The Importance of Jordan Lewis

[PaulRB 6,435]

There was a patch in the second when the Doggies got physical, then kicked a couple and it was "finals like". Lewis was one of several that were unfazed and enabled us to plough on when previously we may have dropped our bundle... 

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 6,815]

He's still cracking in playing his part for mine. He's not a liability he's intructions on field can only be a gd thing rather than a bad thing.

[nutbean 8,838]

It doesn't matter that he WAS a 4 times premiership player or a B&F winner.

That was in the past. It's what he was going to bring to the club now and in the future that matters. 

I loved that we did the deal. I could see that he was aging and slowing but I believed that he had some miles in the legs. What I was hoping for is the leadership that we have long been crying out for. He did let us down with his suspension and last week he did play poorly. He knows where to run and how to fill holes.

What he has done week in and week out is offer coaching/structure/leadership on the field. He is close to giving himself whiplash because he is moving his head around so much on the field to make sure everyone is where they should be. He is constantly barking direction. This sort of stuff is invaluable. 

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

11 hours ago, martin said:

 Lewis was awesome in the first half when the game was on the line.   Haters will be circling like vultures

Lewis wasn't awesome, he played his part like a lot of others.

11 hours ago, PaulRB said:

There was a patch in the second when the Doggies got physical, then kicked a couple and it was "finals like". Lewis was one of several that were unfazed

Lewis was part of a team that was unfazed. 

1 hour ago, nutbean said:

What he has done week in and week out is offer coaching/structure/leadership on the field. He is close to giving himself whiplash because he is moving his head around so much on the field to make sure everyone is where they should be. He is constantly barking direction. This sort of stuff is invaluable. 

I can't talk for TGR, nor do I want to, but the response to yesterdays game is a fine example of the exaggerated adulation Lewis receives for a solid performance.  At the time of writing this about 40 people have cast votes for players in yesterdays game and only about 8 have included Lewis in their best 6.  The first 3 vote givers covered 10 players and Lewis was not amongst them.  But reading the posts above I get the impression that without Lewis we might well have lost.

Reality is Lewis was solid.  I don't remember any great bits of play but I remember his first handball under little pressure missing the target by some distance and the panicked punch at the ball that gave Daniels the Dogs first goal.

I also looked for the whiplash he may have given himself directing the hapless hordes many here seem to think we have on the ground .  I saw Nev Jetta and Bernie Vince directing traffic all the time.  Jones, McDonald and Viney likewise and Watts up forward.  The reality is if we granted everyone the status Lewis is granted for pointing and directing others we'd we overflowing with on field coaches and yet many here seem to think Lewis is critical in this regard.  The reality is he's a player playing his role.

Lets keep things in perspective.  Lewis was good yesterday.  Not great but certainly earned his wage as did just about every other player on the ground for us.  I'm please to have him in the team but there are clear signs he's nearing his used by date and when it comes it can come quickly.  My view is it will come faster than many here think. 

 

[Vagg 2,449]

15 hours ago, Nasher said:

When he said on 360 that he was going to bounce back in a big way, I believed him.  He mentioned being a proud player, but he's also obviously very confident and knows what he is capable of.  Last week obviously stung.

Spot on Nasher!  He was really embarrassed by the performance.  I, too, had no doubt he would back up his strong words with a strong on-field performance.  Was very pleased to see it.

Looking forward to tomorrow night's banter with Jack R...!

[nutbean 8,838]

15 minutes ago, Vogon Poetry said:

 

I also looked for the whiplash he may have given himself directing the hapless hordes many here seem to think we have on the ground .  I saw Nev Jetta and Bernie Vince directing traffic all the time.  Jones, McDonald and Viney likewise and Watts up forward.  The reality is if we granted everyone the status Lewis is granted for pointing and directing others we'd we overflowing with on field coaches and yet many here seem to think Lewis is critical in this regard.  The reality is he's a player playing his role.

