd 7 match vs the Kangas

Disposals Per Goal	23.4
% In50s Goal	30.8
Conversion %	69.6

This Rnd

Disposals Per Goal	22.0
% In50s Goal	27.1
Conversion %	66.7

Not getting overly excited with this win both from what i saw and statistically.  The team score only 6.5% better than our average team score in 2019 which was a horrid season against one of the worst teams in the AFL this season is a real worry for mine.  Having said that we were missing two of our best players (on their day) in Macca and May so still a fair amount of upside.

The three under performers / disappointments for mine, especially given how we lost to the Crows last time were Gus, Sparrow & Melk.  The two big positives that came out of today for me were Lingers and Salem who appear to be back to somewhere near their best.  And then Dogga, who seems to have gone to another level since his match against the Suns and must be a shoe in for the Rising Star surely.

When was the last time an MFC player kicked 7?

Player	Score	Rank
Christian Salem	4.625	1
Christian Petracca	4.625	1
Bayley Fritsch	4.375	3
Max Gawn #	3.925	4
Clayton Oliver	3.750	5
Charlie Spargo	3.350	6
Ed Langdon	3.325	7
Trent Rivers	3.200	8
Luke Jackson #	3.125	9
Harrison Petty	2.950	10
Kysaiah Pickett	2.950	10
James Harmes	2.800	12
James Jordon	2.675	13
Alex N-Bullen	2.650	14
Ben Brown #	2.525	15
Jake Lever	2.500	16
Jake Bowey	2.400	17
Michael Hibberd	2.375	18
Tom Sparrow	1.600	19
Joel Smith	1.450	20
Angus Brayshaw	1.250	21
Jake Melksham	1.050	22
Team Score	63.48
Top 6	24.65
Bottom 6	10.13

# Hit outs to advantage not captured

Stats courtesy of footywire.com

Edited August 15, 2021 by Rusty Nails

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

Weighted Average Scores up to & including Rnd 22, 2021 vs 2019

Player	2021 Score	2021 Rank	2019 Score	% Change vs 2019	2019 Rank	Change in Rank vs 2019
C Oliver	5.180	1	4.643	11.57	1	0
C Petracca	4.065	2	2.616	55.39	10	8
Steven May	3.967	3	2.446	62.18	14	11
C Salem	3.914	4	3.448	13.52	3	-1
Jake Lever	3.595	5	2.313	55.43	17	12
J Harmes	3.464	6	3.850	-10.03	2	-4
Max Gawn #	3.395	7	3.256	4.27	4	-3
Jack Viney	3.161	8	3.068	3.03	5	-3
Ed Langdon	3.124	9
J Bowey	2.933	10
James Jordan	2.908	11
A Brayshaw	2.861	12	2.894	-1.14	6	-6
Trent Rivers	2.688	13
T McDonald #	2.622	14	2.150	21.95	19	5
Jayden Hunt	2.597	15	1.958	32.64	22	7
M Brown*	2.475	16
A Tomlinson	2.475	16
L Jackson #	2.438	18
M Hibberd	2.433	19	2.124	14.55	20	1
Alex N-Bullen	2.354	20	1.984	18.65	21	1
A Vandenberg	2.338	21
Oskar Baker*	2.325	22	1.714	35.65	29	7
K Pickett	2.320	23
Nathan Jones	2.214	24	2.711	-18.33	7	-17
Bayley Fritsch	2.170	25	2.641	-17.83	9	-16
H Petty	2.113	26	1.905	10.92	24	-2
Charlie Spargo	2.069	27	1.375	50.47	35	8
Tom Sparrow	2.021	28	1.075	88.00	37	9
Ben Brown #	1.875	29
Neville Jetta	1.865	30	2.264	-17.62	18	-12
J Melksham	1.853	31	1.931	-4.04	23	-8
S Weideman	1.055	32	1.818	-41.97	27	-5
K Chandler*	0.250	33
Average Team Score - Top 22	67.31		59.62	12.90

Hit outs to advantage not captured

* Only played one match not an average score

Stats courtesy of footywire.com

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

Rnd 23, 2021 GMHBA - Cats vs Demons

I don't think many saw that coming.  Even the Cats!  Mr Faithful finishes with another No.1 ranking.  His equal 2nd best score for the season matching his Rnd 20 6.90 against the Suns.  While not his best game (statistically) for the season,  that was in Rnd 10 vs the Crows.  Where he almost single handedly got us over the line in scoring an off the charts 8.40  Having said that this was probably his most important for the year in many ways.

