Post Match Discussion - Round 14

[Radar Detector 1,347]

We’re going to go on a tear again now. This is just like a couple of months ago. Shocking performance followed by an improved (but losing) effort. Hopefully we get it right for the aints next week and capitalise in the good draw we have over the next month.

If we’re still in Top 4 contention in 3 weeks time, which we should be, i’d Back us to take a scalp or 2 in the latter part of the year and get a bit of momentum.

We can’t, however, drop any of the winnable games coming up.

Edited June 24, 2018 by Radar Detector

[picket fence 17,099]

1 minute ago, Radar Detector said:

We’re going to go on a tear again now. This is just like a couple of months ago. Shocking performance followed by an improved (but losing) effort. Hopefully we get it right for the aunts next week and capitalise in the good draw we have over the next month.

If we’re still in Top 4 contention in 3 weeks time, which we should be, i’d Back us to take a scalp or 2 in the latter part of the year and get a bit of momentum.

We can’t, however, drop any of the winnable games coming up.

And this is our greatest test!!

[Demons11 6,943]

12 minutes ago, SFebey said:

No I’m not, we have no stars to win games. And we especially don’t have any leaders to do it, they go missing. Just my thoughts, not here to argue. Think we need a bit of a rejig 

We have enough talent that will be stars if not already. 

The Tigers players you mentioned are all 25+ years of age. 

Hogan, Oliver, Viney, Lever and Trac will be just as good if not better.  Oliver and Hogan arguably are already there.  

I am not saying you but some supporters think we should go through undefeated.   Port Adelaide in Adelaide is a tough road trip and we should have won but the signs of progession we show is enormous.  

Edited June 24, 2018 by Demons11

[SFebes 4,884]

2 minutes ago, Demons11 said:

We have enough talent that will be stars if not already. 

The Tigers players you mentioned are all 25+ years of age. 

Hogan, Oliver, Viney, Lever and Trac will be just as good if not better.  Oliver and Hogan arguably are already there.  

My point was more they’re poorly skilled bar Oliver. Most of our side is very ordinary with their kicking, at the moment, the only one I’d back in is Melksham.

Top picks, Martin/Cotchin next level with their kicking compared to Oliver/Petracca/Brayshaw and Viney is terrible.

Edited June 24, 2018 by SFebey

[Satyriconhome 10,740]

4 minutes ago, SFebey said:

My point was more they’re poorly skilled bar Oliver. Most of our side is very ordinary with their kicking, at the moment, the only one I’d back in is Melksham.

Salem, Fritsch, Jetta, Omac, Hogan or as per the norm, you just going on the last game, a loss, so a whine

A fast edit, Brayshaw is a good kick as well

Edited June 24, 2018 by Satyriconhome

[Demons11 6,943]

1 minute ago, SFebey said:

My point was more they’re poorly skilled bar Oliver. Most of our side is very ordinary with their kicking, at the moment, the only one I’d back in is Melksham.

Top picks, Martin/Cotchin next level with their kicking compared to Oliver/Petracca/Brayshaw and Viney is terrible.

Go back and watch Martin from a few years ago, he turned it over more than anyone. 

Tigers would have just as many bad kicks as us. 

I agree they still need some outside pace and skill but I see this as the next building block to the contested ball players they recruited.

[SFebes 4,884]

1 minute ago, Demons11 said:

Go back and watch Martin from a few years ago, he turned it over more than anyone. 

Tigers would have just as many bad kicks as us. 

I agree they still need some outside pace and skill but I see this as the next building block to the contested ball players they recruited.

I agree Tigers aren’t a very skilful side, they seem to win games on sheer will and desperation. They’re an odd team to watch

[SFebes 4,884]

Saty if you’re replying to me don’t bother, I blocked you a week ago, enjoy.

[Demons11 6,943]

Just now, SFebey said:

I agree Tigers aren’t a very skilful side, they seem to win games on sheer will and desperation. They’re an odd team to watch

I agree with that.  I went to Adelaide on Friday and the effort put in was enormous. 