 

The reality is that the players have made comment themselves on Lewis's on-field and off-field leadership where I can't recall any of the others save Jones getting a mention. Viney is new at the game ( he leads by example not necessarily by positioning or direction) , McDonald (IMO) can point and direct all he likes  - he is not the smartest footballer going around.  Watts is an incredibly smart footballer but he has only graduated in the last year to someone who can concentrate on anything bar his own game. Jones is a true leader and to a less extent so are Jetta and Bernie. 

The reality is this year Lewis has played solid football with one poor game but offers a lot more than purely ball in hand.

Edited June 19, 2017 by nutbean

[binman 44,788]

16 hours ago, TGR said:

My advice to you lot is that you don't judge players in 10 goal wins.

 

Otherwise, Josh Caddy, Luke Bruest, Mitch Duncan and to a lesser extent Jack Gunston, are worthy of back-to-back All Australian status.

 

 

 

I have studiously avoided responding to your posts but this post makes no sense whatsover

[beelzebub 23,392]

1 hour ago, nutbean said:

It doesn't matter that he WAS a 4 times premiership player or a B&F winner.

That was in the past. It's what he was going to bring to the club now and in the future that matters. 

 

tbh I don't know how you separate those elements.

Is it not surely that he HAS been a 4 time premier...B & F etc etc that IS why he is who he is and colours that which he brings ?

He's already bringing "it".  IT is starting to wash off on the others ( that need it or can use it )

The more he instructs, and the more others listen then the less he needs to instruct and they will just start doing of own accord...after they "get it "

These games of sport are often only differing of one side to another by way of a collection of nuances. The knowing of where to be ( and not )..an understanding of a difference of meters to being effective and being in the way.

The likes of Lewis are gold..I hope we can always find room for someone who has these qualities to constantly refine our own abilities. Good teams never stop learning/evolving

[nutbean 8,838]

10 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

tbh I don't know how you separate those elements.

Is it not surely that he HAS been a 4 time premier...B & F etc etc that IS why he is who he is and colours that which he brings ?

He's already bringing "it".  IT is starting to wash off on the others ( that need it or can use it )

The more he instructs, and the more others listen then the less he needs to instruct and they will just start doing of own accord...after they "get it "

These games of sport are often only differing of one side to another by way of a collection of nuances. The knowing of where to be ( and not )..an understanding of a difference of meters to being effective and being in the way.

The likes of Lewis are gold..I hope we can always find room for someone who has these qualities to constantly refine our own abilities. Good teams never stop learning/evolving

I shouldn't have really separated them - the comment was borne of being burned by our  club with past recruits who offered similar to Lewis. We have brought in players in the past who were meant to "bring experience" and that just hasn't happened -  premiership players (Lumumba, Dawes to name but two) who haven't offered enough in terms of experience. In fairness to Dawes he was apparently offering plenty at training and working with our younger KPP
 but couldn't do it on the field.

Cross was an absolute gem  - not only leading by example but also by his direction. To me Lewis is the same. He is playing good football ( without being spectacular) and his is providing experience and leadership. 

 

 

Edited June 19, 2017 by nutbean

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

3 minutes ago, nutbean said:

 McDonald (IMO) can point and direct all he likes  - he is not the smartest footballer going around. 

You can clearly gain more from outside the boundary and the club than I can.  I don't know how smart a footballer TMac is.  I know he's a very good defender, I know he's adapted to the ruck role very well in the last few weeks, He clearly has the understanding of the game to play his primary role very well and adjust quickly to new ones.  I would have thought that's indicative of a player who is smart but that's just me.

I know he is prone to execution errors but in my view it was the execution and not the decision that in most cases was wrong.  I expect that if the FD was worried about his lack of footy smarts they'd instruct him to play safe football but that doesn't seem to be the case.

But you seem to have made a "not smart" judgement of Tom so either you see more than me (quite possible) or you know something more about him.