Lever's second half was super along with Max's last quarter and a half plus the winning goal after the siren.  Thought Stanley was all over him in that first half and much of the reason the Cats pounced in the 2nd term.  Personally thought Max looked shot at half time so proved me wrong and quite a come back.

While Harmes was Mr Fumbly bumbly in that first half i thought he stepped up in the second.  Then there was Kozzie.  Gave us the class we needed at times tonight.  Very nice game from the young rookie who also tackled and pressured hard this evening.

The biggest worry from tonight's match....Macca, who barely laid a glove on the ball unfortunately.  Is he really fully recovered?  Didn't look like it tonight.  Who comes in if he isn't able to get up this week?

Now for our well earned home final against the Lions at the G!  (if wishes were horses)...

Player	Score	Rank
C Oliver	6.900	1
Jake Lever	5.050	2
Max Gawn	4.350	3
J Harmes	4.300	4
K Pickett	3.600	5
C Petracca	3.525	6
Jack Viney	3.275	7
C Salem	3.175	8
Steven May	3.175	8
Alex N-Bullen	3.100	10
Jake Bowey	2.725	11
Ed Langdon	2.450	12
A Brayshaw	2.325	13
T Sparrow	2.050	14
C Spargo	2.050	14
Trent Rivers	2.025	16
B Fritsch	1.850	17
Ben Brown	1.675	18
H Petty	1.675	18
Joel Smith	1.300	20
Luke Jackson	0.700	21
Tom McDonald	0.500	22
Team Score	61.78
Top 6	27.73
Bottom 6	7.70

# Hit outs to advantage not captured

Stats courtesy of footywire.com

Edited August 21, 2021 by Rusty Nails

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

 

Error.....See below...

Edited August 22, 2021 by Rusty Nails

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

Weighted Average Scores Season 2021 vs 2019

Well well folks who would have thought.  Top of the table 2021.  Crazy times and loving it.  Season 2021 (top 22) average team  score just a tad off our 2018 season score by 3.3%.

Clarry you star!   What a year son and for me the best in the red & blue for him to date.  Possibly the best player i've witnessed at the MFC in terms of consistency & high level impact alongside Robbie.  Touch wood for the finals.  If the boys can stay up and about with their skills, play selfless footy and maintain the hunt we are in for a hell of a ride.

Just before we move on...it's worth noting last night would have to be one of the biggest discrepancies i've witnessed in terms of experience / games played / average age differentials...

	Average Attributes
Geelong	Attribute	Melbourne
188.2cm	Height	187.4cm
87.4kg	Weight	85.8kg
27yr 7mth	Age	24yr 8mth
147	Games	92.4

	Players By Games
Geelong	Games	Melbourne
3	Less than 50	7
5	50 to 99	2
3	100 to 149	10
11	150 or more	3

Fabulous finish at the Cattery, now let's have a look through some of the key numbers for season 2021...

The Top 5 (averages)...

• Meters Gained >  Tracc 517, May 422, Lingers 419, Clarry 412 & Salem 410 (honorary mention to Hunt in 6th with 327).
• Score Involvements >  Tracc 7.9   Clarry 7.2   Macca 6.1  Fritta 5.4  then Gawn/Kozzie tied for 5th with 5.3 each
• Tackles inside 50 >  ANB 1.91  Kozzie 1.64  Viney 1.58  Macca 1.25  & Ben Brown 1.20
• Clearance Kings > Clarry 7.6  Tracc 6.3  Viney / Gawn 4.3  & Harmes 3.20 
• Intercepts >  Lever 10.4  May 6.7  Bowey 6  Salem 5.9  & Petty 5.6
• Turnovers >  Tracc 6.5  Clarry 5.3  Viney 4.7  Salem 4.6  & Lingers 4.5
• Effective Disposals >  Clarry 22.1  Salem 19.4  Tracc 17.4  May 16.4  & Lingers 16.1
• Contested Marks >  Gawn 2.3  Lever 1.9  Macca 1.3  Ben Brown & May on 1.20 each
• Contested Possessions >  Clarry 17.7  Tracc 13.6  Gawn 10.4  Viney 10.3  & Harmes 9.1
• Uncontested Possessions >  Salem 17.5  Lingers 16.2  Tracc 15.1  Clarry 14.1  & Harmes 13.3
• Rebounds >  May 6.6  Salem 5.6  Lever 4.3  Hibb 3.2  & Rivers 3.2
• Inside 50s >  Tracc 6.7  Clarry 5.3  ANB 4.0  Viney 3.8  & Harmes 3.4
• Goals >  Fritta 2.2   Ben Brown 1.9  Kozzie 1.6  Macca  1.5  & Tracc 1.1

