40 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Absolutely.  Not denying or arguing that they haven't traded very well over the last 6-7 years.  I was merely pointing out that they haven't been given a 'leg up' through free agency as another poster suggested.

Fair enough. Not free agency but smart trading. Its difficult to get those players to come in unless your successful though.

no 'leg up' - just smart trading and on field success.

4 hours ago, Left Foot Snap said:

I really don't have a good feeling about the salary caps at those 2 (and other) clubs. I smell a rat and have a feeling in my bones that it will be a story in the future. I think, and it is only my thoughts, that they have found a loophole in the system. I don't buy that so many senior players have taken pay cuts at Hawthorn for example. Its a nice story but I think its more likely that they have been switched to alternate payment methods. You wouldn't do that with a new recruit, only those you know and trust ie: players that have been in the club for a while.

It reminds me of years ago when a Richmond player took the club to task after his promised 'no loose investments" didn't return what they where meant to and they where used as part of the agreement to him to sign.

And if you had to name two Clubs that were up themselves, it would be these two. Full of Private School [censored]s!!!

2 hours ago, ProDee said:

Prior to this draft, other than Frawley, who have Hawthorn secured under free agency ?

You have to look at free agency not in isolation but as an adjunct to the destination club concept.

At the end of 2014 the Hawks lacked a key defender and were able to pick up a 26 year old former All Australian Key Defender for free under free agency. They now realise they lack a forward/ruck option and look set to claim the best free agent in that position again for free in the 26 year old Ty Vickery.

They now realise their midfield is weak so using destination club status they are favourites to recruit Jaeger O'Meara and Tom Mitchell. The same mechanism they have used to recruit for 'unders' the likes of Gibson and Gunston.

Essentially if they are smart their 'bottoming out' will see them at the bottom...  of the top 8. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

17 minutes ago, Luther said:

If other clubs knew that Rockliff was going that cheap, surely the Lions would be receiving far better offers?

A second rounder and a guy that can't get a gig in our 1st grade... 

cant see how this plays out. Hope so though!

16 minutes ago, demoniac said:

You have to look at free agency not in isolation but as an adjunct to the destination club concept.

At the end of 2014 the Hawks lacked a key defender and were able to pick up a 26 year old former All Australian Key Defender for free under free agency. They now realise they lack a forward/ruck option and look set to claim the best free agent in that position again for free in the 26 year old Ty Vickery.

They now realise their midfield is weak so using destination club status they are favourites to recruit Jaeger O'Meara and Tom Mitchell. The same mechanism they have used to recruit for 'unders' the likes of Gibson and Gunston.

Essentially if they are smart their 'bottoming out' will see them at the bottom...  of the top 8. 

No, I only have to look at FA as it is written within the rules.

A poster made erroneous claims re Hawthorn and FA.

We all know they're a destination club and we all know how well they've done through trading, but it is simply incorrect to state that they've done incredibly well through FA.  They haven't.  That may change o f course, but the assertion made was incorrect.

Everything else merely states the bleeding obvious.

15 minutes ago, Demons2riseagain said:

A second rounder and a guy that can't get a gig in our 1st grade... 

cant see how this plays out. Hope so though!

IF TRUE, it would have a lot to do with Rockliff's contract. The rumour was that he is on $800k a year with I think 2 years left.

Mitchell will stay or go, at about $500k a year. So who would want to pay Rockliff  $800k? Probably no one.

But, if we got Lions to pay a bit and we paid the rest, with some upfront, as we probably have some room this year with Melksham bonus etc, you could work out a deal.

I think the Lions are absolutely desperate to get rid of Rockliff and not many clubs can afford him and are worried by his baggage.

Anyway good to read positive rumours, even if they don't come through.

 

What would people reckon Rockliff would be worth $$ wise. If we renegotiated his contract, whilst he gets a tonne of the footy, he's not very effective. Couldn't see us wanting to pay him over $400k a year?

 

I feel like the clubs no '[censored]' policy would preclude us from having any interest in Rockliff.  I don't think he would fit our culture and our ethos going forward.  

9 minutes ago, Neitz the Great said:

What would people reckon Rockliff would be worth $$ wise. If we renegotiated his contract, whilst he gets a tonne of the footy, he's not very effective. Couldn't see us wanting to pay him over $400k a year?

 

Oh yes we would, but obviously not $800k.

A guy who racks up 40 possies in games and plenty of clearances is worth more than $400k.  Jesse wouldn't be upset to see him in red and blue..

3 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

I feel like the clubs no '[censored]' policy would preclude us from having any interest in Rockliff.  I don't think he would fit our culture and our ethos going forward.  

