12 hours ago, Wrecker45 said:

Yet i imagine despite not changing your beliefs in 50 years you probably still see yourself as being progressive?

When i went to primary school in the 80's i was too young to have formed political opinions but the boys went to the boys toilets and the girls went into the girls. You couldn't wish or identify your way into the other one.

We also breathed out carbon dioxide and it wasn't pollution back then.

We also played team sports where the score was kept and the idea was to win.

When I was in primary school in the late 50's/early 60's kids were beaten up for daring to be different and the teachers turned a blind eye... this continued on into high school as well, with the only difference being that the beatings were far worse.  Back then bullying 'didn't exist' and the teachers made a sport out of belittling kids.

Yes, we all breathed out carbon dioxide back in the day (much as we do now) and we also thought that smoking was cool and were told that there were no adverse affects or health issues associated with it.  I guess those pesky scientists were just conspiring against the tobacco companies in order for the govt to apply a hefty tax on ciggies.

I don't recall the scores being any more important back in the 50's and 60's at school as they are at my childrens' school today... the emphasis was (and still is) on getting involved, getting fit and having a good time doing that.

As nutbean so eloquently stated, "whether we consider all progress good, bad or otherwise, one thing is certain - you can't halt progress.".

In all the nostoligia my question to Earlhood seems to have been missed.

If your beliefs haven't changed in 50 years (as you wrote) are you progressive now?

6 minutes ago, Wrecker45 said:

In all the nostoligia my question to Earlhood seems to have been missed.

If your beliefs haven't changed in 50 years (as you wrote) are you progressive now?

Not directed at me, but as an apparent lefty I might as well throw mine in.

My views have definitely changed over time. I went from very right wing while in high school and at uni to pretty left now. I was a massive Howard fanboy back in the day (in fact I would still take him over some of the current offerings on both sides despite me now disagreeing with some of his positions).

Having said that, I'm 31, so it'll probably change more as I get older (although who knows which way).

I was very close to voting Liberal again this election, but Turnbull's concessions to the extreme right wing of the party turned me off. 

Cannot bring myself to vote for Shorten, he is a lightweight of the highest order.

I honestly struggle with politics these days, I don't feel either major party represents me in any meaningful way and voting a minor party just seems to clog up the works.

I'm sick of politics.

4 minutes ago, Choke said:

Not directed at me, but as an apparent lefty I might as well throw mine in.

My views have definitely changed over time. I went from very right wing while in high school and at uni to pretty left now. I was a massive Howard fanboy back in the day (in fact I would still take him over some of the current offerings on both sides despite me now disagreeing with some of his positions).

Having said that, I'm 31, so it'll probably change more as I get older (although who knows which way).

I was very close to voting Liberal again this election, but Turnbull's concessions to the extreme right wing of the party turned me off. 

Cannot bring myself to vote for Shorten, he is a lightweight of the highest order.

I honestly struggle with politics these days, I don't feel either major party represents me in any meaningful way and voting a minor party just seems to clog up the works.

I'm sick of politics.

Choke - regardless if I agree with what you write, or not, I appreciate it. You're not beholden to any one line of thinking and this is rare for lefties. I like that.

2 minutes ago, Wrecker45 said:

Choke - regardless if I agree with what you write, or not, I appreciate it. You're not beholden to any one line of thinking and this is rare for lefties. I like that.

lol thanks mate. FWIW I think you're probably the only righty around here I could have a beer with without coming to blows.

I still think your quote from last month re Trump "He is both better and worse than I expected" is the best statement anyone's made on Trump around here.

30 minutes ago, Wrecker45 said:

In all the nostoligia my question to Earlhood seems to have been missed.

If your beliefs haven't changed in 50 years (as you wrote) are you progressive now?

That read more as a rhetorical question, which is probably why it got no answer. 

1 hour ago, Choke said:

you're probably the only righty around here I could have a beer with without coming to blows.

Stay left.  You fit in well.

2 hours ago, Choke said:

Not directed at me, but as an apparent lefty I might as well throw mine in.

My views have definitely changed over time. I went from very right wing while in high school and at uni to pretty left now. I was a massive Howard fanboy back in the day (in fact I would still take him over some of the current offerings on both sides despite me now disagreeing with some of his positions).