The Season that was 2021...

Player	2021 Score	2021 Rank	2019 Score	% Change vs 2019	2019 Rank	Change in Rank vs 2019
C Oliver	5.258	1	4.643	13.25	1	0
C Petracca	4.041	2	2.616	54.47	10	8
Steven May	3.926	3	2.446	60.51	14	11
C Salem	3.879	4	3.448	12.50	3	-1
Jake Lever	3.661	5	2.313	58.28	17	12
J Harmes	3.520	6	3.850	-8.57	2	-4
Max Gawn #	3.439	7	3.256	5.62	4	-3
Jack Viney	3.171	8	3.068	3.36	5	-3
Ed Langdon	3.092	9
James Jordan	2.908	10
J Bowey	2.881	11
A Brayshaw	2.836	12	2.894	-2.00	6	-6
Trent Rivers	2.658	13
Jayden Hunt	2.597	14	1.958	32.64	22	8
T McDonald #	2.516	15	2.150	17.02	19	4
M Brown*	2.475	16
A Tomlinson	2.475	16
M Hibberd	2.433	18	2.124	14.55	20	2
Alex N-Bullen	2.388	19	1.984	20.36	21	2
K Pickett	2.378	20
L Jackson #	2.355	21
A Vandenberg	2.338	22
Oskar Baker*	2.325	23	1.714	35.65	29	6
Nathan Jones	2.214	24	2.711	-18.33	7	-17
Bayley Fritsch	2.155	25	2.641	-18.40	9	-16
H Petty	2.086	26	1.905	9.50	24	-2
Charlie Spargo	2.068	27	1.375	50.40	35	8
Tom Sparrow	2.023	28	1.075	88.19	37	9
Neville Jetta	1.865	29	2.264	-17.62	18	-11
Ben Brown #	1.855	30
J Melksham	1.853	31	1.931	-4.04	23	-8
Joel Smith	1.375	32
S Weideman	1.055	33	1.818	-41.97	27	-6
K Chandler*	0.250	34
Average Team Score - Top 22	67.23		59.62	12.75

Hit outs to advantage not captured

* Only played one match not an average score

Stats courtesy of footywire.com

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

Qualifying Final, 2021 Adelaide Oval - Demons vs Lions

Clarry does it again!  Would add roughly 0.70 to Maxy for an idea of more accurate total score to allow for hit outs to advantage.  Very nice game from young Sparrow on the big stage.  Statistically Viney's best game for the season!

Top 5 Meters Gained > Tracc 699 (just ahead of Rich on 695 who had 900+ the previous week), Clarry 574, Gus 536 then Lingers & Viney on 488 a piece.

	Average Attributes
Melbourne	Attribute	Brisbane
187.4cm	Height	188.4cm
85.8kg	Weight	88.3kg
24yr 8mth	Age	26yr 4mth
93.4	Games	116.7

	Total Players By Games
Melbourne	Games	Brisbane
7	Less than 50	5
2	50 to 99	6
10	100 to 149	5
3	150 or more	7

Player	Score	Rank
C Oliver	5.375	1
Jack Viney	4.825	2
Alex N-Bullen	4.775	3
C Petracca	4.375	4
Ed Langdon	3.950	5
Jake Lever	3.850	6
C Salem	3.800	7
J Harmes	3.450	8
Max Gawn #	3.375	9
A Brayshaw	3.250	10
T Sparrow	3.025	11
Trent Rivers	2.525	12
B Fritsch	2.400	13
H Petty	2.125	14
Steven May	2.025	15
Ben Brown #	1.975	16
Jake Bowey	1.825	17
L Jackson #	1.800	18
K Pickett	1.600	19
C Spargo	1.475	20
Joel Smith	1.350	21
T McDonald	0.600	22
Team Score	63.75
Top 6	27.15
Bottom 6	8.65

# Hit outs to advantage not captured

Stats courtesy of footywire.com

Edited August 29, 2021 by Rusty Nails

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

Preliminary Final, 2021 Optus Stadium - Demons vs Cats

That was some win fellow minions but a big day looms.  Time to knuckle down and finish the job.

