7 minutes ago, Wrecker45 said:

McCain has it wrong and is bitter. Shutting down the press is what Dictators do.

Denouncing the press is clearly inline with freedom of speech. 

I've never called any of Trump's tweets clever. However, tweeting to a large audience, in general, as a tactic when he is misrepresented so often is clever.

 

 

Calling the media the 'enemy of the American people' is not clever.

It's ok to disagree with something your man says. I did it all the time on Hillary's campaign trail. Just because you support the man doesn't mean you have to agree with everything he says and does.

I'm assuming that's what's going on here, since I really struggle to see how your stated defence of this tweet makes any sense at all.

Denouncing one tweet won't make you any less of a conservative.

He CAN say what he wants. It doesn't mean that he should, or that denouncing the free press as the enemy of the people is at all an appropriate thing for a president to say. This is not a freedom of speech issue - at all. This is the leader of the free world demonising one of the most important aspects of democracy and Western civilisation. Tweet about bias all you want, but the concept of the fourth estate is solid.

McCain may be old and bitter, but on this he is correct. And he's worth listening to as his voice still carries weight within the Republican party.

You're right, shutting down the press is what dictators do. Before they do that though, they have to have a reason. Announcing to the world that it is the enemy of the people seems like a good first step if one wanted to do that.

29 minutes ago, Choke said:

Calling the media the 'enemy of the American people' is not clever.

 

choke, surely that is a matter for the people of america to decide. there is more than a few who would agree that some (many) in the media over focus on the sensational, truth-twisting and trivial. why, i've even heard this as a common cry of the left commentariat......gasp, shock, horror........wink,  wink, say no more

i'm not defending trump, but i'm sure not in hell defending the press/media who have it coming to them

Edited February 20, 20178 yr by daisycutter

Just now, daisycutter said:

choke, surely that is a matter for the people of america to decide. there is more than a few who would agree that some (many) in the media over focus on the sensational, truth-twisting and trivial. why, i've even heard this as a common cry of the left commentariat......gasp, shock, horror........wink,  wink, say no more

And that would be equally worthy of condemnation. If Hillary or Obama said this, my post would be exactly the same with the names changed.

Also, if every issue is a matter of the people of america, then what are we doing in this thread?

 

So, righty responses so far:

1 - it's clever and progressive (lol)
2 - it's a freedom of speech issue (nope)
2 - it's a matter for the american people (also lol, what's the point in debating at all?)

 

Any more acrobats out there?

18 minutes ago, Choke said:

Also, if every issue is a matter of the people of america, then what are we doing in this thread?

2 - it's a matter for the american people (also lol, what's the point in debating at all?)

 

you catch on quick, choke

obviously trump was talking about the press (at the moment wrt to him) in america and wrt to the american people when he said  the media was the 'enemy of the American people'. if the american people agree with him then it becomes truth/acceptable. if not then it's untrue/unacceptable. you also need to understand the context in the use of "enemy". he's not suggesting the media are going to launch a first strike nuclear attack - LOL

trump is not going to use diplomatic, political correct language. get used to it. he's not talking to you. he's talking to his supporters (at least those still left)

51 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

you catch on quick, choke

obviously trump was talking about the press (at the moment wrt to him) in america and wrt to the american people when he said  the media was the 'enemy of the American people'. if the american people agree with him then it becomes truth/acceptable. if not then it's untrue/unacceptable. you also need to understand the context in the use of "enemy". he's not suggesting the media are going to launch a first strike nuclear attack - LOL

trump is not going to use diplomatic, political correct language. get used to it. he's not talking to you. he's talking to his supporters (at least those still left)

His supporters - ah, those in the know what happened in Sweden perhaps. must be millions of those. The guy is seriously demented. And as true and sincere as the intricate patterns his hair must get twisted into before every appearance. Oi Weh is all I can say.

6 minutes ago, dieter said:

His supporters - ah, those in the know what happened in Sweden perhaps. must be millions of those. The guy is seriously demented. And as true and sincere as the intricate patterns his hair must get twisted into before every appearance. Oi Weh is all I can say.

I've not heard the speech but men and women are being raped in Sweden by Muslims and the feminista govt thinks these crimes should be repressed,as in, not disclosed.

These actions by idiot policy will lead to vigilante actions ,then  chaos.

understand the reality to preserve peace.

1 hour ago, Choke said:

And that would be equally worthy of condemnation. If Hillary or Obama said this, my post would be exactly the same with the names changed.

