When are posters going to realise that while our form has improved - the MFC has had another terrible season.

our defence is 6th-8th in the comp but our offence is putrid. Bit of a coincidence we lost Clark and Hogan at the start of the year. Had that not happened we would probably be about 9th on the ladder so don't get all preachy on us

our defence is 6th-8th in the comp but our offence is putrid. Bit of a coincidence we lost Clark and Hogan at the start of the year. Had that not happened we would probably be about 9th on the ladder so don't get all preachy on us

We are 4 and 13 with a percentage of 73.

It represents an 100% increase in wins and a 40% increase in percentage.

And it is still a terrible season.

So say the thousands of supporters that didn't return as members in 2014.

I vote 1 for I could not care less.

Finish last, get Petracca and sit pretty with Frawleys compo.

I was always a fan of our tanking efforts.

Over the years I've seen many sides tank, none better than Collingwood and West Coast.

Do you really think that finishing 16th reverses the threat of the above?

When are posters going to realise that while our form has improved - the MFC has had another terrible season.

Where we finish in the morbid milieu down the bottom is far less relevant to how we perform against the Hawks, in Perth, and against NM - and over and above those games - who we attract to the club in October.

No I dont think finishing 16th will reverse the trend but I do think finishing 16th with 6-7 wins and a percentage approaching 90% puts us way ahead of getting the woodenspoon for the run at next year.

We are 4 and 13 with a percentage of 73.

It represents an 100% increase in wins and a 40% increase in percentage.

And it is still a terrible season.

So say the thousands of supporters that didn't return as members in 2014.

yeah but if you just look at the wins column and say '4' like a child would, disregarding the FACT that we could just as easily be on 10 wins 7 losses, and the FACT that we could have expected as much as 100 goals from Clark and Hogan combined this year, you are looking at the question through a lens of sheer stupidity. It is not a 'terrible year' at all - it bothers me that the depth to which some people around here analyse what is going on is through a cursory glance at the ladder and a Neanderthal-like response of 'me not happy'.

yeah but if you just look at the wins column and say '4' like a child would, disregarding the FACT that we could just as easily be on 10 wins 7 losses, and the FACT that we could have expected as much as 100 goals from Clark and Hogan combined this year, you are looking at the question through a lens of sheer stupidity. It is not a 'terrible year' at all - it bothers me that the depth to which some people around here analyse what is going on is through a cursory glance at the ladder and a Neanderthal-like response of 'me not happy'.

But Clark and Hogan did not play. Not once.

It only happened in your dreams.

Its no good looking at 2014 as if they did.

But Clark and Hogan did not play. Not once.

It only happened in your dreams.

Its no good looking at 2014 as if they did.

Yeah and if we lost the best 22 in a plane crash it still wouldn't matter would it, makes no difference who is actually out there on the field, right?

Yeah and if we lost the best 22 in a plane crash it still wouldn't matter would it, makes no difference who is actually out there on the field, right?

i am only interested in what actually has taken place.

They didn't play. Together or singular. So you cannot factor it in.

i am only interested in what actually has taken place.

They didn't play. Together or singular. So you cannot factor it in.

ok cool 4 wins 'me no happy' no further insight required

ok cool 4 wins 'me no happy' no further insight required

nor am i. But it is fanciful to speak in terms of 10-7.

This has happened about twice but I have to agree with wyl - if we were close to being 10 and 7 we were even closer to being 0 and 17.

I am in furious agreement with Deeluded and Paul, there is no doubt that getting pick 1 and what ever we get for Chip if he goes will put us in a strong position to trade and will obviously give us a couple of chances to get the best player of the draft.

My point is that the benefit offered by having pick 1 as opposed to pick 4 is more about options than it is about any guarantee of picking the best players. There is every chance that we will acheve the industry average of getting recruiting right and while I havent done the figures I doubt it would be much more than 50%, way less when you start looking at getting that Judd, Swan, Buddy type player we need. The successful team dont rely on draft picks because it is so hit and miss they just buy the stars in.