Our fourth best top 6 (ranked players) score for the season.  But take note!!  Our worst top 6 score for the season was against the Doggies in Rnd 19 scoring a lowly 21.73!  We'll need to be at our best or near it to beat this mob.  To give some idea of where that sits, when we beat them earlier in Rnd 11 our top six posted a weighted score of 27.03   In that match our bottom 6 only scored a lowly 7.63 vs the losing match in Rnd 19...a VG result 9.43

Rnd 19 was also our worst team score for the season at 55.03  However we also only scored a 58.0 when we beat them in Rnd 11 so we don't necessarily have to improve out of sight to win.  Stating the obvious but we are going to need the cream to really hold their form.   

Our conversion rate of 63.0% our 3rd best for the year behind Rnd 7 vs the Kangas (69.6%) and Rnd 22 vs the Crows (66.7%).

Maxy's adjusted score should be roughly 4.625 allowing for hit outs to advantage placing him just below Salem (statistically) on the night.  What a match from the big fella though.  His overall impact on the day was immense and cannot be accounted for here.

Two down one to go.  Carn the Mighty Demons!

Player	Score	Rank
C Petracca	5.925	1
Jack Viney	5.300	2
C Oliver	4.975	3
C Salem	4.800	4
Max Gawn #	3.925	5
Charlie Spargo	3.325	6
Ed Langdon	3.250	7
A Brayshaw	3.200	8
J Harmes	3.175	9
Ben Brown	2.700	10
Jake Lever	2.700	10
Bayley Fritsch	2.700	12
Alex N-Bullen	2.675	13
Jake Bowey	2.625	14
K Pickett	2.425	15
H Petty	2.325	16
L Jackson #	2.300	17
T Sparrow	2.275	18
M Hibberd	1.775	19
Trent Rivers	1.750	20
T McDonald #	1.375	21
J Jordon %	1.325	22
S May %	0.650	23
Team Score	66.83
Top 6	28.25
Bottom 6	10.80

# Hit outs to advantage not captured

% = Subbed.  Optimal game time reduced

Stats courtesy of footywire.com

Edited September 12, 2021 by Rusty Nails

[Fanatique Demon 2,642]

Good work, Rusty. One more with record scores, please.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

Grand Final Premiership Edition, 2021 Optus Stadium - Demons vs Bulldogs

Can you believe it!   Don't wake me up folks as i'm still in some fantasy wizard of oz land somewhere on earth where i am dreaming that we won the 2021 Premiership thrashing the 2nd best team of the year and where we beat all comers in the lead up finals.

In this dream Tracc had a day out, scoring his highest rating for the season (and 2nd best score of any player for the year only behind that of Clarry's 8.40 in Rnd 10 against the Crows) while winning the Norm Smith Medal.

The team also scored it's 3rd highest team score for the season.  Only bettered in Rnd 2 vs the Saints (70.33) and Rnd 6 vs The Tigers (71.93)  Also our best 'Top 6 Rated Players' score for the year!!

Out of interest the Team Score was also the exact same average team score we produced in season 2018's home & away (69.50)

We're back baby....the Mighty Demons are finally back!  May the dream continue (FD you got your wish!)

Player	Score	Rank
Christian Petracca	7.550	1
Christian Salem	6.325	2
Clayton Oliver	5.725	3
Jack Viney	4.825	4
Alex N-Bullen	4.075	5
Luke Jackson #	3.750	6
Jake Bowey	3.425	7
Angus Brayshaw	3.375	8
Ed Langdon	3.225	9
Steven May	3.100	10
Tom Sparrow	2.925	11
Ben Brown #	2.850	12
Max Gawn #	2.750	13
Bayley Fritsch	2.650	14
Jake Lever	2.525	15
James Harmes	2.200	16
Trent Rivers	2.025	17
Tom McDonald	2.000	18
Charlie Spargo	1.550	19
Michael Hibberd	1.225	20
Harrison Petty	0.775	21
Kysaiah Pickett	0.650	22
Team Score	69.50
Top 6	32.25
Bottom 6	8.23

# Hit outs to advantage not captured

Stats courtesy of footywire.com

Edited September 29, 2021 by Rusty Nails

[Hellaintabadplacetobe 4,294]

Rusty I didn’t know where else to put this but do you know how many teams have one a flag from outside the 8 from previous season?

