On 03/04/2014 at 01:22, why you little said:

Jones is the only leader in that group.

He refuses to give up.

Jack Viney will be a leader for the same reason.

Different forms of leadership,

it's not, you either lead by example or you aren't a leader, Clark, when he's at the club is a great leader, always revving the boys up and doing the little things

Garland is another fantastic leader

Grimes and Trengove not so much i don't believe, Frawley probably is a good leader, but his mind is elsewhere

Lynden Dunn i reckon is a great leader.

  On 03/04/2014 at 01:26, Sassy said:

Different forms of leadership,

it's not, you either lead by example or you aren't a leader, Clark, when he's at the club is a great leader, always revving the boys up and doing the little things

Garland is another fantastic leader

Grimes and Trengove not so much i don't believe, Frawley probably is a good leader, but his mind is elsewhere

Lynden Dunn i reckon is a great leader.

I agree....at the moment we need blue collar leaders.

Head over the footy....take a bump, shake it off, get to another contest!!!

Lazy, overpaid, unskilled personnel.

  On 02/04/2014 at 23:54, longsuffering said:

Suggest you read WJ's report from the Devils Advocates function. Might put things in perspective. Also I think you are wrong to suggest that the playing group is fractured.

Thanks longsuffering - WJ's report from the DA function was fantastic - their work should be applauded

I can accept where the club is at and the amount of time it's going to need to turn this club around (I had hoped I made that clear) - I also don't dispute the off field team in the FD and Glenn Bartlett & Peter Jackson are the best the MFC have had in a long time.

What I am trying to articulate is the job Roos has to do might be bigger then he or anyone else expected. I reckon we'll get flogged by GWS this weekend and then watch the hounds in the media circle.

Things may get a lot worse before they get better..... All I really want to know is how are we going to eliminate the same mistakes I see year after year - simply mistakes like fumbling, missed tackles and lack of pressure - the 1% the MFC players haven't been able to get right for years??

I guess to summaries is - it really is worrying how hard the task of turning the Footy club around is - I've hear a lot - tons of talk but I see no change on field in over 6 years. I know were are only 2 weeks to a new regime and Roos and Co need a lot more time..... but old habits die hard and it's obvious a lot of the playing group continue to have the bad habbits and can't to th 1% which will lead to us losing badly again this weekend

I wont stop supporting this great club - but I am predicting a lot more bad times this year... Do we as a club have the patience to see that the job gets done properly? We all clearly remember the Neeld disaster once the players went in to their shells

I am being negative but I can see the same trends happening all over again

  On 03/04/2014 at 01:26, Sassy said:

Different forms of leadership,

it's not, you either lead by example or you aren't a leader, Clark, when he's at the club is a great leader, always revving the boys up and doing the little things

Garland is another fantastic leader

Grimes and Trengove not so much i don't believe, Frawley probably is a good leader, but his mind is elsewhere

Lynden Dunn i reckon is a great leader.

Yep. Lynden Dunn i agree.

Amazing to realize that 2 guys who are not leaders were dual captains.

Great guys but not leaders.

This is the root of our position.

Its my main frustration with not getting a certain Port player. He is a leader.

And by God we need them.

Clark is a leader but i doubt he will play again. Hope i am wrong...

Garland is not a leader. He works hard.

  On 03/04/2014 at 02:04, why you little said:

Yep. Lynden Dunn i agree.

Amazing to realize that 2 guys who are not leaders were dual captains.

Great guys but not leaders.

This is the root of our position.

Its my main frustration with not getting a certain Port player. He is a leader.

And by God we need them.

we don't have a player on our list who is going to step up at a critical moment and swing a game our way, Jones, Garland, Dunn are honest hard workers but they aren't going to break a game open and win it for you, Jack Viney and Jesse Hogan have the potential to be that though i think

  On 03/04/2014 at 02:06, Sassy said:

we don't have a player on our list who is going to step up at a critical moment and swing a game our way, Jones, Garland, Dunn are honest hard workers but they aren't going to break a game open and win it for you, Jack Viney and Jesse Hogan have the potential to be that though i think

With so many high draft picks we recruited the wrong players and now the results are showing.

I'm sure the reaction of some Demonlanders to news that Dunn is a decent leader would be similar to their reaction of being told Hitler wasn't that bad of a bloke.

I did note that the pre-match address was given by Jones and Dunn. Fat lot of good it did us, but it does signify that he is perhaps evolving into an unofficial leadership role.

  On 03/04/2014 at 02:04, why you little said:

Yep. Lynden Dunn i agree.

Amazing to realize that 2 guys who are not leaders were dual captains.

Great guys but not leaders.

This is the root of our position.