Playing out a year under Roos and ending up with only 4 wins will place us in a worse position than 2012, 2011, 2010, 2009 and 2007 and I think the damage will be enormous that wont be repaired by pick one. The damage will be in terms of attracting sponsors, attracting members, getting a decent draw (financial), and reparing the damage to the players we have. It is the senior players we have now that need to drag the Dees up the ladder. We cant wait for no 1 draft picks to lead the charge. Melbourne is loosing all our best FA players when they come out of contract and the only way to halt this is to climb the ladder and give the boys hope and belief. Getting a draft pick 2 spots earlier will do nothing to stop the exodus.

Winning the wooden spoon is a path to joining the merry go round at the bottom of the ladder feeding the powerful clubs with early draft picks we have developed for them.

agreement? I said we 'd trade that pick, to turn that 1 pick, into about 4 players; quality of depth, & of that 4 or so players, chances are strong to find a couple at least who'll rise to very respectable AFL standards to drive our future... in a deep even draft.

it is the fact that Petracca is there, that makes the pick so strongly tradable. & IMO would achieve the Suns 2 picks + a little.

yeah but if you just look at the wins column and say '4' like a child would, disregarding the FACT that we could just as easily be on 10 wins 7 losses, and the FACT that we could have expected as much as 100 goals from Clark and Hogan combined this year, you are looking at the question through a lens of sheer stupidity. It is not a 'terrible year' at all - it bothers me that the depth to which some people around here analyse what is going on is through a cursory glance at the ladder and a Neanderthal-like response of 'me not happy'.

FACT Clarks not coming back

FACT Hogan is yet to pull on a jumper for the Dees

Just typing the work FACT in capitals doesnt make it a fact. Its not a fact we could have expected up to a hundred goals from Hogan and Clark. IMO we were very lucky to win 2 of the 4 we have won. We could just as easily just as easily be on 1 or 2 wins using your logic. The FACT is however we are on 4 wins with a percentage of 74%. The other FACT is that without further wins our percentage will drop, so lets not hang our fact hat on that one.

What I dont accept and where I differ from many is that finishing last has an up side. With all things taken into consideration it is a big fat negative.

FACT Clarks not coming back

FACT Hogan is yet to pull on a jumper for the Dees

Just typing the work FACT in capitals doesnt make it a fact. Its not a fact we could have expected up to a hundred goals from Hogan and Clark. IMO we were very lucky to win 2 of the 4 we have won. We could just as easily just as easily be on 1 or 2 wins using your logic. The FACT is however we are on 4 wins with a percentage of 74%. The other FACT is that without further wins our percentage will drop, so lets not hang our fact hat on that one.

What I dont accept and where I differ from many is that finishing last has an up side. With all things taken into consideration it is a big fat negative.

Doesn't that preseason game count?

FACT Clarks not coming back

FACT Hogan is yet to pull on a jumper for the Dees

Just typing the work FACT in capitals doesnt make it a fact. Its not a fact we could have expected up to a hundred goals from Hogan and Clark. IMO we were very lucky to win 2 of the 4 we have won. We could just as easily just as easily be on 1 or 2 wins using your logic. The FACT is however we are on 4 wins with a percentage of 74%. The other FACT is that without further wins our percentage will drop, so lets not hang our fact hat on that one.

What I dont accept and where I differ from many is that finishing last has an up side. With all things taken into consideration it is a big fat negative.

GNF reckons there is a chance he might, not really relevant to the thread and good chance it won't happen but I don't know if it's quite Fact just yet

GNF reckons there is a chance he might, not really relevant to the thread and good chance it won't happen but I don't know if it's quite Fact just yet

Okay, maybe a lower case fact?

Okay, maybe a lower case fact?