Not many I assume.

[bing181 9,193]

On 9/29/2021 at 2:01 PM, Rusty Nails said:

Grand Final Premiership Edition, 2021 Optus Stadium - Demons vs Bulldogs

Can you believe it!   Don't wake me up folks as i'm still in some fantasy wizard of oz land somewhere on earth where i am dreaming that we won the 2021 Premiership thrashing the 2nd best team of the year and where we beat all comers in the lead up finals.

In this dream Tracc had a day out, scoring his highest rating for the season (and 2nd best score of any player for the year only behind that of Clarry's 8.40 in Rnd 10 against the Crows) while winning the Norm Smith Medal.

The team also scored it's 3rd highest team score for the season.  Only bettered in Rnd 2 vs the Saints (70.33) and Rnd 6 vs The Tigers (71.93)  Also our best 'Top 6 Rated Players' score for the year!!

Out of interest the Team Score was also the exact same average team score we produced in season 2018's home & away (69.50)

We're back baby....the Mighty Demons are finally back!  May the dream continue (FD you got your wish!)

Player	Score	Rank
Christian Petracca	7.550	1
Christian Salem	6.325	2
Clayton Oliver	5.725	3
Jack Viney	4.825	4
Alex N-Bullen	4.075	5
Luke Jackson #	3.750	6
Jake Bowey	3.425	7
Angus Brayshaw	3.375	8
Ed Langdon	3.225	9
Steven May	3.100	10
Tom Sparrow	2.925	11
Ben Brown #	2.850	12
Max Gawn #	2.750	13
Bayley Fritsch	2.650	14
Jake Lever	2.525	15
James Harmes	2.200	16
Trent Rivers	2.025	17
Tom McDonald	2.000	18
Charlie Spargo	1.550	19
Michael Hibberd	1.225	20
Harrison Petty	0.775	21
Kysaiah Pickett	0.650	22
Team Score	69.50
Top 6	32.25
Bottom 6	8.23

# Hit outs to advantage not captured

Stats courtesy of footywire.com

Great work again. But don't understand how Fritsch gets 6 goals and is only rated 14th, e.g. below Ben Brown?

 

[The Lobster Effect 885]

1 hour ago, Hellaintabadplacetobe said:

Rusty I didn’t know where else to put this but do you know how many teams have one a flag from outside the 8 from previous season?

Not many I assume.

I know that Richmond finished 13th in 2016

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

5 hours ago, bing181 said:

Great work again. But don't understand how Fritsch gets 6 goals and is only rated 14th, e.g. below Ben Brown?

 

Can't argue with that Bing.  The importance of those six goals and the timing / manner in which he kicked them certainly deserved more kudos and a higher placing on this table.  Highlights the limitations of relying on stats alone.  They just can't tell the full story on match day nor do they capture it all much of the time.  As i always say, watch the game carefully and only go to stats as a bit of a by-play to see what your eyes / memory might have missed at times. 

There are of course good stats and rubbish stats going in to a player's output / ratings on game day especially most of the publicly available ones used here.

Some players can have half as many as another yet still have a much more significant impact due to the quality of them.  I guess Harmes and Kozzie are reasonable examples here.  Neither you would say were in the league of the top 5 or 6 but boy some of the little cameos they brought on the day were immense and don't necessarily show up on the tables with regard to how much they're input impacted.

Some of Kozzie's pessure acts had significant impact resulting in turnovers on the day with some resulting in goals to our boys.

Harmes was also impacting with his relentless attack on the ball and opponents through pressure acts which aren't captured here (aside from tackles).  And how do you place a value on that clean take from a disputed loose ball out of the pack at HF by Harmes, kicking it lace out to the fat side of Fritta for the first come back goal around the 11 minute mark of the third?  Part of this play is included in this table (the effective disposal, the score involvement) but not the clean nature of the gather, the power of the burst from the pack, nor the weight of the kick to hit Fritta lace out giving us the best chance to score.  Nor the pressure of the scoreboard and time remaining that required excellence all round from both players!

