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Can we compete with the best?

Demonland
Demonland
in Melbourne Demons

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The Richmond v Sydney game last night, is a great example of why we struggle to compete with the top teams. Richmond is amazing at absorbing pressure and then releasing. How many last quarters have they won in tight games? How many have we lost?

For me, while there are no standout teams, Richmond, West Coast (minus injuries) and Sydney stand a rank above. All of these teams have match winners, all of these teams can grind out games, and all of these teams have finals experience. We are not there on any of those fronts. 

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      On 29/06/2018 at 01:39, Wiseblood said:

    So what?  It's meaningless.  It's such a meaningless thing that I have no idea why it matters so much to you.  Every club has made mistakes, both small and large, over time.  You are so caught up on nothing stuff that it's unfathomable.

    Why do i bother

    Keep wearing your Red & Blue Sunnies

    everything will be fine

    ”Nothing to see here...”

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      On 29/06/2018 at 01:44, Jaded said:

    The Richmond v Sydney game last night, is a great example of why we struggle to compete with the top teams. Richmond is amazing at absorbing pressure and then releasing. How many last quarters have they won in tight games? How many have we lost?

    Yet in rounds 7, 8, and 9 last year they lost 3 consecutive games by under a goal.  How quickly people forget the journey of other clubs as they're mired down with the negativity of their own..

    Their best 6 players are:

    Martin 191 games, Rance 189, Riewoldt 239, Cotchin 211, Edwards 221, and let's say Lambert with 66 ahead of Caddy, Vlastuin and a couple of others.  That's 1,117 games experience.

    Our best 6 (within reason)

    Gawn 87, Viney 93, Oliver 48, Hogan 64, T. McDonald 134, and Jones 252.  Cases could be mounted for Jetta, Hibberd ...

    That's 678 games.

    Richmond have been building towards this form and competitiveness for a long time.  When their best players had similar games experience they were being called Ninthmond.

    I'd argue that at the same stage of development we're a better list and team. 

    And we're learning quickly.  

    Edited by ProDee

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      On 29/06/2018 at 04:11, ProDee said:

    Yet in rounds 7, 8, and 9 last year they lost 3 consecutive games by under a goal.  How quickly people forget the journey of other clubs as they're mired down with the negativity of their own..

     

    Ummmm where did I say anything about them last year? Richmond have been flakey for years. They made yet never won finals. They were a joke for a long time, nobody is denying that. 

    I was just saying that they have now reached peak maturity and can absorb pressure that we can't. They also have better and more mature leadership across the field, and match winners.

    I never once said this was not something we are capable of, but we are not there yet, as proven this year against more mature teams. Do you disagree? 

    Still think that we don't have Dusty-type match winners, and I am not 100% sure we have a potential one on the list. Trac has been a huge letdown. 

     

    Edited by Jaded

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      On 29/06/2018 at 05:42, Jaded said:

    Ummmm where did I say anything about them last year? Richmond have been flakey for years. They made yet never won finals. They were a joke for a long time, nobody is denying that. 

    I was just saying that they have now reached peak maturity and can absorb pressure that we can't. They also have better and more mature leadership across the field, and match winners.

    I never once said this was not something we are capable of, but we are not there yet, as proven this year against more mature teams. Do you disagree? 

    Still think that we don't have Dusty-type match winners, and I am not 100% sure we have a potential one on the list. Trac has been a huge letdown. 

     

    The point being Richmond were able to sort out their issues IN SEASON.

    I don't believe the season is lost and some of what you and others are complaining about can be sorted out before the year's out.

    The wrist slitting by some is way too premature.

    As for what we've all seen thus far ?  Pointing out the obvious is pointing out the obvious.  Some just don't agree that it's "stage fright" or some other nebulous view from SWYL over what happened in 1970 repeating itself.

    Edited by ProDee

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      On 29/06/2018 at 06:20, ProDee said:

    The point being Richmond were able to sort out their issues IN SEASON.