That's probably better haha, fact*

Sick of being losers. Any win, any step further away from the bottom - they are the only steps in the right direction.

All those who don't care about finishing last surely cannot be true Demons at heart.

And winning is the only way to get younger fans on board permanently - not as if MFC is breaking any records for young fan members/supporters.

THE REST OF THE SEASOIN COUNTS.

I think most supporters would agree when the ball is bounced on the day no matter who we play we hope like hell to beat the living suitcase our of the opposition and win the game and bugger where we end up on the ladder. From end of year perspective of finishing 18th, 17th, or 16th is little difference to me, yes another spoon, but i see the significant improvement in the side and sometimes you have to go backward to move forward. With that spoon comes shame but it also provides us with the first two choices in the draft that could deliver us some high quality steak knives thrown in with what ever trades Roos and co can negotiate.

Looking to the future and our memberships, and our confidence and our player retention etc etc etc. our performances in games will be more important than our position on the ladder.

If we should end up on the bottom of the table by playing lousy footy, that will hurt us more than help us. On the other hand, should we lose to our lowly opponents by a whisker, or a bad decision or whatever, we willl be able to take away the positives along with some cheap lessons for next year, without losing the faith of our supporters.

I don't mind where we finsih, but I do care how we finish the year off.

Whether we got Draft pick 1 (and a PP????) or pick 2 or 3 will not critically alter our future trajectory. WE just need that trajectory to a solidly UP.

Regardless of our ladder position I think we should put in an application for a PP, rather than get pick 1 i'd say we are a big chance to get an end of first round pick and get our compo from Chip to be Band 1 regardless of the contract, within reason.

Regardless of our ladder position I think we should put in an application for a PP, rather than get pick 1 i'd say we are a big chance to get an end of first round pick and get our compo from Chip to be Band 1 regardless of the contract, within reason.

I agree with the sentiment SPR.

The key would be what argument could we mount to warrant a PP? Losing Clark, uncertainty re Hogan injury will be helpful but not necessariy pursuasive. naturally, the Saints will also be pitching for a PP.

It will be interesting. In the absence of a PP, as a quid pro quo, we should be able to get a high pick if Chip should leave us (?)

I agree with the sentiment SPR.

The key would be what argument could we mount to warrant a PP? Losing Clark, uncertainty re Hogan injury will be helpful but not necessariy pursuasive. naturally, the Saints will also be pitching for a PP.

It will be interesting. In the absence of a PP, as a quid pro quo, we should be able to get a high pick if Chip should leave us (?)

the argument would be

no finals in 8 years

37 wins in 8 years

over the past 3 years we have lost Colin Sylvia, Brent Moloney, Jared Rivers, and probably James Frawley to free agency, had Aaron Davey, David Rodan, Shannon Byrnes, Mitch Clark and Brad Green retire, so we are losing key senior players consistently during this period at the bottom

I reckon we have a pretty powerful case

If we couldn't get a priority pick in 2013 surely we're no chance in 2014.

As has been suggested elsewhere, the AFL may well have handed us two priority picks in 2013 - Peter Jackson and Paul Roos.

the argument would be

no finals in 8 years

37 wins in 8 years

over the past 3 years we have lost Colin Sylvia, Brent Moloney, Jared Rivers, and probably James Frawley to free agency, had Aaron Davey, David Rodan, Shannon Byrnes, Mitch Clark and Brad Green retire, so we are losing key senior players consistently during this period at the bottom

I reckon we have a pretty powerful case

SPR,

Unfortunately, a number of the players lost in your list were players we actually moved on ourselves. The AFL know how dumb we have been in the past and I don't think will be moved to reward us on that basis. Winning bugger all games during the same period is why we were given a PP in the year we chose Tom $cully and Jack T (leaving Dustin Martin for the Tigers).

I know it always easy with 20/20 vision but we have made our own mess and will likely be told we need to live with it.

Our case for a PP still remains fairly lacklustre I fear.