28 minutes ago, Wrecker45 said:

Neither. I obviously don't sit where you do.

I don't see a persons personal choice of whom they marry, is an issue our politicians should be involved in.

And as a result am offended when they assume to try to control people in this way.

Further, when you say you don't see it (therefore it doesn't exist), I'll ask you, how many openly homosexual couples do we see at the Brownlow night celebration?

Answer: None. So in your rosey world view every things hunky dory, in mine its evidence that the 5-10% of players that are Gay, feel humiliated and oppressed to the extent of hiding and being ashamed of their sexual preference.

It is obvious you don't sit where I do. 

I've no problem though saying where you sit is wrong, cruel and offensive.

If you want to understand the issues at a deeper level, go watch "I am not your [censored]" at ACMI. It's a searing exploration of the mindset of those who feel its ok to oppress others, and make them wrong for it.

 

Edited September 21, 20177 yr by PaulRB

26 minutes ago, Wrecker45 said:

By people like Nicky Winmar calling it out for what it is. 

 

Of course, he wouldn't have had to do that if the then VFL had taken on the issue of racial abuse prior to Winmar's magnificent gesture. Unfortunately,  not everyone had the courage of Winmar. I suspect there were many victims too scared to stand up for themselves who are forced to suffer in silence. That's why organisations have a responsibility to take a stand when they believe something is wrong and should be corrected.

 

 

9 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Of course, he wouldn't have had to do that if the then VFL had taken on the issue of racial abuse prior to Winmar's magnificent gesture. Unfortunately,  not everyone had the courage of Winmar. I suspect there were many victims too scared to stand up for themselves who are forced to suffer in silence. That's why organisations have a responsibility to take a stand when they believe something is wrong and should be corrected.

 

 

Organisations should support individuals rights not drive their own interpretation of them.

What Nicky Winmar did was courageous and was rightly supported by the then VFL.

No number of indigenous rounds instigated by the out of touch AFL will ever benefit a cause in the same way Nicky Winmar did.

 

25 minutes ago, Wrecker45 said:

Organisations should support individuals rights not drive their own interpretation of them.

What Nicky Winmar did was courageous and was rightly supported by the then VFL.

No number of indigenous rounds instigated by the out of touch AFL will ever benefit a cause in the same way Nicky Winmar did.

 

Indigenous Round actually exposes a huge number of people to indigenous culture (Australian culture) that they otherwise wouldn't have the opportunity to see.  If you were a New Zealander, you'd see it every time a National team takes the field and does the Hakka.  Most people don't get to see a Welcome to Country, or see Aboriginal Art, songs and Dance.  They don't get to see totems or hear stories such as that of Bunjil a few years back at the G.  You have magnificent artists, some who are current and past players, who are able to share their artwork on jumpers and shoes.   I fail to see what's so shocking and offensive about this??

It's Australia's culture and we very rarely get to see it.  The AFL chooses to celebrate and promote it.  There's no attack, there's no agenda whereby you're going to be any worse off afterwards for having been exposed to aboriginal dance, music and art.

 

That Nicky Winmar photo was taken in 1993.  Players have since used racial taunts on the field, spectators have since been reprimanded for racist abuse in the crowd.  People still throw bananas at players and Lamumba's nickname at Collingwood was Chimp.  It must be an ongoing sustained effort to stamp out discrimination or else the message is quickly forgotten.

You assume by your commentary that racist abuse is only directed towards persons of colour.Is this true?

3 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

Indigenous Round actually exposes a huge number of people to indigenous culture (Australian culture) that they otherwise wouldn't have the opportunity to see.  If you were a New Zealander, you'd see it every time a National team takes the field and does the Hakka.  Most people don't get to see a Welcome to Country, or see Aboriginal Art, songs and Dance.  They don't get to see totems or hear stories such as that of Bunjil a few years back at the G.  You have magnificent artists, some who are current and past players, who are able to share their artwork on jumpers and shoes.   I fail to see what's so shocking and offensive about this??