Also, if every issue is a matter of the people of america, then what are we doing in this thread?

 

So, righty responses so far:

1 - it's clever and progressive (lol)
2 - it's a freedom of speech issue (nope)
2 - it's a matter for the american people (also lol, what's the point in debating at all?)

 

Any more acrobats out there?

Choke I can only imagine you are attributing both 1 and 2 above to me. They were both my points about tweeting in general from Trump. I have not made any comments in regards to a specific quote. Nor am I sure what quote you are referring to.

i'm no acrobat. I'll call a spade a spade no matter the side. Perhaps I am missing something?

1 hour ago, dieter said:

His supporters - ah, those in the know what happened in Sweden perhaps. must be millions of those. The guy is seriously demented. And as true and sincere as the intricate patterns his hair must get twisted into before every appearance. Oi Weh is all I can say.

As dc said, his target audience are his own supporters. 

Trump is literally preaching to the converted ... and again, it works and it's working.  He doesn't have to win over the left because in his eyes, they don't really matter.  The left aren't going to buy into his policies so why bother?

It's very different to what we've seen previously where most new leaders do try and bring all the people together ... I reckon Trump knows that that is a waste of time & effort so he'd rather strengthen his own base. 

Watching his rally in Florida made me think that more people might jump on board with him (a percentage of those who don't lean strongly to the left but aren't exactly far-right either)

It's not normal politics - neither side is listening to the outrage coming from the other side ... the divide is quite stark and it will probably remain that way for quite some time.

 

 

.

 

Edited February 20, 20178 yr by Macca

13 hours ago, Biffen said:

I've not heard the speech but men and women are being raped in Sweden by Muslims and the feminista govt thinks these crimes should be repressed,as in, not disclosed.

These actions by idiot policy will lead to vigilante actions ,then  chaos.

understand the reality to preserve peace.

Ah, Biff, you like Bernard Lewis, know all about the rapine proclivities of all those buggggery inclined Muslims.  We need the two of you to save us. Do you think it's brought on by the propensity of muslim  women to wear hijabs and burqas? You know, those muslim women have a bloody lot to answer for. 

But, let's ban the hijab, the burqa, the mosque, the pork, the imanisation of us poor ozzies, the stealth like imposition of the DREADED sharia law, a law which would force us to exhume Lambie's dead body, and god forbid all the other inevitably ensuing catastrophes to our beautifully sane and just society.For a start all the chicks would have to stop wearing tight-fitting boob and bum exposing underwear in public, and that would be a huge threat to all our freedoms.

 I'd almost call our society perfecto if it wan't for all those motley muslims. They're the ones that have brought on the Ice, the unemployment, the welfare state because they're all welfare  'bludgeons' (sic) as well.

You and Lambie and Pauline have got it  right because the three of you are such perceptive modulators of the ills of our society and where the fluck would we be without any of the three of you???

Let me guess, my god, we'd be inundated by SHARIA LAW. 

What a miracle, 2% of the plopulation (sic) imposing SHARIA LAW. Unbelieveit!

And you watch, in no time that 2 % will be 80% because, like the Catholics, they don't know how to use frangipanis or any other form of birth control, and before you know it, all of us will be wearing the hijabs, not administering them into our veins.

Edited February 20, 20178 yr by dieter

2 hours ago, Biffen said:

I've not heard the speech but men and women are being raped in Sweden by Muslims and the feminista govt thinks these crimes should be repressed,as in, not disclosed.

These actions by idiot policy will lead to vigilante actions ,then  chaos.

understand the reality to preserve peace.

Biff do you have any real data on your accusation? Or are you playing the Trump card? I will state now it is fake news.

You are telling me rapes have happened in Sweden over and above the norm due to refugees but there is a left wing cover up that nothing is happening.  I think not. 

It seems to me most people in Sweden are asking WTF is he talking about but you know more, even though you are currently up river in Indochina chasing Colonel Kurtz! 

2 minutes ago, Earl Hood said:

Biff do you have any real data on your accusation? Or are you playing the Trump card? I will state now it is fake news.

You are telling me rapes have happened in Sweden over and above the norm due to refugees but there is a left wing cover up that nothing is happening.  I think not. 

It seems to me most people in Sweden are asking WTF is he talking about but you know more, even though you are currently up river in Indochina chasing Colonel Kurtz! 

With a tub of butter because he really believes Kurtz was Marlon Brando.

17 minutes ago, Earl Hood said:

Biff do you have any real data on your accusation? Or are you playing the Trump card? I will state now it is fake news.

