1 minute ago, Vogon Poetry said:

Chris and ProDee have hit it on the head.

I'm always surprised how people like Ox, who have played so much footy and work in the industry, have so little understanding of list development.

I'm confident that in most games this season we have fielded a team that has less experience in terms of games and has been younger than our opposition.  History shows that when you do that you are at a disadvantage.  We've won seven games.  That's a good result in those circumstances and is grounds for much confidence.

Ox is just looking at a small spot in our journey and is frustrated.  Roos has been exceptional in his rebuilding of the club and will leave it infinitely better than he found us. I don't like the man but credit where it's due and I thank him for what he's done.

Ox is mouthing the frustration of the nuff nuff's who don't understand the journey we are on.

So you think we were good on Sunday?

 

1 minute ago, stuie said:

So you think we were good on Sunday?

 

You and Ox are very similar in some respects Stu.

1 minute ago, Vogon Poetry said:

You and Ox are very similar in some respects Stu.

He was venting after that game and labeling it a crap performance. Did you actually hear it or are you going by the headline? He didn't do an "in-depth list analysis", he didn't complain about Roos, he was talking about the St Kilda game.

17 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

Did the FD select a team that had too many injured players? 

Ox loves the Dees, but needs to temper his views, particularly in his role. 

Even in their respective clubs' darkest moments, Billy Brownless, Jason Dunstall, Dermie, etc never, ever gave their club a spray in public.

Their  clubs were never as hopeless as just about every club  in the comp hasn't been for decades and they have had nothing to complain about in the past decade. Dermie did give Hawthorn several sprays  when they had a few bad seasons in the early 2000's I recall.

Edited July 19, 20169 yr by america de cali

4 minutes ago, stuie said:

So you think we were good on Sunday?

 

If you can find one person who thinks we were good on Sunday then I would be very surprised. That doesn't mean we aren't better than we were, it also doesn't mean the entire rebuild has been a  waste and hasn't worked, it also doesn't mean all the potential in the group has vanished over night. 

If we managed to get up this weekend against a top 8 side on the other side of the country would you still think the whole rebuild was off track?

2 minutes ago, stuie said:

He was venting after that game and labeling it a crap performance. Did you actually hear it or are you going by the headline? He didn't do an "in-depth list analysis", he didn't complain about Roos, he was talking about the St Kilda game.

Yet he spoke about top draft picks over a long period of time, and poor development etc etc. Seems he was making a pretty pointed comment about the club over a far longer period than just Sundays game. 

Yes he was having a whinge, yes he was right in many respects, but he also missed the truth of where we are at right now and that many of those truths are no longer true.

3 minutes ago, stuie said:

 he didn't complain about Roos, he was talking about the St Kilda game.

Quote

Schwarz said he was frustrated by the club's lack of progress in three seasons under Roos, despite Melbourne's steady improvement from the nadir of a two-win season in 2013

 

1 minute ago, Chris said:

If you can find one person who thinks we were good on Sunday then I would be very surprised. That doesn't mean we aren't better than we were, it also doesn't mean the entire rebuild has been a  waste and hasn't worked, it also doesn't mean all the potential in the group has vanished over night. 

If we managed to get up this weekend against a top 8 side on the other side of the country would you still think the whole rebuild was off track?

I heard Ox's whole rant, and the context was the St Kilda game. He made an off the cuff remark about "number 1 picks", but it was clearly a bit facetious in tone. It was simply the vent of a supporter after a bad game, don't understand why people are getting so upset and giving it so much attention.

 

1 minute ago, Vogon Poetry said:

 

Again, did you hear it or are you going by headlines?

You realize that's not a quote from Ox you posted right? It's part of the article.

Just now, stuie said:

 don't understand why people are getting so upset and giving it so much attention.

Who's upset?  Schwarz is a professional football commentator.  If I want irrational venting I've got all I want on Demonland.

Commentators who let irrational passion get in the way of sensible football analysis are of no interest to me.

Ox and many supporters here don't get it and a quick to blame convenient issues such as "psychobabble of Etihad".

Etihad highlights our lack of speed.  Our onballers are really one-paced.  Petracca and Brayshaw aren't quick either.  Vince, Jones, Tyson, Salem etc... etc...  I said it in a post earlier this year.  We can't defend a quick spreading team, and are better suited to playing the likes of Collingwood, Richmond, North Melbourne, Freo (circa 2016), Geelong, Hawthorn rather than super-quick teams.

Bulldogs beat us there by 100 wasn't it, a year ago.  St.Kilda are inconsistent, but our supporter-base haven't given them the respect they deserve.  They are young, provide ferocity at the contest, and are quick.

Matthew Lloyd said the same thing about North's mids last night on FC.  One-paced and lack line-breakers.  Leigh Matthews has said it about us time and time again, but because it is a negative, demon supporters block their ears and mention "Bruns".