Its my main frustration with not getting a certain Port player. He is a leader.

And by God we need them.

Clark is a leader but i doubt he will play again. Hope i am wrong...

Garland is not a leader. He works hard.

Please stop reminding me!!!

I wanna break stuff!!

I'm gonna lie down.

  On 03/04/2014 at 02:22, jumbo returns said:

Please stop reminding me!!!

I wanna break stuff!!

I'm gonna lie down.

Feel the same way JR.

We have been given a lot of chances....

  On 03/04/2014 at 02:09, why you little said:

With so many high draft picks we recruited the wrong players and now the results are showing.

It's almost shocking how bad some have been, Sam Blease and James Strauss should have been Luke Shuey and David Zaharakis

Jamie Benell could have been steven Motlop

Jordan Gysberts and Luke Tapscott could have been Mitch Duncan and Jack Gunstan

Lucas cook - Jack Darling

the worst imo - Cale Morton- Patrick Dangerfield, Cyril Rioli, Ben Mcevoy, Harry Taylor, Callan Ward

  On 03/04/2014 at 02:04, why you little said:

Yep. Lynden Dunn i agree.

Amazing to realize that 2 guys who are not leaders were dual captains.

Great guys but not leaders.

This is the root of our position.

Its my main frustration with not getting a certain Port player. He is a leader.

And by God we need them.

Clark is a leader but i doubt he will play again. Hope i am wrong...

Garland is not a leader. He works hard.

revisionism again

Grimes, Trengove and Toumpas were all captains of their sides when they were drafted.. obviously they are/were considered to be leader types and it was more than reasonable for our recruiters to assume that they would develop into that role in the AFL arena also - you simply CANNOT suggest the club has overlooked the requirement for getting leaders in, wtf else are they supposed to do? The real issue is that we just stink as a side, and all these kids have looked terrible as a result.. and regular joe 6-pack can't make the distinction between a good player and a good leader, if you are a Trengove and you stink on-field you automatically get labelled a bad leader. Meanwhile if you are a gun like Selwood or Pendlebury or whatever you are automatically a good leader, it is absolutely idiotic mentality

  On 03/04/2014 at 02:33, Curry & Beer said:

revisionism again

Grimes, Trengove and Toumpas were all captains of their sides when they were drafted.. obviously they are/were considered to be leader types and it was more than reasonable for our recruiters to assume that they would develop into that role in the AFL arena also - you simply CANNOT suggest the club has overlooked the requirement for getting leaders in, wtf else are they supposed to do? The real issue is that we just stink as a side, and all these kids have looked terrible as a result.. and regular joe 6-pack can't make the distinction between a good player and a good leader, if you are a Trengove and you stink on-field you automatically get labelled a bad leader. Meanwhile if you are a gun like Selwood or Pendlebury or whatever you are automatically a good leader, it is absolutely idiotic mentality

Oh.

So, by all accounts you're saying we recruited (potential) leaders rather than footballers? Blokes who could actually get the Sherrin?

  On 03/04/2014 at 02:33, Curry & Beer said:

revisionism again

Grimes, Trengove and Toumpas were all captains of their sides when they were drafted.. obviously they are/were considered to be leader types and it was more than reasonable for our recruiters to assume that they would develop into that role in the AFL arena also - you simply CANNOT suggest the club has overlooked the requirement for getting leaders in, wtf else are they supposed to do? The real issue is that we just stink as a side, and all these kids have looked terrible as a result.. and regular joe 6-pack can't make the distinction between a good player and a good leader, if you are a Trengove and you stink on-field you automatically get labelled a bad leader. Meanwhile if you are a gun like Selwood or Pendlebury or whatever you are automatically a good leader, it is absolutely idiotic mentality

no it's not. It is the reality.

AFL is not U18's

The players on our list you mention are not leaders. Wish they were.

  On 03/04/2014 at 02:45, why you little said:

no it's not. It is the reality.

AFL is not U18's

The players on our list you mention are not leaders. Wish they were.

nope

if we were a top 8 side and Trengove was playing like Cotchin you'd be calling him a great leader. You have no other frame of reference for assessing his leadership qualities or otherwise. Explain to me how exactly you have arrived at this conclusion, have you been wiretapping training sessions or something

  On 03/04/2014 at 02:52, Curry & Beer said:

nope

if we were a top 8 side and Trengove was playing like Cotchin you'd be calling him a great leader. You have no other frame of reference for assessing his leadership qualities or otherwise. Explain to me how exactly you have arrived at this conclusion, have you been wiretapping training sessions or something

I have been watching him for 5 years. He aint a leader when the ball is bounced.

When it REALLY counts.