I could mount the same argument about all the others but you get my drift.  I always wonder when peoples main positives about a player are intangibles that I for one are not well placed to judge.

[Jaded No More 68,976]

He's easily the worst performing player of the last 2 games for us.

If his name wasn't Lewis, we'd be calling for him to be dropped.

I find his lack of intensity more disappointing than his iffy ball use to be honest. He is a clever player, and his leadership is great, but gees his chasing and tackling is pretty [censored] poor!

[Sir Why You Little 37,446]

2 hours ago, nutbean said:

It doesn't matter that he WAS a 4 times premiership player or a B&F winner.

 

What are you talking about. Of course it matters. The 4 Premierships Cups and The B&F's are the EXACT reason his leadership is invaluable. A point that Vogon and TGR wish to ignore continuously for some inane reason. 

[nutbean 8,838]

2 minutes ago, Vogon Poetry said:

You can clearly gain more from outside the boundary and the club than I can.  I don't know how smart a footballer TMac is.  I know he's a very good defender, I know he's adapted to the ruck role very well in the last few weeks, He clearly has the understanding of the game to play his primary role very well and adjust quickly to new ones.  I would have thought that's indicative of a player who is smart but that's just me.

I know he is prone to execution errors but in my view it was the execution and not the decision that in most cases was wrong.  I expect that if the FD was worried about his lack of footy smarts they'd instruct him to play safe football but that doesn't seem to be the case.

But you seem to have made a "not smart" judgement of Tom so either you see more than me (quite possible) or you know something more about him.

I could mount the same argument about all the others but you get my drift.  I always wonder when peoples main positives about a player are intangibles that I for one are not well placed to judge.

I  have listened  and read interviews/stories from the players about what Lewis brings to the table as you are right - we can't rightly judge from over the fence. It is one thing to be experienced and it is another to be able to impart this experience and knowledge to others. 

But I do think I can judge a smart footballers. I judge each footballer on their worth to the team. I am a fan of Tyson but am not blind to his less than perfect disposal skills. I am fan of Frost but his penchant for running off irrespective of the circumstances can be both brave and effective but also costly. I am a fan of TMac but his decision making at times is questionable. Let me compare him to Hibberd ( albeit I am working on limited exposure) - Hibberd knows when to punch and when to try and mark. Hibberd knows when to tighten up and when to peel off. Hibberd knows when to kick long and can also pick out the short kick. Hibberd knows when to play on and when to go back and take a kick. Hibberd is a smart footballer - can you give all these attributes to TMac ? 

 

 

[PaulRB 6,435]

Who'd you prefer to climb Everest with, a mate whose never done it before, or one whose successfully done it four times..? 

 

Edited June 19, 2017 by PaulRB

[martin 727]

35 minutes ago, Vogon Poetry said:

Lewis wasn't awesome, he played his part like a lot of others.

Lewis was part of a team that was unfazed. 

I can't talk for TGR, nor do I want to, but the response to yesterdays game is a fine example of the exaggerated adulation Lewis receives for a solid performance.  At the time of writing this about 40 people have cast votes for players in yesterdays game and only about 8 have included Lewis in their best 6.  The first 3 vote givers covered 10 players and Lewis was not amongst them.  But reading the posts above I get the impression that without Lewis we might well have lost.

Reality is Lewis was solid.  I don't remember any great bits of play but I remember his first handball under little pressure missing the target by some distance and the panicked punch at the ball that gave Daniels the Dogs first goal.

I also looked for the whiplash he may have given himself directing the hapless hordes many here seem to think we have on the ground .  I saw Nev Jetta and Bernie Vince directing traffic all the time.  Jones, McDonald and Viney likewise and Watts up forward.  The reality is if we granted everyone the status Lewis is granted for pointing and directing others we'd we overflowing with on field coaches and yet many here seem to think Lewis is critical in this regard.  The reality is he's a player playing his role.