I don’t get how some on here as so negative when we play like that.

[SFebes 4,884]

6 minutes ago, Demons11 said:

I agree with that.  I went to Adelaide on Friday and the effort put in was enormous. 

I don’t get how some on here as so negative when we play like that.

Proud of the effort, no doubt. Just concerned that we’re not going as well as last year so far, I’m not convinced.

Lack skill and pace

No more whacky positional changes

Leadership needs addressing, Jones is the biggest culprit 

We need to stop losing games at team selection, not that it was the reason Fri night.

Should not have lost that game but at least we showed up and showed some heart 

Need to replace Vince at EOY with the next Hodge

Edited June 24, 2018 by SFebey

[Macca 16,941]

4 hours ago, jumbo returns said:

Respect for travelling all that way to see your team

But, surely you enjoyed the contest? Every player did not take a backward's step, in a sniping, hostile environment! Even Jack flipped Dixon!

This intensity is now a minimum

I have some optimism now

So do I JR but I've had that optimism for quite some time ... we're building nicely.

However,  we didn't kick a goal from about half way through the 3rd quarter and that is on us ... or,  good play by them.  Or a combination of both factors. 

They flooded back and played us on the counter-attack (exploiting our lack of true leg speed)  They also pressured & pressed our ball carriers so much so that we often just scrubbed the ball forward in a haphazard manner.  Putting aside the aesthetics of the game,  the game was like a final in terms of pressure.

But we'll live to fight another day and I can't fault the energy,  effort or endeavour displayed by the team.  But as for the application and delivery skills under pressure ... we need to get a lot better if we're to be a true contender.

I still believe we're a work in progress and are a 12-14 win team.  It's not a bad spot to be in as long as we've got a good plan to get better.  The list isn't a premiership list - yet.

Edited June 24, 2018 by Macca

[Adam The God 30,150]

On 6/23/2018 at 9:30 AM, PJ_12345 said:

Couple of comments on reflection:

- I dont think we have got the right team yet. Needed Spargo or Garlett for some forward pressure.

- Fritsch is amazing and really look forward to him developing more.

- Viney was commendable.

- Umpiring was deplorable.

- Lever out is a bigger loss than we all think.

This is an interesting point and I agree. Here's the team I'd be going with in the second half of the year for most oppositions. Although, we should be happy to put out a team that enables us to counter the opposition of the week.

I'd be going with a backline of Oscar Mac, Jetta, Hibberd, Lewis, Petty and Joel Smith. When Lever returns, I think Lewis drops out of this back 6, Petty takes the second KPF and Lever the third opposition tall. But for the rest of the year, I'd give Petty 10 games if possible and let him develop alongside Lewis and Jetta's guidance. There are some real competitors in that group and a good mixture of pace, intercept ability and attacking prowess. That suits Goodwin's game plan to a tee. 

Salem and Jones should be playing between wing, half forward and half back. Jones' pace is beginning to expose him, so I'd look at Wing-Defencing him and almost hiding him on the field, to ensure he doesn't get too exposed for pace (that probably means half back). His problem is he can't really play any other position, high half forward, deep forward or deep back. He's got 2 seasons left I reckon and that probably includes the second half of this season. He's not polished enough or damaging enough. If Gaff comes in next year, that will relegate Jones or Lewis to Casey as soon as Round 1, 2019.

When Hunt comes back later this season, I truly believe we should look at Salem and Hunt on wings at the expense of Jones (I know, I know that won't happen). Hunt's versatility will also really compliment Goodwin's game style - he can play, forward, back or on a wing. 

On to the midfield, Brayshaw has to be in the centre square. Not on a wing or half back. His position is inside/outside mid. He's actually an incredibly well rounded midfielder. Give him another 20 games and he'll be in our top 3 or 4 players. Oliver and Viney are the other centre square starters, alongside Gawn. I'd like to see Salem in there at times too.

