I had the pleasure of talking with Shaun Smith about injuries and although the Science has progressed he said the tightrope hasn't. Shaun said he was never 100% pain/ache/niggle free - it was a fine line between what was his norm and what was a more serious injury with which he shouldn't play. He reckons 90% of the time the medico's and himself go it right. He pointed out that nothing has changed today and the medical staff still heavily rely on player feedback as to what is going on with their bodies.

Players play with niggles and soreness - the scans didn't pick up Trengoves fracture.

If you took the cautious approach with 3/4 of the players playing today you wouldn't have any of them on the field.

But we slam the medico's for Trengove playing when perhaps he shouldn't and we slam the medico's because Hogans back isn't following the timetable we would like.

You're right in that sense.

But.. even the amateurs on this site ( and I definitely include myself) having been banging on about Trengoves lack of running power.

It is so obvious he has lost all acceleration over the last two years.

I posted a video of him in the U18s on another thread somewhere.

The difference is stark.

Yet the professionals can't see that there must be something not right.

The big worry for me is, if they did earlier scans on his foot ( I assume that by omission in the Josh Mahoney statement), they must have suspected a foot problem.

Everyone knows from their own experience that scans can be inconclusive.

So why would you not look further when the bloke is obviously struggling?

Especially when he has history.

Actually, we get the extremes right. When something clearly needs rest, we give it. When the accelerator needs to be pressed with rehab, its all guns blazing. What is a lot more difficult to nail is the in-between; what slight pains can we ignore, and which ones must we respect.

this !

You're right in that sense.

But.. even the amateurs on this site ( and I definitely include myself) having been banging on about Trengoves lack of running power.

It is so obvious he has lost all acceleration over the last two years.

I posted a video of him in the U18s on another thread somewhere.

The difference is stark.

Yet the professionals can't see that there must be something not right.

The big worry for me is, if they did earlier scans on his foot ( I assume that by omission in the Josh Mahoney statement), they must have suspected a foot problem.

Everyone knows from their own experience that scans can be inconclusive.

So why would you not look further when the bloke is obviously struggling?

Especially when he has history.

And you think the professionals have not picked up the difference between what he was like at U18 and his running power is like now but all at Demonland have. Interesting.

And you think the professionals have not picked up the difference between what he was like at U18 and his running power is like now but all at Demonland have. Interesting.

Perhaps I didn't put it very well.

If they can see what everyone else can, why run him around at Casey?

Why not investigate if there is even a hint of a foot problem?

What's the deal with football boots? Clubs have jumper and shorts suppliers but I vaguely recall that perhaps boots are left to the individual player. I know one thing. If I was the licensed Melbourne boot supplier...I'd either (a) be keeping a low profile right now or (b) making a big announcement about working with the club to improve the design and fit of the club's boots to improve foot support.

the outer part of the boot is not as important as the arch and footbed which can be retro fitted into anything.

I am sorry to hear about Jack , but it seems now the media are saying that this could be the end of his career , especially if the injury doesn't heal properly

More Media Beat up or a Real possibility ?

Whichever it is it does not look good for him .

From a Melbourne Football Club perspective , I wouldnt waste any money on taking out any tattslotto tickets , we would obviously have two chances buckleys and none

You have to love the positivity of this kid

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-04-16/some-relief-for-trengove

Talks about how he felt he couldnt push off and run has fast as he used to.

Get well young fella, we all want you back to your best!.

Perhaps I didn't put it very well.

If they can see what everyone else can, why run him around at Casey?

Why not investigate if there is even a hint of a foot problem?

Buddy Franklin had 3/4 of a season where he couldn't mark overhead ( not that he is much better now) because of shoulder complaint restricting his movement - he kpet playing but didnt raise his arm over his head.

I recall Chris Judd having a knee soreness that restricted his explosiveness but kept playing as it was assessed that playing on it wouldnt aggravate his condition any further ( he did have a scrape post season).

The foot problem has certainly slowed Trengove - but he was dropped to Casey due to form not because he was slow. Trengove has a fracture that requires surgery - who knows if it was caused and further exacerbated by playing with a pre-existing injury. The underlying problem that was not revealing itself to a scan may not have healed naturally with rest so you could have given him a month off and the problem still may have been there one he resumed.

Further to this - he complained of soreness after the casey game and they did a scan that revealed the fracture. Are we therefore assuming that he didnt complain of soreness previously ? Or he did complain of soreness and was ignored and no scans were done ?

The problem is that there is so much second guessing of the medical staff without knowledge.

You have to love the positivity of this kid

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-04-16/some-relief-for-trengove

Talks about how he felt he couldnt push off and run has fast as he used to.

Get well young fella, we all want you back to your best!.