 

 

 

Roos and Co have done well; but they have gone over-board on one-paced inside types.

 

Penny finally dropped?  Maybe.

2 minutes ago, Chris said:

Yet he spoke about top draft picks over a long period of time, and poor development etc etc. Seems he was making a pretty pointed comment about the club over a far longer period than just Sundays game. 

Yes he was having a whinge, yes he was right in many respects, but he also missed the truth of where we are at right now and that many of those truths are no longer true.

Did you hear it? As I said above, he threw in some off the cuff remarks about draft picks etc, but that's just standard Ox getting carried away in his rant after a poor game. The context was the Saints game, 90% of what he said was directly about that game. I think this is one of those cases where people are getting sucked in by the article rather than actually hearing what was said.

15 minutes ago, Vogon Poetry said:

Chris and ProDee have hit it on the head.

I'm always surprised how people like Ox, who have played so much footy and work in the industry, have so little understanding of list development.

I'm confident that in most games this season we have fielded a team that has less experience in terms of games and has been younger than our opposition.  History shows that when you do that you are at a disadvantage.  We've won seven games.  That's a good result in those circumstances and is grounds for much confidence.

Ox is just looking at a small spot in our journey and is frustrated.  Roos has been exceptional in his rebuilding of the club and will leave it infinitely better than he found us. I don't like the man but credit where it's due and I thank him for what he's done.

Ox is mouthing the frustration of the nuff nuff's who don't understand the journey we are on.

Fan?  This aint you?

1 minute ago, Vogon Poetry said:

Who's upset?  Schwarz is a professional football commentator.  If I want irrational venting I've got all I want on Demonland.

Commentators who let irrational passion get in the way of sensible football analysis are of no interest to me.

Then don't listen to him. Simple.

5 minutes ago, stuie said:

Then don't listen to him. Simple.

I don't.  I read it here and responded.

In retrospect, I should have taken my own advice.

3 minutes ago, Vogon Poetry said:

Who's upset?  Schwarz is a professional football commentator.  If I want irrational venting I've got all I want on Demonland.

Commentators who let irrational passion get in the way of sensible football analysis are of no interest to me.

Exactlly why I don't listen to him.

It does disgust me that he blows off in public though     looking for a headline   where we are at at the moment with the inexperience if Jones and Vince have ordinary games and the rest don't play as a team, we lose     Carey had a go at this very thing but then said if he was to coach he would prefer us over the Saints  because he had analysed not vented

He's right to a degree, where we've gone and how we've developed are probably below where we'd want and where we think they should be. We were a far better side than 4 wins in 2014, we were better than a 7 win side in 2015, and as it stands we're better than a 7 win side in 2016 but it might be tough once again to move beyond it. Three years in a row now we lose the same games, against the same teams, in situations we should win, but don't. It's a vicious cycle. Last year against Geelong we "turned the corner". Against Richmond and then Collingwood we "turned the corner". But we lose to Essendon, get smashed by St Kilda, get smashed by Port, can't win at Etihad, let teams break all sorts of records against us (tackling, contested ball), let spuds light it up under no pressure. It's astonishing. Still. We're had this conversation at the same time each of the past three years.

Blues, Saints have all pushed top 8 sides on a number of occasions but we tend to fold. Guys like N Jone and Vince, they've been in the system for a decade. I was disappointed with Jones on the weekend because surely he must be sick of loosing there and against that mob. His body language didn't scream "LET'S WIN THIS" to me. I hate to point the finger at him, though. He's one guy. But he's cooked as a leader. I've said it once and I'll say it again: A Nate Jones captained Melbourne just won't go very far. It's a hard thing to say against a club stalwart, but it is what it is #Neeldism. 

I'm worried that guys like McDonald, Jetta, Tyson, Garlett have all developed losing habits. None of them are "leaders", they tend to be part and parcel of bad performances. My concern with Viney is that he becomes just another Jones: a good player and clubman but just someone who goes through the motions. He had a Nathan Jones kind-of-game on Sunday: good, but, like, nothing special. He held his head high and performed. It was one of those "the only guy who can hold his head high" kind of games.

I went into the game thinking, "Surely we'll beat them. Surely. SURELY!" I'm more bewildered than angry now. It's a rather astonishing record. Comical, even.

And we have another one this week. Eagles have beaten us the last nine times. We haven't won in Perth since 2002 (!!!!).

We're just a bad club. It's not so much the development. It's just a bad club with bad records. You could bring in God himself and even he would surely think, "[censored], this club hasn't won here in a decade+...what hope do we have!" 

Melbourne isn't just coming back from a poor list and poor performances. It's trying to climb out of a stigma that hangs onto the jumper like a desperate ex. That's got to have some sort of effect on whoever pulls the jumper on. There's no "pride". That's hard to build.

5 minutes ago, TGR said:

Ox and many supporters here don't get it and a quick to blame convenient issues such as "psychobabble of Etihad".

