Don't stuff it up again MFC - learn from your mistakes

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

The one thing that concerns me the most at the moment is that this club will once again exercise no proper judgement and make yet another epic mistake in relation to a significant decision (ie, in relation to Mark Neeld, and the way in which any termination may be announced and any transition will then be undertaken).

In this regard, some of the suggestions for a replacement coach I'm reading here at the moment are laughable in the extreme. In fact, some of the suggested replacements are just plain stupid. They won't result in ANY positive outcome for this club. At all.

Hence, the club cannot afford to react in a knee jerk manner to this issue, much like most of the media and some of the supporters here tend to. Quite simply, it is far too important an issue.

Now, more than ever, is the time for the club and its supporters to remain calm, allow the club to conduct a measured and intelligent review/assessment of where the list and the football department is at, and, if the review tells us that Mark Neeld needs to be replaced, conduct an AFL endorsed process to identify and select a new coach.

What troubles me however is that won’t happen. Why? Because this club has an unenviable history of exercising poor judgement and emotional intelligence in recent years in relation to delicate issues.

Off the top of my head, some examples of poor judgement/limited EQ include:

1. Neeld comes in, treats the incumbent leadership group with absolutely no respect, publicly embarrasses certain players in the media (eg, Watts), runs down the quality of the list and the previous fitness regime, and marginalises most of the senior players (eg, Green, Moloney, Davey). Poor judgement – we paid for this (apparent player dissatisfaction).

2. The way in which Bailey was dumped was poorly handled by the club. It also resulted in various comments being made which seemingly led to the media driven 'tanking' investigation some three years after the club had been cleared of it by the AFL. Poor judgement – we paid for this (almost $1M in fact).

3. Bailey’s decision to dump Junior a year prematurely, and the way in which the news was delivered to him (just prior to the Port game at the end of 2010), was poorly handled. Poor judgement – we paid for this (no senior leadership).

4. Bailey’s decision to prematurely end the MFC careers of the likes of Robbo, Yze and White (and possibly also Brock McLean in retrospect) – and not to play some of the senior players who were still clearly in our best 22 at the time – revealed poor judgement (see 3 above – and 2 re: Brock McLean).

Point of this being:

If the decision is made to bring in a new head coach prior to the end of the season, it MUST be handled in a way that is sensitive to Mark Neeld and in a way which doesn’t fracture the player group and cost us plenty of money unnecessarily.

Whilst it seems some of the senior players have, or have had, an axe to grind with Neeld, I expect plenty of the junior and recently recruited players have strong loyalty to him. Surely that's obvious.

The club needs to be aware of this and very sensitive to this fact.

So MFC - please don’t stuff this up so as to temporarily appease:

(a) many in the media whose interests aren’t aligned to ours; and

( B) a body of restless supporters who simply want to see something done, even if it ultimately proves to be the wrong thing.

As an aside, I’m not sure Mark Neeld would agree to it, but perhaps there’s some utility in honouring his contract (saving us $$, saving him face and hopefully maintaining player unity) and appointing him the senior assistant midfield coach reporting to a known and respected senior coach of the ilk of a Roos, Matthews, Worsfold, Williams or Eade?

Edited May 29, 2013 by Ron Burgundy

[Slartibartfast 17,190]

Ron we've won one game against a non development club since Neeld took over. He's shown no skills as a coach. His list management has been a failure. The MFC is a laughing stock.

We need to act professionally but we need to act now even if it's appointing Viney or another FD person as coach until the end of 2014.

To fail to act now would be as big a failure as the many you've listed.

[jazza 1,323]

well put together big fella

take an extra 5.00 out of the till before you leave tonight

many have made similar comment but the doomsdayers couldnt see the trees for the forest

[Sir Why You Little 36,972]

I have been concerned since Round 1 2012 Ron.

There has been NO IMPROVEMENT ON FIELD.

It is all above the shoulders so it is the coach who must take the rap.

He is a teacher who is not teaching 20 months in.

[praha 11,236]

I love how people equate sacking a man with an 80-point average losing margin and essentially no wins against reputable opposition as a "knee jerk reaction".

A "knee jerk reaction" would have been to sack him at the end of last season, or even after round 1 this year.

Now it's just a formality.

[Wormburner 674]

Something has to be done

But agree the Board and CEO need to take into account our failures of the past.

I fear this club could not financially or socially afford or survive another blundered appointment.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

Ron we've won one game against a non development club since Neeld took over. He's shown no skills as a coach. His list management has been a failure. The MFC is a laughing stock.