Great to hear that he sees it the same way as many of us have, a sense of "thank god, an answer". If we thought we were frustrated with how he moved, it wouldn't hold a candle to how frustrated Jack must be.

Now that the dust has settled, I'm excited at the thought of seeing a reinvigorated Trengove in 2015.

Great to hear that he sees it the same way as many of us have, a sense of "thank god, an answer". If we thought we were frustrated with how he moved, it wouldn't hold a candle to how frustrated Jack must be.

Now that the dust has settled, I'm excited at the thought of seeing a reinvigorated Trengove in 2015.

I couldnt agree anymore with you nasher, i could see him busting his gut each game, he was running himself into a hole!, i'd love to see him come back in 2015 with a spring in his step, he is an incredable talent!.

There are some extreme views either way on this thread; with the truth more likely to be somewhere in the middle.

I was at training before the Geelong NAB challenge game and reported on here that Hogan had back issues (right sided for memory). Lets do the sums. He was clearly affected by a back problem; he is super young and talented; and the NAB challenge is nothing. He should not have played; irrespective of what the scan was to later show.

In relation to foot problems, no practitioner at MFC is negligent or ignorant; but that doesn't guarantee a knowledge void somewhere in the chain. Our physiotherapists are top notch, but physiotherapists spend hardly any time studying the foot and its pathologies etc... Physiotherapists think that they can apply pure physio principles to the foot, but that is only a small part of the picture. Apparently, our podiatrists are only part-time if that; but even podiatrists can sometimes be over-focussed on the insole and brand of the boot; and tutting at WAGs who wear high heels.

Then you get to the Foot Specialists, like Blakney, Bedi, & Schneider et al.. They are great foot surgeons, and Melbourne (the city) is lucky to have a number of foot surgeons to choose from. However, what the mug punter and even some health people don't realise is that their knowledge is really about surgery only. They have no idea about when rehab must take on a different approach other than 'textbook'. So during a rehab process when things aren't going too well, the surgeon is invariably guided by scans (nothing is wrong until radiologically depicted) or the black-and-white need to have another go at surgery.

Actually, we get the extremes right. When something clearly needs rest, we give it. When the accelerator needs to be pressed with rehab, its all guns blazing. What is a lot more difficult to nail is the in-between; what slight pains can we ignore, and which ones must we respect.

TGR, what exactly is your knowledge of physiotherapy, be it undergraduate, and postgraduate study and treatment of foot pathologies? What are you imagining when you say we think we can apply 'pure Physio principles' to the foot? Your statements are vague and clearly uninformed. And don't reply with anecdotal, singular first hand experience or second hand waffle. Give me some reason to think you're not just spinning nonsense.

TGR, what exactly is your knowledge of physiotherapy, be it undergraduate, and postgraduate study and treatment of foot pathologies? What are you imagining when you say we think we can apply 'pure Physio principles' to the foot? Your statements are vague and clearly uninformed. And don't reply with anecdotal, singular first hand experience or second hand waffle. Give me some reason to think you're not just spinning nonsense.

He's a physio, if my memory serves ;-)

Buddy Franklin had 3/4 of a season where he couldn't mark overhead ( not that he is much better now) because of shoulder complaint restricting his movement - he kpet playing but didnt raise his arm over his head.

I recall Chris Judd having a knee soreness that restricted his explosiveness but kept playing as it was assessed that playing on it wouldnt aggravate his condition any further ( he did have a scrape post season).

The foot problem has certainly slowed Trengove - but he was dropped to Casey due to form not because he was slow. Trengove has a fracture that requires surgery - who knows if it was caused and further exacerbated by playing with a pre-existing injury. The underlying problem that was not revealing itself to a scan may not have healed naturally with rest so you could have given him a month off and the problem still may have been there one he resumed.

Further to this - he complained of soreness after the casey game and they did a scan that revealed the fracture. Are we therefore assuming that he didnt complain of soreness previously ? Or he did complain of soreness and was ignored and no scans were done ?

The problem is that there is so much second guessing of the medical staff without knowledge.

Not second guessing anyone.

Where, in my post did I say he was dropped for being slow?

I said lack of acceleration. Surely that affects his form?

There was a statement made that he had scans earlier in the year related to his inability to 'push/take off'.

I didn't make that up. I'm sure that was part of Mahoney's original statement.

I'm just asking the question. Why, if he's obviously struggling, wouldn't you find out why?

PRESSER: http://www.melbournefc.com.au/video/2014-04-16/media-conference-jack-trengove

"15 months ago it first cropped up. Healed, but still remained sore and slowly got sorer and sorer.

As a leader of the club would love to stick around and help out where he can. " (paraphrasing).

Spoke extremely well, i could most certainly see him helping out on match day in terms of advice and support to the other younger players.

