Why are you criticising toumpas . Several posters are now lauding Lyndon Dunn who was perennially rubbished for years ....why can't we just let him develop. As roos said these young kids are not the messiahs......honestly some of you need to get a grip !!

That's not the point. This club has to sell hope not patience.

We passed up a highly tuned V8 midfielder for a kid with bad hips who showed potential.

And guess what he is a long way off yet. Do i blame Jimmy? No

Do i hold the previous recriuting staff responsible? Of course.

This club hasn't got 5 years up its sleeve. We were told to be patient in 2008.

And we are still playing like scared kids when the 4 points are on offer in 2014.

and you think Ollie Wines instead of Toumpas would make any difference to where we are right now?

you're kidding yourself, like it or not we are in for more waiting and it's going to be another 3 years before we can really compare the two players with any sort of idea that's more than a guess.

and you think Ollie Wines instead of Toumpas would make any difference to where we are right now?

Absolutely he would. I have watched a lot of his games. He is fearless. A bull bar that runs.

But we like the long term projects at Melbourne.

Why are you criticising toumpas . Several posters are now lauding Lyndon Dunn who was perennially rubbished for years ....why can't we just let him develop. As roos said these young kids are not the messiahs......honestly some of you need to get a grip !!

Amen to that!

you're kidding yourself, like it or not we are in for more waiting and it's going to be another 3 years before we can really compare the two players with any sort of idea that's more than a guess.

you are going to cop yesterdays garbage for another 3 years before making a decision??

Is this guy Barry Prendagest i am conversing with??

and you think Ollie Wines instead of Toumpas would make any difference to where we are right now?

you're kidding yourself, like it or not we are in for more waiting and it's going to be another 3 years before we can really compare the two players with any sort of idea that's more than a guess.

maybe for you.. 3...5 7 years....what does that matter

Are you unable to see what they accomplish now ? thats a comparison...of the "now" ,A final one is only able at the end...but progressive ones....honestly why not....except for those that wish not to look perhaps

If this club had been properly run over the past 4 years, he may well have not even played a game of yet.

Just the type of player Roos could develop nicely for a couple of seasons in the twos.

maybe for you.. 3...5 7 years....what does that matter

Are you unable to see what they accomplish now ? thats a comparison...of the "now" ,A final one is only able at the end...but progressive ones....honestly why not....except for those that wish not to look perhaps

THEY ARE THE SAME AGE....!!!

you are going to cop yesterdays garbage for another 3 years before making a decision??

Is this guy Barry Prendagest i am conversing with??

So, if you aren't getting best on grounds after 16 games you should be shown the door? righto then...

maybe for you.. 3...5 7 years....what does that matter

Are you unable to see what they accomplish now ? thats a comparison...of the "now" ,A final one is only able at the end...but progressive ones....honestly why not....except for those that wish not to look perhaps

there is a bigger picture than one player, even if we took Wines we'd still be a terrible team, it's alot easier to do what he's doing with Boak, Hartlett, Kornes, Wingard around you in a team that's winning more often than not.

put him in our side and year we are slightly better right now, knowing our luck Toumpas would be dominating for the dogs because they said there was no way he was getting past pick 5, it's really irrelevant, we have Toumpas, i think 16 games is too soon to make a judgement considering the state of the team and the club, clearly some people expect instant results or there is no point even drafting players, that's their choice.

and you think Ollie Wines instead of Toumpas would make any difference to where we are right now?

you're kidding yourself, like it or not we are in for more waiting and it's going to be another 3 years before we can really compare the two players with any sort of idea that's more than a guess.

Ollie Wines is bordering on AA. Toumpas would be lucky to get a game at Casey.

Based on their current rate of improvement over the space of a year, I'd rather not think 3 years ahead.

Ollie Wines is bordering on AA. Toumpas would be lucky to get a game at Casey.

Based on their current rate of improvement over the space of a year, I'd rather not think 3 years ahead.

He's a good player, there is no doubt about that, that's not what the arguement is about, i am saying that 16 games into his career, people want to delist Toumpas, it's insane, the kid isn't doing that badly, it's the stupid comparisons to Wines that cloud judgements,

personally i don't give a flying [censored] what Wines does or is, he plays for Port Adelaide, because Tood Viney as far as we know made a very educated decision to overlook him ( rumours aside ) and we have Toumpas.

So, if you aren't getting best on grounds after 16 games you should be shown the door? righto then...

not at all. But a few BOG's for Melbourne wouldn't go astray RIGHT NOW.

Dad's to kids in crowd "Just watch Olly. He's good"

Thats what my dad said to me as a 10 year old the day Robbie first played in 73. "Watch number 2...Robbie is good"

I kept coming back because of that.

We blew a big chance passing that kid up and you can disagree any way you like and it will not change my view.

Replace the words "hip problems" with "shoulders problem" and you've got exactly the same scenario with Chris Judd. West Coast knew about his shoulder problems and drafted him anyway (coincidentally at pick 3). Did they make the wrong decision?