The forwardline is the biggest variable in our side and should be dictated by the opposition we are playing, but as a rule, Tommy Mac (fwd/wing), Hogan (fwd/centre), Smith/Weideman (fwd/ruck), Melksham, Harmes (fwd/wing), Fritsch (fwd/wing/half back), Spargo, Petracca (fwd/mid) and Garlett (fwd/mid). There's a good mixture of height, pace and tackling in that lot. In 2018, Tim Smith's more developed body means he'll play most weeks ahead of Weideman, but Sam provides a good back up to ensure we don't have to revert to Pedersen ever again. The only way that happens is if injuries really hit our talls.

Neal-Bullen is a hard runner, but he undoes too much of his good work with poor disposal and decision making. He looks good against ordinary opposition but his disposal under pressure is ordinary. So he should be cusp 22 for mine. 

The above team has sufficient x-factor, pace, pressure-bringers, ball winners, ball users and goal kickers in it to make the 8 in the second half of 2018. We need to make sure we don't go too small in defence, in favour of all out attack, because as we saw against a couple of key talls, we were out-marked too easily at times and on the bigger MCG, this will be even more evident and likely. If we can find the right mix this season, as you say PJ, we'll scare some teams in September.

[demon4eva 110]

On 6/22/2018 at 10:33 PM, Jaded said:

I think we will probably scrape into the 8, and lose week one. 

Too many players who give us nothing under pressure. Jetta and McDonald literally bleed for us, while Petracca, Tyson, Hogan, Neal Bullen etc disappear. 

Losing Lever was the end of our season. 

I hope we make finals to get over that mental hurdle, but sadly we are nowhere near good enough to impact in September. 

A brave effort. 

Collingwood will be in top four and we will be sixth. That is very demoralising to see us go down.

[SFebes 4,884]

33 minutes ago, A F said:

This is an interesting point and I agree. Here's the team I'd be going with in the second half of the year for most oppositions. Although, we should be happy to put out a team that enables us to counter the opposition of the week.

I'd be going with a backline of Oscar Mac, Jetta, Hibberd, Lewis, Petty and Joel Smith. When Lever returns, I think Lewis drops out of this back 6, Petty takes the second KPF and Lever the third opposition tall. But for the rest of the year, I'd give Petty 10 games if possible and let him develop alongside Lewis and Jetta's guidance. There are some real competitors in that group and a good mixture of pace, intercept ability and attacking prowess. That suits Goodwin's game plan to a tee. 

Salem and Jones should be playing between wing, half forward and half back. Jones' pace is beginning to expose him, so I'd look at Wing-Defencing him and almost hiding him on the field, to ensure he doesn't get too exposed for pace (that probably means half back). His problem is he can't really play any other position, high half forward, deep forward or deep back. He's got 2 seasons left I reckon and that probably includes the second half of this season. He's not polished enough or damaging enough. If Gaff comes in next year, that will relegate Jones or Lewis to Casey as soon as Round 1, 2019.

When Hunt comes back later this season, I truly believe we should look at Salem and Hunt on wings at the expense of Jones (I know, I know that won't happen). Hunt's versatility will also really compliment Goodwin's game style - he can play, forward, back or on a wing. 

On to the midfield, Brayshaw has to be in the centre square. Not on a wing or half back. His position is inside/outside mid. He's actually an incredibly well rounded midfielder. Give him another 20 games and he'll be in our top 3 or 4 players. Oliver and Viney are the other centre square starters, alongside Gawn. I'd like to see Salem in there at times too.

The forwardline is the biggest variable in our side and should be dictated by the opposition we are playing, but as a rule, Tommy Mac (fwd/wing), Hogan (fwd/centre), Smith/Weideman (fwd/ruck), Melksham, Harmes (fwd/wing), Fritsch (fwd/wing/half back), Spargo, Petracca (fwd/mid) and Garlett (fwd/mid). There's a good mixture of height, pace and tackling in that lot. In 2018, Tim Smith's more developed body means he'll play most weeks ahead of Weideman, but Sam provides a good back up to ensure we don't have to revert to Pedersen ever again. The only way that happens is if injuries really hit our talls.