Lets keep things in perspective.  Lewis was good yesterday.  Not great but certainly earned his wage as did just about every other player on the ground for us.  I'm please to have him in the team but there are clear signs he's nearing his used by date and when it comes it can come quickly.  My view is it will come faster than many here think. 

 

Lewis has never been a spectacular player. The way he played yesterday is what he's been doing for years. Watch the tape again. As well as 31 possessions numerous tap ons, tackles and was instructional. Its so easy to say that a player of his age is nearing his use by date, der! He has given us plenty. I think some believe he needs to be BOG every week racking up 40 + possessions each time to justify the trade. Wrong. Lost nothing in the trade and paying him a fair wage. This club has been superb in its judgement in recent times - Hannan, Clayton, Hunt, Smith, Hibberd, Melksham etc. I think I'll back our FD/recruiting department over some doomsday soothsayers here. So easy to pot a 31 year old. And yer, let's hope competition is so hot for spots that Lewis and others really need to earn their spot in 2018/19. Regardless he is invaluable to a club that has been anonymous for more than a decade.

[nutbean 8,838]

7 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

What are you talking about. Of course it matters. The 4 Premierships Cups and The B&F's are the EXACT reason his leadership is invaluable. A point that Vogon and TGR wish to ignore continuously for some inane reason. 

Read the context in which i wrote it ( well I did clarify it) . It doesn't matter what past experience you have unless you can do something positive with that experience going forward. Lumumba (All Australian, high finisher in B&F's, premiership player) and Dawes did not provide what we required. 

Lewis has been good on field and ( by all reports) is providing exactly what we expected in terms of leadership.

Edited June 19, 2017 by nutbean

[nutbean 8,838]

20 minutes ago, Jaded said:

He's easily the worst performing player of the last 2 games for us.

If his name wasn't Lewis, we'd be calling for him to be dropped.

I find his lack of intensity more disappointing than his iffy ball use to be honest. He is a clever player, and his leadership is great, but gees his chasing and tackling is pretty [censored] poor!

He had a poor game against the Pies. But he was worst performing player for us yesterday ? Really ?

[Sir Why You Little 37,446]

1 minute ago, nutbean said:

Read the context in which i wrote it ( well I did clarify it) . It doesn't matter what past experience you have unless you can do something positive with that experience going forward. Lumumba (All Australian, high finisher in B&F's, premiership player) and Dawes did not provide what we required. 

Lewis ( by all reports) is providing exactly what we expected.

Yes Lewis is bringing all his experience to the fore. I think Dawes bought a lot to the club as well, it wasn't his fault his body cruelled him. Lumumba was a bust, even the great Roosy can be excused for that one, his first few games were great. 

[martin 727]

23 minutes ago, Jaded said:

He's easily the worst performing player of the last 2 games for us.

If his name wasn't Lewis, we'd be calling for him to be dropped.

I find his lack of intensity more disappointing than his iffy ball use to be honest. He is a clever player, and his leadership is great, but gees his chasing and tackling is pretty [censored] poor!

Watching a different game.

[nutbean 8,838]

4 minutes ago, martin said:

Lewis has never been a spectacular player. The way he played yesterday is what he's been doing for years. Watch the tape again. As well as 31 possessions numerous tap ons, tackles and was instructional. Its so easy to say that a player of his age is nearing his use by date, der! He has given us plenty. I think some believe he needs to be BOG every week racking up 40 + possessions each time to justify the trade. Wrong. Lost nothing in the trade and paying him a fair wage. This club has been superb in its judgement in recent times - Hannan, Clayton, Hunt, Smith, Hibberd, Melksham etc. I think I'll back our FD/recruiting department over some doomsday soothsayers here. So easy to pot a 31 year old. And yer, let's hope competition is so hot for spots that Lewis and others really need to earn their spot in 2018/19. Regardless he is invaluable to a club that has been anonymous for more than a decade.