Etihad highlights our lack of speed.  Our onballers are really one-paced.  Petracca and Brayshaw aren't quick either.  Vince, Jones, Tyson, Salem etc... etc...  I said it in a post earlier this year.  We can't defend a quick spreading team, and are better suited to playing the likes of Collingwood, Richmond, North Melbourne, Freo (circa 2016), Geelong, Hawthorn rather than super-quick teams.

Bulldogs beat us there by 100 wasn't it, a year ago.  St.Kilda are inconsistent, but our supporter-base haven't given them the respect they deserve.  They are young, provide ferocity at the contest, and are quick.

Matthew Lloyd said the same thing about North's mids last night on FC.  One-paced and lack line-breakers.  Leigh Matthews has said it about us time and time again, but because it is a negative, demon supporters block their ears and mention "Bruns".

 

 

 

Roos and Co have done well; but they have gone over-board on one-paced inside types.

 

Penny finally dropped?  Maybe.

While I agree a line breaker would help the team no end, and I think we may have one in Hunt and maybe Stretch but both need time, I really don't think taking advice from Matthews about our list is great. This is the same bloke who was surprised to see Watts int eh ruck and basically laughed and said you wont see that too often. He didn't say this 6 or 8 weeks ago when Watts started rucking, he said it on Sunday, and was shot down by one of the other commentators who it seemed had actually seen us play and taken notice of it at some point this year. I don't think Leigh pays us any respect and takes very little notice of us. His opinion is next to worthless for us, not because he doesn't know football and because he doesn't know us. 

The club is giving players the opportunity to develop. Some come on - others don't. Nathan Jones is a fine example of a self motivated player, who developed under conditions where others probably didn't. I think the conditions at the MFC are far better now. If players want to make it they have that opportunity. Viney is developing well, Hunt, OMAC, Garlett and Vince have shown improvement at the club. Schwartz just blowing off steam, he is probably talking through his pocket.

1 minute ago, Chris said:

While I agree a line breaker would help the team no end, and I think we may have one in Hunt and maybe Stretch but both need time, I really don't think taking advice from Matthews about our list is great. This is the same bloke who was surprised to see Watts int eh ruck and basically laughed and said you wont see that too often. He didn't say this 6 or 8 weeks ago when Watts started rucking, he said it on Sunday, and was shot down by one of the other commentators who it seemed had actually seen us play and taken notice of it at some point this year. I don't think Leigh pays us any respect and takes very little notice of us. His opinion is next to worthless for us, not because he doesn't know football and because he doesn't know us. 

I must admit, that (What is Watts doing in the ruck?) was Lethal's low-point.  In addition to justifying the Caroline Wilson vitriol on 3aw.  He is getting old no doubt.  But he worked out Melbourne and our deficiencies, long before the rank-n-file did here.

 

1 hour ago, stuie said:

You could go to the SEN website and listen to the podcast on it if it helps?

Honestly, I hear him like this after some of our poor games like Sunday's one, and he comes across always as a Dees fan first, media guy second. He's a bit like Demonland, he rants and raves the day after a game and then settles during the week and let's himself get his hopes up again.

 

Don't always agree with you but il back you on this one as i listened to it on SEN and the way i got out of it was that he was genuinely frustrated as a Melbourne supporter. He didn't have his media hat on. He spoke passionately because i think it was Leach who asked him what his thoughts as a Melbourne supporter and he answered no different to what we all say on here.

And i agree with big Ox.

15 minutes ago, Vogon Poetry said:

I don't.  I read it here and responded.

In retrospect, I should have taken my own advice.

Haha fair enough! He's an emotional bloke our Ox, can't fault his passion though.

 

42 minutes ago, Vogon Poetry said:

Chris and ProDee have hit it on the head.

I'm always surprised how people like Ox, who have played so much footy and work in the industry, have so little understanding of list development.

I'm confident that in most games this season we have fielded a team that has less experience in terms of games and has been younger than our opposition.  History shows that when you do that you are at a disadvantage.  We've won seven games.  That's a good result in those circumstances and is grounds for much confidence.

Ox is just looking at a small spot in our journey and is frustrated.  Roos has been exceptional in his rebuilding of the club and will leave it infinitely better than he found us. I don't like the man but credit where it's due and I thank him for what he's done.

Ox is mouthing the frustration of the nuff nuff's who don't understand the journey we are on.

Well I must be one of those nuffers Vo Po because it seems to me 50 + years is a [censored] long journey and inept efforts like last Sunday indicate there is no end in sight.

4 minutes ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

Well I must be one of those nuffers Vo Po because it seems to me 50 + years is a [censored] long journey and inept efforts like last Sunday indicate there is no end in sight.

You must be one of those guys that pass a roulette table with a screen full of blacks and pump the red.

Ox should join Demonland