You are telling me rapes have happened in Sweden over and above the norm due to refugees but there is a left wing cover up that nothing is happening.  I think not. 

It seems to me most people in Sweden are asking WTF is he talking about but you know more, even though you are currently up river in Indochina chasing Colonel Kurtz! 

 HI there  Earl Hood .There are some reports of child immigrants being traded through Sweden because there is no control, identity,process,housing or detailed information.I've read other media reports of rapes on the up in Malmo as well so it may be somewhat true.I'm no expert on the matter but I have family in Sweden who tell me a similar story and say the police are losing control .

Gee we all like having a go at Donald, including me but did anyone see Miranda Devine's defence of tobacco and cigarette smoking on Channel 9's Today programme with Karl Stephanovic on the weekend and again this morning? 

 Apparently smoking is good because it takes out people earlier than normal through cancer or respitory failure or organ failure or lung disease and horrendous pain before death and that apparently frees up resources for other health outcomes. So it is a win, win in economics terms but let's not look at human costs.

Talk about big picture "Technocrats out of control",  even though Miranda isn't one of course. She is just a second rate hack journo working for News Corp. but willing to sacrifice lives on the alter of free choice to smoke your self to death. 

And I should add Miranda works for El Diablo, Beelzebub the Devil in carnate but I wouldn't want to denigrate her more than she deserves. 

Edited February 20, 20178 yr by Earl Hood

37 minutes ago, Earl Hood said:

Gee we all like having a go at Donald, including me but did anyone see Miranda Devine's defence of tobacco and cigarette smoking on Channel 9's Today programme with Karl Stephanovic on the weekend and again this morning? 

 Apparently smoking is good because it takes out people earlier than normal through cancer or respitory failure or organ failure or lung disease and horrendous pain before death and that apparently frees up resources for other health outcomes. So it is a win, win in economics terms but let's not look at human costs.

Talk about big picture "Technocrats out of control",  even though Miranda isn't one of course. She is just a second rate hack journo working for News Corp. but willing to sacrifice lives on the alter of free choice to smoke your self to death. 

And I should add Miranda works for El Diablo, Beelzebub the Devil in carnate but I wouldn't want to denigrate her more than she deserves. 

sounds pretty logical to me, earl. specially as the anti-smoking lobby have always claimed what a big economic burden smokers are to the economy.

there again non-smokers never die of "cancer or respiritory failure or organ failure or lung disease and horrendous pain before death" do they?

surely you must have better things to do than watch karl stephanovic's today program. very odd past-time

13 hours ago, daisycutter said:

sounds pretty logical to me, earl. specially as the anti-smoking lobby have always claimed what a big economic burden smokers are to the economy.

there again non-smokers never die of "cancer or respiritory failure or organ failure or lung disease and horrendous pain before death" do they?

surely you must have better things to do than watch karl stephanovic's today program. very odd past-time

DC are you one of those big picture technocrats?  Obviously we are all going to die at some stage but my point is that quality of life and time on the planet is important to most people and that is not helped by avoidable poisons like tobacco. Her dodgy economic theory does not justify tobacco use and governments should do their best to discourage tobacco use amongst their constituents, short of making it illegal.

P.S. I picked up the interview while I was perusing The Guardian on line I think.  

13 minutes ago, Earl Hood said:

DC are you one of those big picture technocrats?  Obviously we are all going to die at some stage but my point is that quality of life and time on the planet is important to most people and that is not helped by avoidable poisons like tobacco. Her dodgy economic theory does not justify tobacco use and governments should do their best to discourage tobacco use amongst their constituents, short of making it illegal.

P.S. I picked up the interview while I was perusing The Guardian on line I think.  

why all this faux squeamishness, earl. i thought you might be a 21st century realpolitik man but you prefer to wallow in the perpetually aggrieved hipster subculture.....lol

If we tax smokers, we should tax fat people, tax McDonalds,tax KFC.They all put a weight on the system.

The other way would be to allow all this and remove tax, let people die younger, save on healthcare.

30 bucks a packet is a joke, booze is overpriced also.Cheap,nasty food is as bad or worse for you.

 

1 hour ago, C.Smoker Champion said:

 

30 bucks a packet is a joke, booze is overpriced also.Cheap,nasty food is as bad or worse for you.

 

I would be most interested to see the extensive research supporting that claim. I am not defending the overconsumption of junk food but your statement is a tad overreach ?