It's Australia's culture and we very rarely get to see it.  The AFL chooses to celebrate and promote it.  There's no attack, there's no agenda whereby you're going to be any worse off afterwards for having been exposed to aboriginal dance, music and art.

 

That Nicky Winmar photo was taken in 1993.  Players have since used racial taunts on the field, spectators have since been reprimanded for racist abuse in the crowd.  People still throw bananas at players and Lamumba's nickname at Collingwood was Chimp.  It must be an ongoing sustained effort to stamp out discrimination or else the message is quickly forgotten.

We are all Australians no matter our heritage. Would you support a "whites" round that celebrates all the good and influential things white settlement has had on this country? Of course not. 

The same principal should apply across the board.

 

Just now, 64" said:

You assume by your commentary that racist abuse is only directed towards persons of colour.Is this true?

Of course no.

Just now, Wrecker45 said:

We are all Australians no matter our heritage. Would you support a "whites" round that celebrates all the good and influential things white settlement has had on this country? Of course not. 

The same principal should apply across the board.

 

Advance Australia Fair is played at the start of every final and Grand Final.

Absolutely, without my Grandfather and my dads brother fighting to protect this country in the 2nd World War and sacrificing there life against the japanese l and you would probably not be here.

2 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

Advance Australia Fair is played at the start of every final and Grand Final.

And so it should be because it is the national anthem that we can all unite under.

It doesn't matter your race, gender, religion or leftism we all unite for 1 song.

1 minute ago, 64" said:

Absolutely, without my Grandfather and my dads brother fighting to protect this country in the 2nd World War and sacrificing there life against the japanese l and you would probably not be here.

So... ANZAC Day.

Your sarcasm defines you teamplayedfine.Ron Barrasi would be impressed.

5 minutes ago, Wrecker45 said:

We are all Australians no matter our heritage. Would you support a "whites" round that celebrates all the good and influential things white settlement has had on this country? Of course not. 

The same principal should apply across the board.

 

Are we? Ignoring for the moment our international supporters, those of us who live here aren't necessary "all Australians". Many are recent immigrants who have not been "naturalised" (terrible word to use, by the way). Nevertheless, I suspect what you are saying (again, ignoring international supporters) is that we all live in Australia.

Your main point, that we don't need a "whites" round and therefore, by extension we don't need a round that supports other social issues misses the point that minorities - whether by race, religion, gender or any other categorisation - are continually under-represented, under-supported and, in many instances, abused. Or, to put it another way, only a white male of an anglo-saxon background in this country doesn't understand what it's like to be part of a minority and prefers the status quo.

2 minutes ago, 64" said:

Your sarcasm defines you teamplayedfine.Ron Barrasi would be impressed.

100% literal.

We celebrate, acknowledge and remember that sacrifice on ANZAC day.  The AFL attempts to make a contribution to education and acknowledgment of that sacrifice on that day.  

2 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Are we? Ignoring for the moment our international supporters, those of us who live here aren't necessary "all Australians". Many are recent immigrants who have not been "naturalised" (terrible word to use, by the way). Nevertheless, I suspect what you are saying (again, ignoring international supporters) is that we all live in Australia.

Your main point, that we don't need a "whites" round and therefore, by extension we don't need a round that supports other social issues misses the point that minorities - whether by race, religion, gender or any other categorisation - are continually under-represented, under-supported and, in many instances, abused. Or, to put it another way, only a white male of an anglo-saxon background in this country doesn't understand what it's like to be part of a minority and prefers the status quo.

It's a shame you don't recognise recent immigrants as Australian and dare I say it racist.

And of course you go on to blame white males which reinforces your race profiling habbits.

18 minutes ago, 64" said:

Absolutely, without my Grandfather and my dads brother fighting to protect this country in the 2nd World War and sacrificing there life against the japanese l and you would probably not be here.

I therefore assume you support the right of our brave and proud LGBT soldiers and military personnel to marry whomever they see fit?

Well the YES sign has come down less than 24 hours after it went up.

Hmm I wonder how many tens of thousands that cost and is Gil picking up the tab?

 

la dee vina highly offensive and discriminatory comments about white anglo saxons.