Neal-Bullen is a hard runner, but he undoes too much of his good work with poor disposal and decision making. He looks good against ordinary opposition but his disposal under pressure is ordinary. So he should be cusp 22 for mine. 

The above team has sufficient x-factor, pace, pressure-bringers, ball winners, ball users and goal kickers in it to make the 8 in the second half of 2018. We need to make sure we don't go too small in defence, in favour of all out attack, because as we saw against a couple of key talls, we were out-marked too easily at times and on the bigger MCG, this will be even more evident and likely. If we can find the right mix this season, as you say PJ, we'll scare some teams in September.

Good post, agree with all of it.

[shorty 233]

1 hour ago, A F said:

This is an interesting point and I agree. Here's the team I'd be going with in the second half of the year for most oppositions. Although, we should be happy to put out a team that enables us to counter the opposition of the week.

I'd be going with a backline of Oscar Mac, Jetta, Hibberd, Lewis, Petty and Joel Smith. When Lever returns, I think Lewis drops out of this back 6, Petty takes the second KPF and Lever the third opposition tall. But for the rest of the year, I'd give Petty 10 games if possible and let him develop alongside Lewis and Jetta's guidance. There are some real competitors in that group and a good mixture of pace, intercept ability and attacking prowess. That suits Goodwin's game plan to a tee. 

Salem and Jones should be playing between wing, half forward and half back. Jones' pace is beginning to expose him, so I'd look at Wing-Defencing him and almost hiding him on the field, to ensure he doesn't get too exposed for pace (that probably means half back). His problem is he can't really play any other position, high half forward, deep forward or deep back. He's got 2 seasons left I reckon and that probably includes the second half of this season. He's not polished enough or damaging enough. If Gaff comes in next year, that will relegate Jones or Lewis to Casey as soon as Round 1, 2019.

When Hunt comes back later this season, I truly believe we should look at Salem and Hunt on wings at the expense of Jones (I know, I know that won't happen). Hunt's versatility will also really compliment Goodwin's game style - he can play, forward, back or on a wing. 

On to the midfield, Brayshaw has to be in the centre square. Not on a wing or half back. His position is inside/outside mid. He's actually an incredibly well rounded midfielder. Give him another 20 games and he'll be in our top 3 or 4 players. Oliver and Viney are the other centre square starters, alongside Gawn. I'd like to see Salem in there at times too.

The forwardline is the biggest variable in our side and should be dictated by the opposition we are playing, but as a rule, Tommy Mac (fwd/wing), Hogan (fwd/centre), Smith/Weideman (fwd/ruck), Melksham, Harmes (fwd/wing), Fritsch (fwd/wing/half back), Spargo, Petracca (fwd/mid) and Garlett (fwd/mid). There's a good mixture of height, pace and tackling in that lot. In 2018, Tim Smith's more developed body means he'll play most weeks ahead of Weideman, but Sam provides a good back up to ensure we don't have to revert to Pedersen ever again. The only way that happens is if injuries really hit our talls.

Neal-Bullen is a hard runner, but he undoes too much of his good work with poor disposal and decision making. He looks good against ordinary opposition but his disposal under pressure is ordinary. So he should be cusp 22 for mine. 

The above team has sufficient x-factor, pace, pressure-bringers, ball winners, ball users and goal kickers in it to make the 8 in the second half of 2018. We need to make sure we don't go too small in defence, in favour of all out attack, because as we saw against a couple of key talls, we were out-marked too easily at times and on the bigger MCG, this will be even more evident and likely. If we can find the right mix this season, as you say PJ, we'll scare some teams in September.i

Sorry I can't  agree with the X - Factor comment , there are players with potential , on the current list Fritz could be, and prior to him we had Jurrah, Robbo, Flash, Oooz ,Wizard, Schwarz before the knees , Javovich, Flower and Crosswell. 