1 hour ago, C.Smoker Champion said:

If we tax smokers, we should tax fat people, tax McDonalds,tax KFC.They all put a weight on the system.

The other way would be to allow all this and remove tax, let people die younger, save on healthcare.

30 bucks a packet is a joke, booze is overpriced also.Cheap,nasty food is as bad or worse for you.

 

Having lost both parents to smoking, I consider $30 to be too cheap! The thing that I cannot understand is that armed with all of the knowledge that is now available regarding the dangers of smoking, why would anyone even consider taking it up... a seriously dumb decision. My parents and their generation could at least plead ignorance due to that knowledge not being readily available.

Booze is probably priced right, but when you consider the amount of damage it can do directly and indirectly, maybe it is priced too low as well.  There is talk of a tax on junk food and soft drinks, and I have no issue with that either.

All of these things, smoking related cancers, obesity and alchoholism and hospitalisation of people indirectly affected by the consumption of alchohol (car crash victims, violence victims etc), place a lot of pressure on the public health system.  The taxes are there to reduce consumption and ease the burden... unless of course you have any better suggestions as to how it can be effectively dealt with.

Edited February 21, 20178 yr by hardtack

8 hours ago, daisycutter said:

why all this faux squeamishness, earl. i thought you might be a 21st century realpolitik man but you prefer to wallow in the perpetually aggrieved hipster subculture.....lol

You are probably right DC these days I probably am lurking in some far left wing subculture. I don't think my beliefs and values have changed since I was in my 20's, back then I was just left of centre and well in the mainstream when Whitlam was in charge for that brief period in the 70's.

Gee I wonder now if Rex Conner had prevailed we might have full control over our energy resources and have control over pricing but no he was an idiot that threatened our international multinational partnerships at the time with local ownership and control of a nation wide LNG supply network. 

And in the same way that Malcolm Fraser was right of centre in the 70's but 35 years later found his values were so far to the left that the LNP disowned him, I find myself thinking like I am some sort of radical. The fact is for whatever reason the Anglophile West, the US, Australia, the U.K. has moved to the right and is now throwing up the likes of Trump and given new life to One Nation and their xenophobia, it was Asians in the 90's now it is Islamists. I blame Rupert and the influence of Multinationals and their think tanks for much of this move to the more extreme right and their beliefs in small ineffectual democratic government, no red tape, flexible working arrangements for employees, including their wages and hours of work and no unions of course. 

I am appalled at our treatment of refugees but that is a fruitless argument and then there is our failure to deal with climate change. I mean we now have federal ministers talking about taxpayers funding new coal fired power generation plants because the private sector won't touch them. Oh yes they are the new Ultra Supercalafragalistic coal fired generation technology so admired by Malcolm Trunbull and Barnaby but they are still high emission plants compared to every other green option. The intermediate option for base load power is gas fired power generation but guess what the gas price is too high to be economical for the privately owned generators to be bothered firing up even though we have the world's largest reserves of gas because we are exporting every cubic metre of it off shore at a world parity price to China and Japan.

We have lost the plot and I am as mad as hell and I am not going to put up with it anymore! 

Edited February 21, 20178 yr by Earl Hood

1 hour ago, Earl Hood said:

You are probably right DC these days I probably am lurking in some far left wing subculture. I don't think my beliefs and values have changed since I was in my 20's, back then I was just left of centre and well in the mainstream when Whitlam was in charge for that brief period in the 70's.

Gee I wonder now if Rex Conner had prevailed we might have full control over our energy resources and have control over pricing but no he was an idiot that threatened our international multinational partnerships at the time with local ownership and control of a nation wide LNG supply network. 

And in the same way that Malcolm Fraser was right of centre in the 70's but 35 years later found his values were so far to the left that the LNP disowned him, I find myself thinking like I am some sort of radical. The fact is for whatever reason the Anglophile West, the US, Australia, the U.K. has moved to the right and is now throwing up the likes of Trump and given new life to One Nation and their xenophobia, it was Asians in the 90's now it is Islamists. I blame Rupert and the influence of Multinationals and their think tanks for much of this move to the more extreme right and their beliefs in small ineffectual democratic government, no red tape, flexible working arrangements for employees, including their wages and hours of work and no unions of course. 

I am appalled at our treatment of refugees but that is a fruitless argument and then there is our failure to deal with climate change. I mean we now have federal ministers talking about taxpayers funding new coal fired power generation plants because the private sector won't touch them. Oh yes they are the new Ultra Supercalafragalistic coal fired generation technology so admired by Malcolm Trunbull and Barnaby but they are still high emission plants compared to every other green option. The intermediate option for base load power is gas fired power generation but guess what the gas price is too high to be economical for the privately owned generators to be bothered firing up even though we have the world's largest reserves of gas because we are exporting every cubic metre of it off shore at a world parity price to China and Japan.