4 minutes ago, 64" said:

la dee vina highly offensive and discriminatory comments about white anglo saxons.

It is ok 64 you are allowed to insult white anglo saxon types just ask the PC police.

The AFL seems to becoming more like the self proclaimed morality police by the day. From sacking senior adult employees shagging consenting adults to signing on to this debate it just gets worse by the day.

Outside of the fact that there seems to be a dedicated round to something every other week there are some positive events, anybody that disagrees with celebrating Anzac Day is either a foreigner or completely ignorant in regards to Australian History, I get the arguments against indigenous round - minority group and all but the Aboriginal people are not some blow in minority group they are a part of Australian history and AFL history so happy with that and of course BCNA is a fabulous event highlighting something that affects us all.

Why would the AFL choose this fight though? All of the events above have a huge amount of public support but polling on this issue shows it was 73% in favour a year ago, 63% three months ago and just 55% last week, by mid November when the dust settles on trend it will be a 50/50 thing and could even go down so I find it bizarre that the AFL would put its name to something which will alienate as many people as it pleases. There was no chance they were ever go to side with the No campaign, that would lead to protests at AFL house every day from today to November but they actually didn't need to get involved, to stay neutral and out of the discussion would have upset only the most extreme, instead they have managed to divide the football world.

 

AFL House has been evacuated after they received a security threat over their support.

This entire situation is a terribly sad reflection on the state of society right now. Divisive, expensive and entirely avoidable, the lot of it.

3 minutes ago, Big Demon said:

The AFL seems to becoming more like the self proclaimed morality police by the day. From sacking senior adult employees shagging consenting adults to signing on to this debate it just gets worse by the day.

Outside of the fact that there seems to be a dedicated round to something every other week there are some positive events, anybody that disagrees with celebrating Anzac Day is either a foreigner or completely ignorant in regards to Australian History, I get the arguments against indigenous round - minority group and all but the Aboriginal people are not some blow in minority group they are a part of Australian history and AFL history so happy with that and of course BCNA is a fabulous event highlighting something that affects us all.

Why would the AFL choose this fight though? All of the events above have a huge amount of public support but polling on this issue shows it was 73% in favour a year ago, 63% three months ago and just 55% last week, by mid November when the dust settles on trend it will be a 50/50 thing and could even go down so I find it bizarre that the AFL would put its name to something which will alienate as many people as it pleases. There was no chance they were ever go to side with the No campaign, that would lead to protests at AFL house every day from today to November but they actually didn't need to get involved, to stay neutral and out of the discussion would have upset only the most extreme, instead they have managed to divide the football world.

 

So it's ok for the causes you agree with but not others?

And even the polling you quote says they're putting forward a view supported by the majority... It's not a 'minority issue' when the majority support it.

Edited September 21, 20177 yr by TeamPlayedFine39
Spelling

2 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

So it's ok for the causes you agree with but not others?

And even the polling you quote says they're putting forward a view supported by the majority... It's not a 'minority issue' when the majority support it.

No, just that there are too many. I go to the football to watch football not to be educated on some different social issue every week.

The point re the polling is that the trend is showing that this will be a 50/50 thing when all is said and done come November given current trends so no the AFL may actually end up in the minority.

 

4 minutes ago, SaberFang said:

AFL House has been evacuated after they received a security threat over their support.

This entire situation is a terribly sad reflection on the state of society right now. Divisive, expensive and entirely avoidable, the lot of it.

interesting afl house is housed in etihad stadium named after an islamic theocracy owned airline. a state that bans homosexuality and has severe corporal punishments for it. if the afl was sincere (and we all know where there motives lie) they would find a new sponsor for the stadium and publicly condemn the uae for it's treatment of homosexuals.

and pigs might fly 

3 minutes ago, Big Demon said:

No, just that there are too many. I go to the football to watch football not to be educated on some different social issue every week.

The point re the polling is that the trend is showing that this will be a 50/50 thing when all is said and done come November given current trends so no the AFL may actually end up in the minority.

 

How is putting up a sign saying 'YES' on a Wednesday afternoon forcing education on you??