These are the nuances of the game that we love and that stats can never fully account for.

But to get to part of your question as well.  How does it happen in these tables.  Well Benny kicked three as we know.  But he also accumulated roughly the same number of score involvements (8 vs Fritta 9), four one percenters (Fritta 0), one tackle (Fritta 0), two contested marks (Fritta 0) and one intercept (Fritta 0).  Basically Benny made up ground on Fritta's extra goals (statistically in these tables only) by adding value in other areas.  However, watching the game, we all know who was well out in front on the day in terms of how much he impacted the game and also the mere fact that 6 goals in a GF is an immense achievement on it's own.

Hope that helps explain things a tad Bing.

Edited October 3, 2021 by Rusty Nails

[bing181 9,193]

7 hours ago, Rusty Nails said:

However, watching the game, we all know who was well out in front on the day in terms of how much he impacted the game

Yes, but didn't want to suggest that Brown's game was sub-par either, quite the reverse thought Benny had a great game and did all that you could have expected of a key forward. Also, how many of those 6 does Fritsch get if Brown isn't there?

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

3 hours ago, bing181 said:

Yes, but didn't want to suggest that Brown's game was sub-par either, quite the reverse thought Benny had a great game and did all that you could have expected of a key forward. Also, how many of those 6 does Fritsch get if Brown isn't there?

Yes i agree Bing.  BB also played a VG game and played a big role on the day.  It's just that Fritta's accuracy in kicking those 6 plus getting us going late in the 3rd took him to another level in terms of the value?

Inadvertently my comment about Fritta being well out in front is poorly worded as they were both solid contributors on the day with Fritta no doubt having a bit of a day out in terms of making the most of his opportunities.

Edited October 3, 2021 by Rusty Nails

[dimmy 1,307]

That is the problem with judging purely by stats. I can remember Paul Roos saying that Jeremy Howe played the best "no kick" half one game, just by the impact on the areas he was involved.

Kossie is becoming a young Cyril in that he "creates expectation"because he is so quick in to the area. (However once he perfects his tackling, he will be extremely dangerous) . This created expectation leads to increased pressure insofar as disposal which occured in the first Q.( but no stat !)

LIkewise TMacs strength for Sparrows goal. (Channel 7 commentators ignored his effort).

The more I have seen the Finals  (We actually beat the Bulldogs again last Saturday (according to Fox) even after beating Brisbane & Geelong. No wonder they were tired.), the more I have begun to appreciate Viney's efforts over the Finals. He created the space for Clarrie & Trac to show their stuff. The same can be said for Harmesy & Gus. A fantastic team approach.

Question: How do you get the stats with "Pressure Acts" as distinct from 1% ?  To be fair I feel that a lot of stats centre around disposals irrelevant to Effective disposal ( Can someone explain the actual criteria )

But thanks, Rusty Nails for the posts .,

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

50 minutes ago, dimmy said:

That is the problem with judging purely by stats. I can remember Paul Roos saying that Jeremy Howe played the best "no kick" half one game, just by the impact on the areas he was involved.

Kossie is becoming a young Cyril in that he "creates expectation"because he is so quick in to the area. (However once he perfects his tackling, he will be extremely dangerous) . This created expectation leads to increased pressure insofar as disposal which occured in the first Q.( but no stat !)

LIkewise TMacs strength for Sparrows goal. (Channel 7 commentators ignored his effort).

The more I have seen the Finals  (We actually beat the Bulldogs again last Saturday (according to Fox) even after beating Brisbane & Geelong. No wonder they were tired.), the more I have begun to appreciate Viney's efforts over the Finals. He created the space for Clarrie & Trac to show their stuff. The same can be said for Harmesy & Gus. A fantastic team approach.

Question: How do you get the stats with "Pressure Acts" as distinct from 1% ?  To be fair I feel that a lot of stats centre around disposals irrelevant to Effective disposal ( Can someone explain the actual criteria )

But thanks, Rusty Nails for the posts .,

Thanks Dimmy.  I only use effective disposals as part of the weighted composite score not general disposals as i feel this is likely to be a better indicator of quality vs quantity.