Having said that, I'm 31, so it'll probably change more as I get older (although who knows which way).

I was very close to voting Liberal again this election, but Turnbull's concessions to the extreme right wing of the party turned me off. 

Cannot bring myself to vote for Shorten, he is a lightweight of the highest order.

I honestly struggle with politics these days, I don't feel either major party represents me in any meaningful way and voting a minor party just seems to clog up the works.

I'm sick of politics.

I mirror this with the exception of being 25 years older, my left leaning started earlier. 

My first foray away from the libs was Howard. Didn't like his politics but I firmly believe that as a leader he would be up there with the best ( all save his last year where he outstayed his welcome). I was a fan of Costello and would have probably voted Liberal had he got the top gig.

Couldn't vote for Turnbull as it was no secret he absolutely compromised himself to the hard right of his party to get the top gig.

And....

Cannot bring myself to vote for Shorten, he is a lightweight of the highest order.

I honestly struggle with politics these days, I don't feel either major party represents me in any meaningful way and voting a minor party just seems to clog up the works.

I'm sick of politics.(acknowledgment to Choke for the last paragraph)  

6 hours ago, hardtack said:

Yes, we all breathed out carbon dioxide back in the day (much as we do now) and we also thought that smoking was cool and were told that there were no adverse affects or health issues associated with it.  I guess those pesky scientists were just conspiring against the tobacco companies in order for the govt to apply a hefty tax on ciggies.

I don't recall the scores being any more important back in the 50's and 60's at school as they are at my childrens' school today... the emphasis was (and still is) on getting involved, getting fit and having a good time doing that.

Is that why we called them "cancer sticks" in the 50/60's .......... i think we did know then

In those days primary schools and secondary schools all had school teams and competed with other schools.....now only private schools

2 hours ago, nutbean said:

I honestly struggle with politics these days, I don't feel either major party represents me in any meaningful way and voting a minor party just seems to clog up the works.

I'm sick of politics.(acknowledgment to Choke for the last paragraph)  

+100

13 hours ago, nutbean said:

 

I sometimes do yearn for what I perceived as simpler times. Whether we consider all progress good, bad or otherwise, one thing is certain - you can't halt progress.

Yes Nut you are probably right that you can't halt progress, however you define progress I suppose. But gee there is no shortage of forces today trying their best to halt technological and social change!

Social progress - same sex marriage, euthanasia, that is my right to choose when I die, subject to medical checks of course, the right to choose to terminate a pregnancy if the woman chooses, all these progressive ideas are fought tooth and nail by certain religious and political groups. 

Then technological progress, well yes in theory progress is inevitable unless it upsets certain vested interests. Progress in the energy market points to solar and wind but our federal government is talking coal! Forget climate change issues, new so called high tech ultra supercalafragilistic coal fired generation plants are more expensive to build than equivalently sized renewable wind or solar plants. Vested interests will work very hard to halt progress.

then there is on line shopping but don't get Gerry Harvey going on that advance. 

Edited February 23, 20178 yr by Earl Hood

7 hours ago, Wrecker45 said:

In all the nostoligia my question to Earlhood seems to have been missed.

If your beliefs haven't changed in 50 years (as you wrote) are you progressive now?

Wrecker

Depends how you define progressive. The drift of my original post was that my beliefs hadn't changed since my early 20's which is 40 years ago not 50, although I can see how you made that inference, I was actually in my teens when Whitlam gained power, my fail there. That said my core values haven't changed, a fair go for all, justice, less inequality is better than more, look after the poor, rather than the interests of the rich. And look after the environment and protect what is left from the depredations of those that would destroy it for personal profit.

But the the political middle ground has moved much further to the right after  Reagon and Thatcher took power and we have kept going that way since, entrenching the Neo-classical economic theories of small government, minimal regulation, low taxes, flexible wage rates, hours of work and no organized labour unions. 

I am old school believer in a mixed economy of small and large private companies working in with government run organisations to deliver basic services and competition. We once created the CBA as a solution to keep private banks honest, now it is part of the problem. Once there was Telecom, has anyone done a cost benefit analysis on its privatisation? The sale proceeds went into the Future Fund and tax cuts to the rich, the costs were the loss of a billion $ a year of dividends to the Feds and the likelihood that KRudd's High performance NBN would have been rolled out 5 years ago to 90% of consumers across metropolitan Australia instead of the disfunctional NBN Corporation's high cost second rate copper to the node non solution to everyone. 

