On 12/20/2015 at 10:00 AM, dazzledavey36 said:

Was Robbie Flower really a 'superstar'... Understand there are alot of really bias supporters on here but when i think superstar i think of Carey, GAJ, Matthews, Voss...

While Robbie was a fantastic player personally in my opinion he wasn't a superstar..

I saw Robbie play finals-his body was finished but he was still the most skilled man on the ground.

Plugger Lockett?

This "finals make a player" argument is bogus.

Enough good players in one team allows a team to make the finals and the better team wins the final.

This idea that greatness comes from finals is just simply not true.

Robbie refused good money from other clubs that won Finals.

On 21 December 2015 at 0:30 PM, ProDee said:

Flower was a genuine superstar of the game and it's only those that either weren't born or were primary school kids when he retired that would even question his status.

It was a different era with no AFL and 12 Victorian teams.  At times in his career Flower was considered the best player in the league, which is why he captained his state.  He was invariably named best aground or in the "best" in winning teams for the Big V.  

Imo, Flower should have been named on the wing in the team of the 20th century, but the fact that he was considered in the 4 for that position (along with Peter Matera) is testament to his standing.  Consider that again for one moment - Flower was considered in the best 4 wingman in 100 years of footy when footy was all about positional play.

Flower was inarguably the greatest goal kicking wingman of all time (40 goals from a wing one year) and in my view should have made that team.

If you're not overly familiar with Flower it's probably best that you don't posit an opinion.

What a great post.

As an aside, I think one of the most memorable performances I have ever seen by a Demon - and for two quarters, it was superstar-esque, was Travis Johnstone in the second and third quarters in the semi final against the Crows in 2002. His performance in that game was genuinely ridiculous.

Come to think of it, Goodwin would've played in that game.

 

Flashback: Epic Semi-Final 2002 - YouTube

https://www.youtube.com › watch › v...

 

Can't get the full URL but geez this was a good game. Think I shed a tear after it.

 

Peter Vardy - how good was he in 2002.

 

 

9 hours ago, Ron Burgundy said:

What a great post.

As an aside, I think one of the most memorable performances I have ever seen by a Demon - and for two quarters, it was superstar-esque, was Travis Johnstone in the second and third quarters in the semi final against the Crows in 2002. His performance in that game was genuinely ridiculous.

Come to think of it, Goodwin would've played in that game.

 

Yes but the fundamental trademarks of a champion and super star is consistency. Unfortunately it was always flashes of brilliance from Travis. 

I can gilt-edge, sworn oath, holus bolus, fair dinkum, blood oath guarantee - Robert Flower WAS a superstar!

On 20/12/2015 at 6:25 PM, stuie said:

While I don't disagree about Cotchin, superstars are made in finals, how many kicks have Jones and Vince got in the last two finals series?

 

Not a Robbie Flower fan?

3 hours ago, DemonFrog said:

Not a Robbie Flower fan?

Think you're missing the context mate. The post was about Jones & Vince being rated more as "superstars" given Cotchin hasn't played well in the last 2 finals series. I was pointing out it's an unfair comparison given Jones & Vince haven't even played finals in the last 2 years.

 

4 minutes ago, stuie said:

Think you're missing the context mate. The post was about Jones & Vince being rated more as "superstars" given Cotchin hasn't played well in the last 2 finals series. I was pointing out it's an unfair comparison given Jones & Vince haven't even played finals in the last 2 years.

 

I'm sure both would get more than four possessions each tho.

Saw Eddie bets was the "superstar" 

any melb players yet?

5 minutes ago, Gorgoroth said:

I'm sure both would get more than four possessions each tho.

Saw Eddie bets was the "superstar" 

any melb players yet?

Haha pretty safe bet! Still wouldn't call either a "superstar" til they've done something in finals though.

 

Not trying to pick a fight but there are some champions that didn't play finals

Trevor Barker 230 games

Gary Hardiman 224 games

Bob Skilton 217 games three Brownlows 1 Final

Kevin Murray  though I think he played a couple of finals.

Finals do not always make the superstar.

1 hour ago, Gorgoroth said:

I'm sure both would get more than four possessions each tho.

Saw Eddie bets was the "superstar" 

any melb players yet?

No melb players to feature, just a whole lot of overrated Richmond players... I look forward to a day next year dedicated to Jesse Hogan highlights, toweling up the likes of rance and frawley

53 minutes ago, Bossdog said:

Not trying to pick a fight but there are some champions that didn't play finals

Trevor Barker 230 games

Gary Hardiman 224 games

Bob Skilton 217 games three Brownlows 1 Final

Kevin Murray  though I think he played a couple of finals.

Finals do not always make the superstar.

Yep, will absolutely concede those blokes, Robbie too of course (3 finals), but they are a select bunch that transcend footy finals, and given what the original context was I don't think we'd be putting Jones and Vince in that league would we?

 

I was more referring to the "You can't be a superstar without proving it in finals"

There have been a lot of  "ss" players who have failed dismally in finals

Anyway no problems.....I will leave it at that

2 hours ago, Bossdog said:

Not trying to pick a fight but there are some champions that didn't play finals

Trevor Barker 230 games

Gary Hardiman 224 games

Bob Skilton 217 games three Brownlows 1 Final

Kevin Murray  though I think he played a couple of finals.

Finals do not always make the superstar.

Also Gary Hardeman

There will never be another player like Flower because of one thing that made him stand out amongst so called champs including

Carey, Voss,  Matthews and Ablett. That is HUMILITY. And you have got to watch for something like humility. That said I was never lucky enough to meet him. I think?

Two players were similar,  Baldock and Jesaulenko, saw both of them often, probably without the humility.

28 minutes ago, Bossdog said:

I was more referring to the "You can't be a superstar without proving it in finals"

There have been a lot of  "ss" players who have failed dismally in finals

Anyway no problems.....I will leave it at that

Fair enough, and as I conceded, they're can be exceptions I guess, but it's a fairly trusty rule usually.

In the end, it's an imaginary label given to players to sell the game, so I'm not overly fussed.

 

47 minutes ago, stuie said:

Fair enough, and as I conceded, they're can be exceptions I guess, but it's a fairly trusty rule usually.

In the end, it's an imaginary label given to players to sell the game, so I'm not overly fussed.

 

A team cannot be a champion team without winning the Premiership,  An individual can, and often has been, the best player of his time without even playing in a final because it is beyond his control.  Should a very good player consistently fail in finals then his 'superstar' status can be legitimately challenged but to question it because he hasn't had the opportunity is unjust.