We need to act professionally but we need to act now even if it's appointing Viney or another FD person as coach until the end of 2014.

To fail to act now would be as big a failure as the many you've listed.

I'm not arguing whether he should be the coach or not. I'm actually making the very simple observation - handle it properly and in such a way that minimises any further destruction to this club ...

[DeeSpencer 25,469]

We need to push past the way media spin everything in hindsight as well.

James McDonald was 33 about to turn 34 when we retired him. He was starting to slow down and we had a lot of promising young talent on the list. There was no reason to keep him.

Robbo, Yze and White were also starting to struggle and all were replaced by better players. Jamar was way past White. Jurrah was the new Robbo and Yze had run his race.

This issue was that besides McDonald none of the above were great leaders anyway and then they handed over the leadership batton to Green, Bruce, Moloney and co. Bailey never got the leadership issue sorted properly whilst he was there. Daniher never played enough young footballers as he desperately sought finals glory that was never going to happen. So the generation of kids he did play - Miller, Moloney, McLean, Rivers, Davey, Jamar, Sylvia just weren't up to it when they had to take over.

I don't blame Neeld at all for demoting this group, unfortunately he did it in such a manner that it ended up costing him and will likely go someway towards costing his job. No doubt we need strong leaders but if you are an experienced player and aren't one why should Neeld invest time in fixing your leadership instead of promoting the next generation. Neeld has brought in Mitch Clark and Dawes up forward, the Jack's will develop, Nathan Jones has developed as a leader, Garland and Frawley are trying in the back half. The wheel will turn for leaders and we will see long term a culture change into high performance.

No doubt we need a better coach who can actually teach football and build confidence and performance. But we will have thrown the baby out with the bath water (which is what Neeld did to many players who came in under Bailey) if we don't keep the standards Neeld has set in terms of training at a much higher level.

Of course the other issue is recruiting. Bailey had some ready to go players left over from the Daniher years (as named above), he then had some special if flawed talents in the likes of Jurrah and Wona. Best of all he had some nice shiny toys in high draft picks in Scully, Trengove, Morton (who played some decent footy his first 2 years), Grimes and co. Kids who looked damn good when the side was up and running. Neeld ended up paying for all the players who looked ok but weren't up to AFL standard recruited in the Bailey years. Then Neeld chucked too much of it away searching for a quick fix. Hopefully now with Jason Taylor we get back on the right track.

[Guest]

I'm not arguing whether he should be the coach or not. I'm actually making the very simple observation - handle it properly and in such a way that minimises any further destruction to this club ...

Spot on Ron. A lot of people on the 'Land seem to take his failure as a coach quite personally. It's not like that he has come in and had things go the way they have on purpose. I'm pretty certain that all he did was in good faith but the sad thing is it hasn't worked out. Good intentions however doesn't excuse what has happened and he needs to go.

If MN is to go then it needs to be done with as much grace as the situation allows. No dragged out processes, no hollow promises, no 'Mark has our full support'. One good thing PJ has done is to say that while everyone's position will be reviewed, everyone will be allowed to work in clean air. I'm thinking that 5 weeks firsthand experience while taking the last year into account is sufficient to work out whether MN is the man for the job.

If Mark goes then we can't have a situation where the CEO and the coach cannot be in the same room together when the announcement is made. We can't have the sponsors backdrop removed when the coach is revealing the decision and the coach wearing non club issue clothes. We can't have the coach just stopping short of tipping the bucket on the club (though what MN might reveal might be miles different to what Bailey was about to reveal). If any of that happens then the club has yet again butchered the process and we can start thinking about what other team we might support if we support a team at all. If any of this happens, I guarantee we will be dead in the water. We all have said this before but I can guarantee you dollars to donuts, the AFL WILL not prop us up again. Robert Shaw was right. The Fitzroy comparison was insulting. They died a long, slow death over a period of 20 odd years. They were swimming upstream against a new AFL environment. They tried hard, failed and got barely 1/4 of the support we have had. The MFC will go from being in the best financial position we have been in in decades to being dead in the space of six years the way things are going. It won't be an honorable death. It will be a death similar to the one's shown in those 'dumb ways to die' ads.