 

 

This transcends political leanings... it's just [censored] funny, plain and simple.
The accompanying blurb by the creator: "Trump's press conference is easier to take if you slow it down a bit. Then it's like watching an old drunk ranting at you in a bar at 3:00am—the only circumstance where any of this would seem normal. You're welcome."

 

Edited February 23, 20178 yr by hardtack

14 hours ago, Earl Hood said:

Yes Nut you are probably right that you can't halt progress, however you define progress I suppose. But gee there is no shortage of forces today trying their best to halt technological and social change!

Social progress - same sex marriage, euthanasia, that is my right to choose when I die, subject to medical checks of course, the right to choose to terminate a pregnancy if the woman chooses, all these progressive ideas are fought tooth and nail by certain religious and political groups. 

Then technological progress, well yes in theory progress is inevitable unless it upsets certain vested interests. Progress in the energy market points to solar and wind but our federal government is talking coal! Forget climate change issues, new so called high tech ultra supercalafragilistic coal fired generation plants are more expensive to build than equivalently sized renewable wind or solar plants. Vested interests will work very hard to halt progress.

then there is on line shopping but don't get Gerry Harvey going on that advance. 

I hate to bring up the 80's again (I don't really) but as a kid I had a solar power radio and used to see on the news universities competing in solar power car races. Solar power was the future. Back then computers the size of a house couldn't do what my phone can now. Technology has come on exponentially but solar seems to have been left behind. I don't think solar power as we know it now is the answer or will ever be the answer.

Don't even get me started on windmills.

 

13 hours ago, Earl Hood said:

Wrecker

Depends how you define progressive. The drift of my original post was that my beliefs hadn't changed since my early 20's which is 40 years ago not 50, although I can see how you made that inference, I was actually in my teens when Whitlam gained power, my fail there. That said my core values haven't changed, a fair go for all, justice, less inequality is better than more, look after the poor, rather than the interests of the rich. And look after the environment and protect what is left from the depredations of those that would destroy it for personal profit.

But the the political middle ground has moved much further to the right after  Reagon and Thatcher took power and we have kept going that way since, entrenching the Neo-classical economic theories of small government, minimal regulation, low taxes, flexible wage rates, hours of work and no organized labour unions. 

I am old school believer in a mixed economy of small and large private companies working in with government run organisations to deliver basic services and competition. We once created the CBA as a solution to keep private banks honest, now it is part of the problem. Once there was Telecom, has anyone done a cost benefit analysis on its privatisation? The sale proceeds went into the Future Fund and tax cuts to the rich, the costs were the loss of a billion $ a year of dividends to the Feds and the likelihood that KRudd's High performance NBN would have been rolled out 5 years ago to 90% of consumers across metropolitan Australia instead of the disfunctional NBN Corporation's high cost second rate copper to the node non solution to everyone. 

 

 

Is that like Howard's core promises? 

Apologies to Bowie!

 

 

3 hours ago, hardtack said:

This transcends political leanings... it's just [censored] funny, plain and simple.
The accompanying blurb by the creator: "Trump's press conference is easier to take if you slow it down a bit. Then it's like watching an old drunk ranting at you in a bar at 3:00am—the only circumstance where any of this would seem normal. You're welcome."

 

I was just about to post this!!!

Gold...

I love the hypocrisy of leftist feminists.

They have seizures over a Tony Abbott wink, yet are silent over a Muslim leader saying it's acceptable to beat your wife.

The left are the most hypocritical scumbags on the planet.

21 minutes ago, ProDee said:

I love the hypocrisy of leftist feminists.

They have seizures over a Tony Abbott wink, yet are silent over a Muslim leader saying it's acceptable to beat your wife.

The left are the most hypocritical scumbags on the planet.

Che? How did the Abottoir enter the Trump thread? You just keep w.inking, Pro, the world is full of w.inkers like you.

Oh, the poor put upon Abbottoir, all those nasty feminists making him accountable for being a far right, ultra conservative woman hating piglet. How horrid of them.