    I don't believe the season is lost and some of what you and others are complaining about can be sorted out before the year's out.

    The wrist slitting by some is way too premature.

    As for what we've all seen thus far ?  Pointing out the obvious is pointing out the obvious.  Some just don't agree that it's "stage fright" or some other nebulous view from SWYL over what happened in 1970 repeating itself now.

    That’s right. Some just don’t agree

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      On 29/06/2018 at 04:11, ProDee said:

    Yet in rounds 7, 8, and 9 last year they lost 3 consecutive games by under a goal.  How quickly people forget the journey of other clubs as they're mired down with the negativity of their own..

    Their best 6 players are:

    Martin 191 games, Rance 189, Riewoldt 239, Cotchin 211, Edwards 221, and let's say Lambert with 66 ahead of Caddy, Vlastuin and a couple of others.  That's 1,117 games experience.

    Our best 6 (within reason)

    Gawn 87, Viney 93, Oliver 48, Hogan 64, T. McDonald 134, and Jones 252.  Cases could be mounted for Jetta, Hibberd ...

    That's 678 games.

    Richmond have been building towards this form and competitiveness for a long time.  When their best players had similar games experience they were being called Ninthmond.

    I'd argue that at the same stage of development we're a better list and team. 

    And we're learning quickly.  

    True except for Ninthmond. That is from the 200s and before most of those mentioned were even playing. They played through 3 years of making and losing finals, including, comically, a team that finished 9th in Carlton after Essendon was disqualified. 

    We absolutely need to play finals. It doesn't matter if lose. Those Richmond players played through 66 games in finals years, 3 finals, and then 44 games of knowing what finals pressure is like, making finals and winning games.

    Anyone that expects us to do a Bulldogs or Richmond are kidding themselves. Similarly, anyone blindly throwing games experience is also kidding themselves. We should have played finals last year. We didn't. If we miss this year, how can we possibly know and learn about what it takes to play in finals pressure? Even the young Bulldogs had finals experience before their flag. As it stands, it's not H&A experience that is holding us back. It's finals experience. And we are within reaching distance. This is why we got Vince and Lewis. What Jones has played for. Otherwise it's hopeless. 

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      On 29/06/2018 at 06:20, ProDee said:

    The point being Richmond were able to sort out their issues IN SEASON.

    I don't believe the season is lost and some of what you and others are complaining about can be sorted out before the year's out.

    The wrist slitting by some is way too premature.

    As for what we've all seen thus far ?  Pointing out the obvious is pointing out the obvious.  Some just don't agree that it's "stage fright" or some other nebulous view from SWYL over what happened in 1970 repeating itself.

    In season ? 

    Their real turnaround happened out of season. The box was turned up side down and shaken violently.

    At the same time the list was looked upon with big red textas.

    There were fine tunings In Season...but it was a different car effectively.

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      On 29/06/2018 at 06:26, praha said:

    True except for Ninthmond. That is from the 200s and before most of those mentioned were even playing. They played through 3 years of making and losing finals, including, comically, a team that finished 9th in Carlton after Essendon was disqualified. 

    We absolutely need to play finals. It doesn't matter if lose. Those Richmond players played through 66 games in finals years, 3 finals, and then 44 games of knowing what finals pressure is like, making finals and winning games.

    I'm aware of all that.

    Melbourne will play finals this year, but I agree that we're exceedingly unlikely to win a premiership in 2018.

    Unlike Richmond, when we start playing at the pointy end regularly, I don't believe it will take our 4th finals series in a 5 year stretch to win a final.  Much depends on whether you've got to go interstate, but unlike others, I don't see many of these "top teams" that regularly get referenced.

     

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      On 29/06/2018 at 06:38, beelzebub said:

    In season ? 

    Their real turnaround happened out of season. The box was turned up side down and shaken violently.

    At the same time the list was looked upon with big red textas.

    There were fine tunings In Season...but it was a different car effectively.

    I've got you on ignore, but a quirk of the system is seeing an ignored poster's content when you happen to post at the same time.