As for pressure acts they aren't readily available other than when the Sun reviews a match the day/days following in the paper.  I could subscribe online or physically buy it every week i guess but don't want to lay $ out to the Sun just for one data set.  I would happily add this (and other Champion data) into the mix if it was easier to obtain.

For anyone interested here's the official version of Pressure Acts & 1%ers.

1%ers:  Includes any of four metrics;  a spoil, knock on, shepherd or a smother.

Pressure Act (courtesy of championdata.com):  Where a player applies pressure from behind an opponent by chasing. They must be gaining ground or applying pressure significant enough to hurry the ball carrier to dispose of the ball.

[dworship 3,342]

1 hour ago, Rusty Nails said:

Thanks Dimmy.  I only use effective disposals as part of the weighted composite score not general disposals as i feel this is likely to be a better indicator of quality vs quantity.

As for pressure acts they aren't readily available other than when the Sun reviews a match the day/days following in the paper.  I could subscribe online or physically buy it every week i guess but don't want to lay $ out to the Sun just for one data set.  I would happily add this (and other Champion data) into the mix if it was easier to obtain.

For anyone interested here's the official version of Pressure Acts & 1%ers.

1%ers:  Includes any of four metrics;  a spoil, knock on, shepherd or a smother.

Pressure Act (courtesy of championdata.com):  Where a player applies pressure from behind an opponent by chasing. They must be gaining ground or applying pressure significant enough to hurry the ball carrier to dispose of the ball.

From what I've seen of the pressure stats; Viney, Harmes and Kossie were 1, 2 & 3. Absolutely the under-sung and embodiment of selfless footy. I have no doubt that this is recognized by the Coaches and Players and the buy in from the entire group has been one of the keys in the fostering of the team first approach. Ultimately they have created belief and with it success. It was great for you to acknowledge that the intangibles cannot really be measured by "stats". I've often thought that stats are a great measure of "effect"  but not necessarily of "cause".

Thanks for your input during the season Rusty. It's been a great thread and much appreciated.

[dworship 3,342]

19 minutes ago, dworship said:

From what I've seen of the pressure stats; Viney, Harmes and Kossie were 1, 2 & 3. Absolutely the under-sung and embodiment of selfless footy. I have no doubt that this is recognized by the Coaches and Players and the buy in from the entire group has been one of the keys in the fostering of the team first approach. Ultimately they have created belief and with it success. It was great for you to acknowledge that the intangibles cannot really be measured by "stats". I've often thought that stats are a great measure of "effect"  but not necessarily of "cause".

Thanks for your input during the season Rusty. It's been a great thread and much appreciated.

Have to admit to some confusion in definition /scoring, what's the difference between pressure points and pressure acts? Regardless, it seems I got it wrong and  Clarry appears to have provided the most and I need to add ANB and Salem into the mix.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

1 hour ago, dworship said:

Have to admit to some confusion in definition /scoring, what's the difference between pressure points and pressure acts? Regardless, it seems I got it wrong and  Clarry appears to have provided the most and I need to add ANB and Salem into the mix.

Thanks DW.  Lots of copying and pasting and double / triple checking.

Pressure points are the weighted sum of pressure acts.  And it would seem there might be a few different metrics that classify as an act as well vs just the one general (chasing) one i quoted earlier.

Even more reluctant to go there after reading these 😄

The nuances are so slight with some of these Champion / other stats i sometimes wonder how any stats scorer (working for Champion) could actually keep up with it all in a live sense and do it accurately.  Trolling through the tapes might help their cause here but crikey.

Go to the 'P' section here if you want some clarification or possibly more confusion 😂

https://www.championdata.com/glossary/afl/

[dimmy 1,307]

Thanks for the info and the discussion.

The more we get into the Stats argument, the more we agree that the Premiership that we won (about 3 times last week)  was because of a committed group of young people.

When you think that Kossie, Trent Rivers, Tom Sparrow and young Jake Bowey are being introduced into this sort of environment that has proved so successful by people like Harmesy, ANB (most improved footballer),Gus etc etc.

Just think how seamlessly Bowey and Petty (no frills) and Sparrow (especially in the finals) have fitted into their roles and been so effective.