I will digress  - our recruitment has been magnificent but part of the reason for this is we are bringing players into a culture and environment where they can succeed as opposed to the cesspit that was our club.

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

4 minutes ago, nutbean said:

I  have listened  and read interviews/stories from the players about what Lewis brings to the table as you are right - we can't rightly judge from over the fence. It is one thing to be experienced and it is another to be able to impart this experience and knowledge to others. 

But I do think I can judge a smart footballers. I judge each footballer on their worth to the team. I am a fan of Tyson but am not blind to his less than perfect disposal skills. I am fan of Frost but his penchant for running off irrespective of the circumstances can be both brave and effective but also costly. I am a fan of TMac but his decision making at times is questionable. Let me compare him to Hibberd ( albeit I am working on limited exposure) - Hibberd knows when to punch and when to try and mark. Hibberd knows when to tighten up and when to peel off. Hibberd knows when to kick long and can also pick out the short kick. Hibberd knows when to play on and when to go back and take a kick. Hibberd is a smart footballer - can you give all these attributes to TMac ?

I know Lewis had more clangers than Tom yesterday and I'm loathe to argue a players "smarts" based on the sort of things you ask because they are subjective.  I don't know if I'm misquoting you but I think you really said Tom McDonald is a dumb footballer.  I think that's a very harsh judgement.  And coaching on field is as much about understanding structures and being aware of what's happening around you not decision making under pressure. 

Jaded makes the point that Lewis chasing and tackling is disappointing.  I agree and I think it's because he's slow and that this is what ultimately will count against him and no amount of intangibles will compensate.  Anyway we can agree to disagree.  What will surprise many is the longer Lewis is best 22 the happier I will be.

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

10 minutes ago, PaulRB said:

Who'd you prefer to climb Everest with, a mate whose never done it before, or one whose successfully done it four times..? 

 

I'd prefer to do it with someone who was capable of doing it now regardless of how often they'd done it before.

[Lord Travis 10,817]

His defensive run and pressure has been disappointing. Often if the ball is turned over and opposition player closest to him gets it he just can't chase them down and doesn't appear to try to.

Offensively he has been ok, not great. He's definitely not what he was a few years ago where his kicking was elite, but he is far from our worst.

His leadership has been great. He just gets to the right spots to fill holes and directs the tea where to move. He's a level above all our other players out there and is essentially player coach. You can see Goody talks to him at the end of quarter breaks and gives him a pat on the back, Then he is straight out there directing and relaying Goodys commands.

I think he's going to continue to slow up and struggle to play out the 3 years as best 22, but it was still a good trade and he's proving valuable. No coincidence that since he has returned to the side and we've been far better organized and are pushing for top 4.

[Jaded No More 68,976]

5 minutes ago, nutbean said:

He had a poor game against the Pies. But he was worst performing player for us yesterday ? Really ?

Who do you think had a less influential game yesterday?

[nutbean 8,838]

1 minute ago, Vogon Poetry said:

I know Lewis had more clangers than Tom yesterday and I'm loathe to argue a players "smarts" based on the sort of things you ask because they are subjective.  I don't know if I'm misquoting you but I think you really said Tom McDonald is a dumb footballer.  I think that's a very harsh judgement.  And coaching on field is as much about understanding structures and being aware of what's happening around you not decision making under pressure. 

Jaded makes the point that Lewis chasing and tackling is disappointing.  I agree and I think it's because he's slow and that this is what ultimately will count against him and no amount of intangibles will compensate.  Anyway we can agree to disagree.  What will surprise many is the longer Lewis is best 22 the happier I will be.

I didn't say Tmac was a dumb footballer so you are correct  - you misquoted me. I said he is not the smartest footballer. Do I think he is was the general in the backline when he playing there ? Didn't look like it to me. And that's ok - not everyone is a general. I like Tmac  - I just think I am aware of his limitations.