We have lost the plot and I am as mad as hell and I am not going to put up with it anymore! 

Alleluia Bro, the f...ing voice of reason for a change. I agree with you 100%.

The world has succumbed to the lunatics, the greedy bulldusters who want it all and want it now.

In the meantime, there is the motley array of apologists for our descent down the cliff which the dogs of deceit have piped while we dutifully followed, the Ackermans, the Sheridans, the Bolts, the Abbottoirs, the Hansons, the Bernardis, the Brands, yep, the far right lunatics.

The reason we are in this state is because Australia has followed this stupid and deceitful notion - like the conga line of Little Johny suckholes  who wanted to play deputy to the USA  - that the USA is the upholder of truth freedom and justice. The USA is the biggest terrorist organization in the history of the planet.   Just look into the history of their multitudinous wars in the past 2 centuries. 

I give up.

All I know for sure, is that I've had a lifetime - 67 years -  of being bulldusted to, and I've had enough. 

Edited February 21, 20178 yr by dieter

52 minutes ago, Earl Hood said:

........ but guess what the gas price is too high to be economical for the privately owned generators to be bothered firing up even though we have the world's largest reserves of gas because we are exporting every cubic metre of it off shore at a world parity price to China and Japan.

actually old boy i think it is even worse than that. It's my understanding the chinese and japanese get a very big chunk of our gas at a piddling price way below world parity due to some smart contracts they stitched us up on years ago. To make matters worse we pay domestically quite often (not always) at the world spot price for gas which is much higher than world parity price because we (domestically) are at the bottom of the ladder when it comes to selling our gas. The reasons for these facts are the fault of both labor and liberal. Unfortunately i can't, try as i might, blame jack watts. Globalisation at its finest 

9 hours ago, daisycutter said:

actually old boy i think it is even worse than that. It's my understanding the chinese and japanese get a very big chunk of our gas at a piddling price way below world parity due to some smart contracts they stitched us up on years ago. To make matters worse we pay domestically quite often (not always) at the world spot price for gas which is much higher than world parity price because we (domestically) are at the bottom of the ladder when it comes to selling our gas. The reasons for these facts are the fault of both labor and liberal. Unfortunately i can't, try as i might, blame jack watts. Globalisation at its finest 

If you can't blame Jack Watts then you are not trying hard enough.

On Tuesday, February 21, 2017 at 9:48 PM, Earl Hood said:

You are probably right DC these days I probably am lurking in some far left wing subculture. I don't think my beliefs and values have changed since I was in my 20's, back then I was just left of centre and well in the mainstream when Whitlam was in charge for that brief period in the 70's.

Yet i imagine despite not changing your beliefs in 50 years you probably still see yourself as being progressive?

When i went to primary school in the 80's i was too young to have formed political opinions but the boys went to the boys toilets and the girls went into the girls. You couldn't wish or identify your way into the other one.

We also breathed out carbon dioxide and it wasn't pollution back then.

We also played team sports where the score was kept and the idea was to win.

9 hours ago, Wrecker45 said:

Yet i imagine despite not changing your beliefs in 50 years you probably still see yourself as being progressive?

When i went to primary school in the 80's i was too young to have formed political opinions but the boys went to the boys toilets and the girls went into the girls. You couldn't wish or identify your way into the other one.

We also breathed out carbon dioxide and it wasn't pollution back then.

We also played team sports where the score was kept and the idea was to win.

Yearning for the days of yore ?

In the 80's AIDS was a death sentence, car fatalities were higher and compared to car registration was significantly higher and we weren't serious enough about smoking and all its associated health problems.

When I was in early high school ( eek..late 60's) a boy in our class who was gay hanged himself - the school at the time really failed to offer anything and pretty much chose to ignore but we knew he struggled with his sexuality and identity ( or at the time - "being a full on sissy") and  I would like to say that we  his classmates were really understanding but I would be lying. We talked about this at our 40th reunion and discussed what our school does now to help these crisis of identity and sexuality. Whilst not perfect there are systems in place.

I sometimes do yearn for what I perceived as simpler times. Whether we consider all progress good, bad or otherwise, one thing is certain - you can't halt progress.

Edited February 22, 20178 yr by nutbean