[Adam The God 30,150]

33 minutes ago, shorty said:

Sorry I can't  agree with the X - Factor comment , there are players with potential , on the current list Fritz could be, and prior to him we had Jurrah, Robbo, Flash, Oooz ,Wizard, Schwarz before the knees , Javovich, Flower and Crosswell. 

Players mentioned who IMO have x-factor and can turn a game: Hogan, Tommy Mac, Petracca, Garlett and even Oliver. 

[jumbo returns 6,740]

3 hours ago, SFebey said:

Saty if you’re replying to me don’t bother, I blocked you a week ago, enjoy.

Don't block - debate

[shorty 233]

4 minutes ago, A F said:

Players mentioned who IMO have x-factor and can turn a game: Hogan, Tommy Mac, Petracca, Garlett and even Oliver. 

I did see TMac win that game against WC last year , in my opinion to have X factor you hit the scoreboard consistently and say to yourself that guy's a bloody freak! We may have different definitions.

[Skin Deeamond 339]

3 hours ago, Demons11 said:

We have enough talent that will be stars if not already. 

The Tigers players you mentioned are all 25+ years of age. 

Hogan, Oliver, Viney, Lever and Trac will be just as good if not better.  Oliver and Hogan arguably are already there.  

I am not saying you but some supporters think we should go through undefeated.   Port Adelaide in Adelaide is a tough road trip and we should have won but the signs of progession we show is enormous.  

The players will be very sore from that game in Adelaide. It was a bruising encounter.

[Hot as Hell 466]

4 hours ago, Demons11 said:

I agree with that.  I went to Adelaide on Friday and the effort put in was enormous. 

I don’t get how some on here as so negative when we play like that.

I was also there Demons11. 

I totally agree it says a very physical match. Something like the intensity of a finals game. 

We should have nailed it with our time in possession but poor quality inside 50s and poor kicking kept the door open. 

We had a lot of players who played below their best. I see a lot of learning and a lot of upside in both the playing group and the coach. 

This is exactly the type of year we need to go through to ready us for our window. 

Fairytale thoughts of us replicating Dogs and Toiges this year are just that. They each played finals and fell before they took their prize. Hopefully we will have our time to do the same. 

Edited June 24, 2018 by Hot as Hell
Typo

[SFebes 4,884]

37 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

Don't block - debate

I don’t have time for anyone, online or in real life, who lie and don’t admit they’re wrong. The end.

Besides, look at the way he speaks to posters who ask him simple questions.

Big 3 games coming up for dees, percentage and wins important 

Edited June 24, 2018 by SFebey

[Adam The God 30,150]

1 hour ago, shorty said:

I did see TMac win that game against WC last year , in my opinion to have X factor you hit the scoreboard consistently and say to yourself that guy's a bloody freak! We may have different definitions.

We may do. For me, it's an ability to pull something out of your arse and turn a game that looks like slipping away.

[jumbo returns 6,740]

22 minutes ago, SFebey said:

I don’t have time for anyone, online or in real life, who lie and don’t admit they’re wrong. The end.

Besides, look at the way he speaks to posters who ask him simple questions.

Big 3 games coming up for dees, percentage and wins important 

His comments are actually quite temperate, compared to a few

[Demons11 6,943]

1 hour ago, Hot as Hell said:

I was also there Demons11. 

I totally agree it says a very physical match. Something like the intensity of a finals game. 

We should have nailed it with our time in possession but poor quality inside 50s and poor kicking kept the door open. 

We had a lot of players who played below their best. I see a lot of learning and a lot of upside in both the playing group and the coach. 

This is exactly the type of year we need to go through to ready us for our window. 

Fairytale thoughts of us replicating Dogs and Toiges this year are just that. They each played finals and fell before they took their prize. Hopefully we will have our time to do the same. 

?

[rolling fog 1,207]

22 hours ago, SFebey said:

We don’t have Riewoldt, Cotchin, Rance or Dusty....

Just B grade plodders and leaders who can’t hide quick enough when we need them.

Leaders who want the ball when it counts