A leader is about more than just "leading from the front". A true leader is one that empowers those to take charge. Jones can work his butt off but does that make him a good leader? I don't know. He sets an example, which is a form of empowerment because it fuels endeavour and standards, but those around him lack the confidence to feel empowered. You can only do so much.

Trengove should never have been made captain. He needs empowerment, not to distribute it.

It was clear to me what kind of leaders Grimes and Trengove were after Neeld decided to start them on the bench at our next game against Geelong post 186. They were poster boy leaders in the boy band mold. A shameful marketing exercise typical of how the club was run then.

  On 03/04/2014 at 03:08, america de cali said:

It was clear to me what kind of leaders Grimes and Trengove were after Neeld decided to start them on the bench at our next game against Geelong post 186. They were poster boy leaders in the boy band mold. A shameful marketing exercise typical of how the club was run then.

186 was under Bailey. Green was captain.

  On 03/04/2014 at 03:09, Cudi_420 said:

186 was under Bailey. Green was captain.

read my post again.

  On 03/04/2014 at 03:08, america de cali said:

It was clear to me what kind of leaders Grimes and Trengove were after Neeld decided to start them on the bench at our next game against Geelong post 186. They were poster boy leaders in the boy band mold. A shameful marketing exercise typical of how the club was run then.

Pawns in a very strange game the previous clown school was playing.

Sassy Sassy Sassy.

trengove is averaging 22 touches a game, no impact he's not up to it. I like the guy and can see he gives his all but we need better to get off the bottom.

I'm not on Toumpees back I just think he's not ready and may never be. silly pick. should stay in seconds until he has really earned his spot

Frawley is overrated. Its not his fault the media and forums like this build guys up to be players they are not. He's been struggling for a long while.

Grimes is not up to the standard. Don't know how long it will take for Roos to confront this but it is a big reason as to why we are so hopeless. Many of our players are not up to the standard and our Co Captain is a stand out. Other clubs know this, they intercept his kicks at will. He is so predictable. Cant fault his courage though but unfortunately that's not all there is to it.

Watts BOG in round one yippee! We lost didn't we? still haven't seen him get a hard ball but I have seen him shirk it many times. This experiment is a monumental failure.

There are probably others but I have to work out how to change my photo. Sassy I hope you enjoy my new look

  On 09/04/2014 at 12:54, Frosty Demon said:

Sassy Sassy Sassy.

trengove is averaging 22 touches a game, no impact he's not up to it. I like the guy and can see he gives his all but we need better to get off the bottom.

I'm not on Toumpees back I just think he's not ready and may never be. silly pick. should stay in seconds until he has really earned his spot

Frawley is overrated. Its not his fault the media and forums like this build guys up to be players they are not. He's been struggling for a long while.

Grimes is not up to the standard. Don't know how long it will take for Roos to confront this but it is a big reason as to why we are so hopeless. Many of our players are not up to the standard and our Co Captain is a stand out. Other clubs know this, they intercept his kicks at will. He is so predictable. Cant fault his courage though but unfortunately that's not all there is to it.

Watts BOG in round one yippee! We lost didn't we? still haven't seen him get a hard ball but I have seen him shirk it many times. This experiment is a monumental failure.

There are probably others but I have to work out how to change my photo. Sassy I hope you enjoy my new look

Nice analysis Frosty My view it will take every bit of 2-3 years but we don't have that long. This season was so important for the club to show that they could move forward but instead they have gone backwards further damaging the brand and the supporter base. On watts he couldn't even out body Scully one one one .He is a complete cream puff and an embarrassment

Jackaub,

It will take some time but as long as the right calls are made on players it can turn around pretty quick. Lets just hope Roos can confront those tough decisions and can actually see who should go and who we keep and pick up. If and its a BIG IF, we can start making these right calls we will start to roll again and the brand will be fine.

  On 10/04/2014 at 05:29, Frosty Demon said:

Jackaub,

It will take some time but as long as the right calls are made on players it can turn around pretty quick. Lets just hope Roos can confront those tough decisions and can actually see who should go and who we keep and pick up. If and its a BIG IF, we can start making these right calls we will start to roll again and the brand will be fine.

He's been sharpening his pencil since Monday....

  On 10/04/2014 at 05:29, Frosty Demon said:

Jackaub,

It will take some time but as long as the right calls are made on players it can turn around pretty quick. Lets just hope Roos can confront those tough decisions and can actually see who should go and who we keep and pick up. If and its a BIG IF, we can start making these right calls we will start to roll again and the brand will be fine.

Put both Grimes & Trengove back to Casey for a start.

The worst decision of the last decade to make them co captains.

When have either of them done more than battle on??

The Captain leads by example.