    Once again, thanks Captain Obvious.

    But anyone who watched Richmond last year knows their game was light years better in the back half of the season when compared to the first half.  Including when they lost 3 games in a row by under a goal in rounds 7-9.  Imagine the carry on by their nuffies at the time.

    They also trained all year to play two talls, this changed with the injury to Ben Griffiths.  It ended up being the best thing that happened to them.

     

    Edited by ProDee

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      On 29/06/2018 at 06:47, ProDee said:

    I've got you on ignore, but a quirk of the system is seeing an ignored poster's content when you happen to post at the same time.

    Once again, thanks Captain Obvious.

    But anyone who watched Richmond last year knows their game was light years better in the back half of the season when compared to the first half.  Including when the lost 3 games in a row by under a goal in rounds 7-9.  Imagine the carry on by their nuffies at the time.

    They also trained all year to play two talls, this changed with the injury to Ben Griffiths.  It ended up being the best thing that happened to them.

     

    Keep me on ignore...you don't deal well with facts do you. 

    The refining was in season.. and you have the hide to call me capt obvious.. youre capt oblivious 

    Change at Richmond came because of CHANGE.. wholesale change. If thats obvious then paint me 20 shades of it

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    • Like 1
      On 29/06/2018 at 00:07, Sir Why You Little said:

    I am talking about the mechanics. WHY did the club baulk when a player like that is standing in front of them???

    So many years as an extra, treading water has left this club lacking focus so often. 

    Magnificent words and so true! 

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      On 29/06/2018 at 02:08, Sir Why You Little said:

    Why do i bother

    Keep wearing your Red & Blue Sunnies

    everything will be fine

    ”Nothing to see here...”

    It has nothing to do with 'Red and Blue Sunnies'.  You're harping on about a draft from 2012 and how we missed on Wines.  Why?  What does that have to do with 2018?

    The answer is nothing.  Why don't you harp on about us taking Morton when Dangerfield was still there.  Why aren't you harping on about us being smart enough a few years ago to see the talent that Clayton Oliver has and drafting him ahead of Parish?  

    It's just meaningless drivel from you.  You're stretching something to suit your views that can't be stretched that far.

      On 29/06/2018 at 06:47, ProDee said:

    I've got you on ignore

     

    I've got him on ignore as well but, thankfully, no quirk in the system to waste my time.  Hope yours is sorted soon.

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    • Like 1
      On 29/06/2018 at 08:00, Wiseblood said:

    It has nothing to do with 'Red and Blue Sunnies'.  You're harping on about a draft from 2012 and how we missed on Wines.  Why?  What does that have to do with 2018?

    The answer is nothing.  Why don't you harp on about us taking Morton when Dangerfield was still there.  Why aren't you harping on about us being smart enough a few years ago to see the talent that Clayton Oliver has and drafting him ahead of Parish?  

    It's just meaningless drivel from you.  You're stretching something to suit your views that can't be stretched that far.

    I've got him on ignore as well but, thankfully, no quirk in the system to waste my time.  Hope yours is sorted soon.

    You can call it drivel if you like i call it a continuous history as it has happened SO MANY TIMES BEFORE

    The last 2 weeks worry me greatly. When pressure is applied we collapse. 

    NOTHING HAS CHANGED except personel. 

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      On 29/06/2018 at 08:34, Rod Grinter Riot Squad said:

    A straight kick by Max and an umpire not making up his own version of the blocking rule and we probably wouldn’t be having this conversation.....

    Agreed.  That Melksham free against is arguably the worst decision this year.  He kicks that and we win I suspect.

      On 29/06/2018 at 08:49, Sir Why You Little said:

    You can call it drivel if you like i call it a continuous history as it has happened SO MANY TIMES BEFORE

    The last 2 weeks worry me greatly. When pressure is applied we collapse. 

    NOTHING HAS CHANGED except personel. 

    How you could be "worried" by last week is beyond me.  It shows a complete lack of understanding of a game you apparently love.