You wouldn't think so, but leaving his club, losing his captaincy, a fresh start, with guys like Goody and McCartney and we might back ourselves in to get the best out of him.

Just now, Redleg said:

You wouldn't think so, but leaving his club, losing his captaincy, a fresh start, with guys like Goody and McCartney and we might back ourselves in to get the best out of him.

Maybe, and you can never say never in football these days, but he has plenty of form and with a young group like ours I just don't see him fitting in.

2 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Maybe, and you can never say never in football these days, but he has plenty of form and with a young group like ours I just don't see him fitting in.

I would want to know who he would tip out of the starting midfield, as 3 of them finished in the top 5 in the B&F and the rest are young up and comers who you would want to get games into

Just now, Satyriconhome said:

I would want to know who he would tip out of the starting midfield

Jack Viney.

1 minute ago, Satyriconhome said:

I would want to know who he would tip out of the starting midfield

He is best 22 at Melbourne, end of story, don't have to worry who he tips out of the midfield.

Would you have him in the side before Bugg, enough said?

I actually rate Rockliff. Play him as a mid resting forward in a real team and he could kick 30 for a season 

1 minute ago, Redleg said:

He is best 22 at Melbourne, end of story, don't have to worry who he tips out of the midfield.

Would you have him in the side before Bugg, enough said?

Sorry Red but I would be, my midfield would be Jones. Viney, Tyson, Oliver, Vince, Brayshaw...don't see the need for him, especially if he stops Brayshaw/Oliver/Petracca getting games, but as Wise says, who knows these days

good player and would improve us 'on field' but a bit concerned we might regret it in the long run. From all reports, a very divisive character. at this point we seem to have an extremely tight locker room. 

If we took him he would be a good replacement for Vince as he retires in the next 12-24mths

 

Rockliff is underused as a marking forward.  He's incredibly good at having a mismatch and taking one on one grabs.  He doesn't have great hurt factor in the midfield, but he and Petracca changing off a half-forward flank would be interesting and cause headaches.

Like most rumours, I place zero faith in this one.

1 minute ago, Satyriconhome said:

Sorry Red but I would be, my midfield would be Jones. Viney, Tyson, Oliver, Vince, Brayshaw...don't see the need for him, especially if he stops Brayshaw/Oliver/Petracca getting games, but as Wise says, who knows these days

This year, unless I am wrong, Michie, Newton, ANB,  Bugg, Wagner all got games. None of them are in Rockliff's class.

To be honest, I am not convinced that Vince isn't on the way down and you have him in your starting midfield. 

I see Petracca more as a burst forward and occasional mid, as opposed to a starting mid, so no issue. He is best 22 anyway.

We always have injuries and Rockliff is simply best 22 at Melbourne, every day of the week.

If that deal that was rumoured is true, fantastic.

2 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Rockliff is underused as a marking forward.  He's incredibly good at having a mismatch and taking one on one grabs.  He doesn't have great hurt factor in the midfield, but he and Petracca changing off a half-forward flank would be interesting and cause headaches.

Like most rumours, I place zero faith in this one.

I agree with what you are saying about him and Petracca, but personally I don't see the need for Rockcliff, especially with his 'issues', but who knows

2 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Rockliff is underused as a marking forward.  He's incredibly good at having a mismatch and taking one on one grabs.  He doesn't have great hurt factor in the midfield, but he and Petracca changing off a half-forward flank would be interesting and cause headaches.

Like most rumours, I place zero faith in this one.

Precisely. There's definitely a place for him but so far there's been no indication whatsoever that we're an interested party. 

6 minutes ago, ProDee said:

 

Like most rumours, I place zero faith in this one.

Don't disagree, but I lead a boring life and these rumours give me some temporary interest and enjoyment.

Until this year, when we started to play some decent footy at times, my favourite part of the footy year, was trade week and draft days.

6 minutes ago, Whispering_Jack said:

Precisely. There's definitely a place for him but so far there's been no indication whatsoever that we're an interested party. 

Could that be because we don't leak anymore?

Personally, I’m disappointed that we didn’t trade Hogan and possibly our 2nd round draft pick for Nick Nat, especially while his value is down with injury.

40 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Could that be because we don't leak anymore?

Don't quite agree with this - we knew about Hibberd and Melksham a fair way out, we knew about Bugg and Kennedy by the start of last year's trade period, and it was pretty well known that we improved our draft standing last year to pick up Oliver.

That being said, I won't be surprised if there's one or two minor trades, but nothing major.