"i would love to get back to the footy i was playing in my first year, free of any burden and just enjoying myself" (paraphrasing).

The captaincy was a horrible thing to install on this young man.

"There was an element of relief there, as i had been battling away wondering why i couldn't move the way i could in the past, and it kinda was doing my head in a little bit. And to get the news that there is something actually wrong with me, then you think i'm not just losing it, there is a reason to an extent to why you are not moving the way you have in the past. Now to get all that behind me and get my body up to scratch and work on my weakness, and become a better player." (paraphrasing).

Said it before, and i'll say it again this injury could be a blessing in disguise for him.

Doesn't sound too good to me. Interesting to see if he plays again.

Modern Footy is non stop running...

Not second guessing anyone.

Where, in my post did I say he was dropped for being slow?

I said lack of acceleration. Surely that affects his form?

There was a statement made that he had scans earlier in the year related to his inability to 'push/take off'.

I didn't make that up. I'm sure that was part of Mahoney's original statement.

I'm just asking the question. Why, if he's obviously struggling, wouldn't you find out why?

the rather large assumption you are making is that the medico's weren't trying to figure out why.

PRESSER: http://www.melbournefc.com.au/video/2014-04-16/media-conference-jack-trengove

"15 months ago it first cropped up. Healed, but still remained sore and slowly got sorer and sorer.

As a leader of the club would love to stick around and help out where he can. " (paraphrasing).

Spoke extremely well, i could most certainly see him helping out on match day in terms of advice and support to the other younger players.

"i would love to get back to the footy i was playing in my first year, free of any burden and just enjoying myself" (paraphrasing).

The captaincy was a horrible thing to install on this young man.

"There was an element of relief there, as i had been battling away wondering why i couldn't move the way i could in the past, and it kinda was doing my head in a little bit. And to get the news that there is something actually wrong with me, then you think i'm not just losing it, there is a reason to an extent to why you are not moving the way you have in the past. Now to get all that behind me and get my body up to scratch and work on my weakness, and become a better player." (paraphrasing).

Said it before, and i'll say it again this injury could be a blessing in disguise for him.

Freudian slip when he says 'career' instead of 'season' ending injury?

Doesn't sound too good to me. Interesting to see if he plays again.

Modern Footy is non stop running...

He'll be back - see Grimes and Garland. It's also great he's got support of those guys who've been through a similar injury.

the rather large assumption you are making is that the medico's weren't trying to figure out why.

no larger than your assumption that they were.

Just watched the presser, very impressive young man our Jack. You can see why he was looked at as a leader and why he went no2. I would love to see him come back and tear games apart if any one deserves it this bloke does. Despite all the missmanagement and the crap this club has thrown at him he has stayed loyal and strong. He is a ripper.

He's a physio, if my memory serves ;-)

As one of them myself Nasher, I'm finding that very hard to believe.

Doesn't sound too good to me. Interesting to see if he plays again.

Modern Footy is non stop running...

I agree wyl I have a bad feeling about this

Webber, with the injury he has I assume he would be able to do almost everything except run: weights (maybe modifications for lower body exercises), bike (again maybe modified), swim, pilates/core etc.

Is this correct? I feel like in some ways this isa reasonably manageable condition that will allow him to maintain strength and fitness and even improve some of those areas, but lose running conditioning.

It would be fantastic to see him come out explosively at the start of next year.

the rather large assumption you are making is that the medico's weren't trying to figure out why.

You're onto it Nutbean. There's a misunderstanding on here that the 'absolute' exists for diagnosis, and treatment. It's not a perfect science, by some enormous margin. The imperfections of diagnostic testing are frustrating, be it MR, bone scan, X-ray, ultrasound, etc. Without evidence provided by the above, you're dealing with 'subjective' symptoms, and some objective evidence, e.g. Loss of power/speed, of which there can be a multitude of causes. Many bone pathologies need to reach a threshold of significance to become detectable to any of the battery of tests we can throw at them. Prior to that, you're dealing with possibilities only, for which there is no management plan.

I'm relieved for JT, and clearly so is he, that he has a definitive pathology now, for which there is a DEFINITIVE management plan, and for which the outcomes are mostly completely successful. There ARE exceptions, such as Egan and Croad. Egan's I don't know about, but Croad's became well known in the industry as being remarkable for the extent of midfoot damage he suffered. His career was over the moment he came to grief.

Navicular fractures are not uncommon, and NOT isolated to the MFC, nor more prevalent at the MFC.

Misson just admitted its related to his 2012 foot injury

Christ this cub is a joke at identifying and managing injuries

Misson must be sacked

Misson = not a doctor

Misson = not the person who medically clears a player as fit to play

Misson = someone who relies on medical specialists to give him correct advice

Shall I go on..?