8 hours ago, dieter said:

Che? How did the Abottoir enter the Trump thread? You just keep w.inking, Pro, the world is full of w.inkers like you.

Oh, the poor put upon Abbottoir, all those nasty feminists making him accountable for being a far right, ultra conservative woman hating piglet. How horrid of them.

I don't give a stuff about Abbott.  He had his chance and blew it on issues where he should have made a stance.

But I love the hypocrusy of leftist feminists.  The type who attack Trump, here and overseas, yet they utter not a word about honour killings or wife beatings within Islam.  And refuse to denounce Muslim leaders who spew their garbage in our communities.

Lefties, like you, keep your gobs shut too.

1 hour ago, ProDee said:

I don't give a stuff about Abbott.  He had his chance and blew it on issues where he should have made a stance.

But I love the hypocrusy of leftist feminists.  The type who attack Trump, here and overseas, yet they utter not a word about honour killings or wife beatings within Islam.  And refuse to denounce Muslim leaders who spew their garbage in our communities.

Lefties, like you, keep your gobs shut too.

What, do we have to give a comprehensive catalog of the ills of the world - specifically the ills caused by Muslims - to qualify to be a critic of a man who is an obvious bigot, uneducated, sexist, xenophobic imbecile? 

You sound like the Danbys and Austentatious fringe lunatics of the world, who, for example, won't allow you to criticize the actions of Israel until you also criticize the actions of every other crackpot nation state. An analogy would be a bank robber who is caught red handed telling the cops to go away and catch all the other bank robbers because to pick on him is discriminatory.

Hang on a sec.

Let me see if I have this right.

Some Imam said some really [censored] things, and no leftie on here posted about it. Outrage!

So despite being constantly accused of trying to censor people with our oppressive political correctness, when we DON'T do it, we're accused of hypocrisy?

Hadn't even heard about the comments until now. From what's posted above, yeah they are terrible and should be condemned.

Plus, lets not assume there's some sort of equivalency between the most powerful man in the world and some Muslim leader ProDee couldn't even be bothered to name. What Trump says has infinitely more impact than this guy, whoever he is.

Or, let's flip it around. Why do right wingers need to jump down the throat of any minor Muslim leader when they say something abhorrent, but not when Trump makes patently false and dangerous statements? By your logic ProDee, any time you fail to condemn anything Trump says that doesn't align with your world view it makes you a hypocrite. It's ridiculous logic.

23 hours ago, hardtack said:

This transcends political leanings... it's just [censored] funny, plain and simple.
The accompanying blurb by the creator: "Trump's press conference is easier to take if you slow it down a bit. Then it's like watching an old drunk ranting at you in a bar at 3:00am—the only circumstance where any of this would seem normal. You're welcome."

 

Thanks HT, I hadn't seen that before.

I don't find it funny in the slightest though. Maybe if he was a minor politician it'd be amusing, but given his station it's just worrying.

The Trump administration has made the unprecedented move of blocking numerous news outlets from attending the press briefings ... including the BBC,  LA Times,  NY Times,  CNN,  Politico,  Buzzfeed & The Guardian.  Other news outlets including Time Magazine & the Associated Press have decided to boycott the press briefings in support.

All too predictable though as Trump is about as thin-skinned as thin-skinned can get.  His Republican support will lessen as a result and in turn, his ability to govern properly will be diminished.  He should just suck it up as previous Presidents have but not this bloke. 

Meanwhile, his right-wing support will be thinking up some elaborate way of explaining this action ... the move possibly goes against the first amendment too. 

White House blocks news organizations from press briefing

 

 

And the Trump administration/Russian connection just won't be going away either - the latest from The Washington Post ...

Trump administration sought to enlist intelligence officials, key lawmakers to counter Russia stories

Quote

The calls were orchestrated by the White House after unsuccessful attempts by the administration to get senior FBI officials to speak with news organizations and dispute the accuracy of stories on the alleged contacts with Russia.

Quote

The Trump administration has enlisted senior members of the intelligence community and Congress in efforts to counter news stories about Trump associates’ ties to Russia, a politically charged issue that has been under investigation by the FBI as well as lawmakers now defending the White House.