The Pies drafted Sharenburg who has gone off for operations on each foot.

there is a bigger picture than one player, even if we took Wines we'd still be a terrible team, it's alot easier to do what he's doing with Boak, Hartlett, Kornes, Wingard around you in a team that's winning more often than not.

put him in our side and year we are slightly better right now, knowing our luck Toumpas would be dominating for the dogs because they said there was no way he was getting past pick 5, it's really irrelevant, we have Toumpas, i think 16 games is too soon to make a judgement considering the state of the team and the club, clearly some people expect instant results or there is no point even drafting players, that's their choice.

the point of al this is weve kept picking players with "skills" he has elite this or that

can they run , have they grunt...are they AFL OK ?

doesnt seem to matter

well it bloody does

Jimmy Toumpas played well yesterday. He's getting the pace of the game with each outing, is creative, clever with his disposals, and has a great tank for a kid his age. The negative absolutism on here in savaging someone who has played a handful of games for a rubbish team is just pathetic. As our youngest 2 players (excl JKH) out there, he and Dom Tyson showed a lot yesterday. Many of the comments on here are simply embarrassing.

I agree, what is it with some of our supporters, they have to single out certain players and put all the blame on them,e.g. Watts frickin' douchbags IMO

not at all. But a few BOG's for Melbourne wouldn't go astray RIGHT NOW.

Dad's to kids in crowd "Just watch Olly. He's good"

Thats what my dad said to me as a 10 year old the day Robbie first played in 73. "Watch number 2...Robbie is good"

I kept coming back because of that.

We blew a big chance passing that kid up and you can disagree any way you like and it will not change my view.

But that's not what i am arguing at all, Wines might be a superstar for the next 10 years, i am saying noone should be writing Toumpas off after 16 games, he has not had anything like a fair chance to show us anything yet, we have plenty of drafting mistakes that i think will prove far worse than this one.

there is a bigger picture than one player, even if we took Wines we'd still be a terrible team, it's alot easier to do what he's doing with Boak, Hartlett, Kornes, Wingard around you in a team that's winning more often than not.

put him in our side and year we are slightly better right now, knowing our luck Toumpas would be dominating for the dogs because they said there was no way he was getting past pick 5, it's really irrelevant, we have Toumpas, i think 16 games is too soon to make a judgement considering the state of the team and the club, clearly some people expect instant results or there is no point even drafting players, that's their choice.

i expect the team to be playing better than 2008

I don't consider waiting 7 years an instant result.

The Pies drafted Sharenburg who has gone off for operations on each foot.

they have some space to play in.... we have.... ummmmmm sfa

our picks needed to be on the money, not speculative or accumulative.

But that's not what i am arguing at all, Wines might be a superstar for the next 10 years, i am saying noone should be writing Toumpas off after 16 games, he has not had anything like a fair chance to show us anything yet, we have plenty of drafting mistakes that i think will prove far worse than this one.

I don't reckon Wines will be a superstar, he's a good player but superstar no

But that's not what i am arguing at all, Wines might be a superstar for the next 10 years, i am saying noone should be writing Toumpas off after 16 games, he has not had anything like a fair chance to show us anything yet, we have plenty of drafting mistakes that i think will prove far worse than this one.

he has no pace. He will be average at best.

We passed up a game breaker (again)

he has no pace. He will be average at best.

We passed up a game breaker (again)

you're guessing he will be average at best based on him having no pace...

you have no idea if Toumpas will be tearing teams apart with his pin point kicks in the future

we are only guessing here, Wines is better by a long way, for now, toumpas deserves the chance to prove everyone wrong.

What frustrates me about the Wines v Toumpas conversation is that it is now irrelevant.

You support the MFC. You think two years ago we made a mistake not drafting another player. Fine. Make your point and move on because, at the end of the day, you support Melbourne and we're discussing a Melbourne player.

It does no good to denigrate one of our own continuously because he is not someone else.

Indeed, supporters continually talking down his achievements because of the selection of a recruiting officer and the achievements of another person would probably be a big factor in him never reaching his peak.

If you're unhappy about it, say it by all means but then take a breath, get in your car, drive to bunnings, buy some wood, nails, hammers, look up google maps to find the nearest steam or river, research necessary instructions, build a bridge and get the bloody hell over it.

Toump is ours. Get behind him - he likely has a long time ahead in the game and probably at our club.

you're guessing he will be average at best based on him having no pace...

you have no idea if Toumpas will be tearing teams apart with his pin point kicks in the future

we are only guessing here, Wines is better by a long way, for now, toumpas deserves the chance to prove everyone wrong.

Happy to put some cash on it mate.

The recruiting of this club has been f'n deplorable and this one is top of the pile.

The saddest thing about the continued misguided 'debate' about Toumpas is not that drafting him wasn't a shocking selection (by any definition). It's not that it's largely fuelled by hindsight. It's not even that it's fuelled in many instances by hypocrisy.

It's that Toumpas is actually playing well, especially considering how many other MFC players are playing abysmally.