    We smashed a top eight interstate team on their own dunghill in just about every metric that matters.  19 times out of 20 we win that game and your takeaway is to be very "worried" ?  

    You're not the most nuanced supporter, are you ?

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    • Haha 1
      On 29/06/2018 at 08:49, Sir Why You Little said:

    You can call it drivel if you like i call it a continuous history as it has happened SO MANY TIMES BEFORE

    The last 2 weeks worry me greatly. When pressure is applied we collapse. 

    NOTHING HAS CHANGED except personel. 

    So why do you only focus on the negative history?  We've had both types of history in the last 50 years, yet you seem to cuddle up to the negative side at night.  It's the only reason I could explain why you're waffling on about the 2012 draft, which was 6 years ago.

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    • Like 1
      On 29/06/2018 at 09:06, ProDee said:

     

    How you could be "worried" by last week is beyond me.  It shows a complete lack of understanding of a game you apparently love.

    We smashed a top eight interstate team on their own dunghill in just about every metric that matters.  19 times out of 20 we win that game and your takeaway is to be very "worried" ?  

    You're not the most nuanced supporter, are you ?

    We didn’t score for the last 40 minutes. 

    I saw it all unravel...

    Don’t be rude btw. No need for it. 

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    • Like 1
      On 29/06/2018 at 09:08, Wiseblood said:

    So why do you only focus on the negative history?  We've had both types of history in the last 50 years, yet you seem to cuddle up to the negative side at night.  It's the only reason I could explain why you're waffling on about the 2012 draft, which was 6 years ago.

    Nothing positive about the last 54 years at all

    Humiliation and Pity are not positive

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      On 29/06/2018 at 08:34, Rod Grinter Riot Squad said:

    A straight kick by Max and an umpire not making up his own version of the blocking rule and we probably wouldn’t be having this conversation.....

    If your referring to jake m being penalised agreed. Strangest decision Ive seen all year.

    And there have been  few.

     

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    • Like 1

      On 29/06/2018 at 04:11, ProDee said:

    Yet in rounds 7, 8, and 9 last year they lost 3 consecutive games by under a goal.  How quickly people forget the journey of other clubs as they're mired down with the negativity of their own..

    Their best 6 players are:

    Martin 191 games, Rance 189, Riewoldt 239, Cotchin 211, Edwards 221, and let's say Lambert with 66 ahead of Caddy, Vlastuin and a couple of others.  That's 1,117 games experience.

    Our best 6 (within reason)

    Gawn 87, Viney 93, Oliver 48, Hogan 64, T. McDonald 134, and Jones 252.  Cases could be mounted for Jetta, Hibberd ...

    That's 678 games.

    Richmond have been building towards this form and competitiveness for a long time.  When their best players had similar games experience they were being called Ninthmond.

    I'd argue that at the same stage of development we're a better list and team. 

    And we're learning quickly.  

    Thank you, PD. Exactly what I would have said...

    I find the double standard that so many supporters seem to possess really hard to fathom. Some continue to completely miss the patterns that suggest we are clearly trending upwards and that our inconsistencies are certainly not unique for this stage of our list's age profile.

    We are not far off. That's not to say we'll win the flag this year, but very soon, if we can keep key players on the park, we'll break out.

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    • Like 2
      On 29/06/2018 at 09:09, Sir Why You Little said:

    We didn’t score for the last 40 minutes. 

    We've scored more goals than anyone else in the competition, including Richmond who've played one more game.  The only other team that can reach our goal tally this round is Collingwood if they score 17 goals.  And that's also with a one game advantage.

    The last thing you need to worry about is our scoring.

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    • Like 2
      On 29/06/2018 at 09:30, ProDee said:

     

    The last thing you need to worry about is our scoring.

    Redifines Idiocy.

    In a gamed defined by a scoreboard, apparently scoring isnt a priority.

    You're an absolute Einstein in your lunchbox.

    You have mates ;)

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