[Guest]

Master, I disagree with the Junior part. You don't go from being captain to delisted in the space of a year. Perhaps, upon speaking to Junior like a man, they could have been able to get him to give up the captaincy and get him to move towards retirement on his timetable. He wasn't a silly man Junior. He knew the end was sooner rather than later. He played one year with GWS and then gave it up. It wasn't like he thought he could play till he was 44. The biggest problem with Junior is that he was treated like a commodity. Rather than treat him like a human being and give him some due for hanging around for 3 putrid seasons and they sacked him as soon as some rewards looked like they were going to be reaped.
People s***can Tom Scully for leaving the club and I have an issue with the way he left. It seems that the club can be unprofessional in it's culture, treat people like slabs of meat to be traded, discarded or shot behind the barn when they deem necessary, humiliate people and so on but as soon as a player decides to turn the tables and tell the club that they aren't good enough, we are up in arms. That's the lesson to be learnt here. Treat people with a modicum of respect. It just seems like the MFC doesn't care about their employees.

[Sir Why You Little 36,972]

It will be a death similar to the one's shown in those 'dumb ways to die' ads.

Look up "Saudi drifting accidents" on Youtube.

I think this is what you mean!!

[praha 11,236]

We need to push past the way media spin

You mean the spin the club fed us about meeting financial targets as early as the pre-season comp?

Seriously, if there is smoke there is fire. Please stop blaming the media. It is a deflection.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,024]

Exceptional post RB. I agree 100%. The last thing we want is a quick sacking with no plan in place.

I wonder, would it be worth putting some questions to the playing group before deciding on a coach? Not so much "Who would you like to work with?" but more "How do you think the game should be played?" For example if the playing group as a whole said they wanted to play a fast running attacking game through the middle taking advantage of our quality forwards to kick big scores, you wouldn't really want to pair them with a defensive-minded coach who wanted to lock down the back half and play a lot of stoppages like Sydney did a few years ago. It might just help out in picking a coach who is more compatible with the players.

Of course, this is once again assuming that we actually wind up needing a new coach.

[Guest]

Exceptional post RB. I agree 100%. The last thing we want is a quick sacking with no plan in place.

I wonder, would it be worth putting some questions to the playing group before deciding on a coach? Not so much "Who would you like to work with?" but more "How do you think the game should be played?" For example if the playing group as a whole said they wanted to play a fast running attacking game through the middle taking advantage of our quality forwards to kick big scores, you wouldn't really want to pair them with a defensive-minded coach who wanted to lock down the back half and play a lot of stoppages like Sydney did a few years ago. It might just help out in picking a coach who is more compatible with the players.

Of course, this is once again assuming that we actually wind up needing a new coach.

If you are implying that MN was picked with the purest of intentions, I would think you have missed the mark a bit. I get the feeling that he was bought in to strengthen CS's hand. Schwab was whinging that the boys were too loose and attacking and that made an enemy of Bailey. To validate his own position, he needed to find the anti-Bailey, both tactically and temperamentally. He had a bunch of players who had him in the crossfires for his meddling and to sideline them, he needed to get a coach who would supposedly rid the group of their lazy ways. He got what he wanted on both fronts. The sad thing is that it's been a f***ing disaster.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,024]

If you are implying that MN was picked with the purest of intentions, I would think you have missed the mark a bit. I get the feeling that he was bought in to strengthen CS's hand. Schwab was whinging that the boys were too loose and attacking and that made an enemy of Bailey. To validate his own position, he needed to find the anti-Bailey, both tactically and temperamentally. He had a bunch of players who had him in the crossfires for his meddling and to sideline them, he needed to get a coach who would supposedly rid the group of their lazy ways. He got what he wanted on both fronts. The sad thing is that it's been a f***ing disaster.

I think you may be reading a little bit too much into things there. Do you have any evidence to back it up or is it a classic conspiracy theory?

As for Neeld, I think he was a very highly credentialed and highly rated coach, had served a good apprenticeship under Malthouse who remains one of the premier coaches of our generation, and promised to improve the level of professionalism at all levels of the FD. Nobody can deny that this is an area in which we were falling well behind the pack. Even if he is sacked in the next few weeks he will have raised the bar in this area and for that we need to be grateful.

[Adam The God 30,126]

I love how people equate sacking a man with an 80-point average losing margin and essentially no wins against reputable opposition as a "knee jerk reaction".

A "knee jerk reaction" would have been to sack him at the end of last season, or even after round 1 this year.

Now it's just a formality.

The entire season has had a horrible sense of inevitability about it. Boring. Most MFC people go each weekend expecting us to get beaten comfortably. We do. Every week Neeld is on notice and many people expect him to be sacked come Monday. Since we were thrashed by Port in Round 1, it's been like this. I personally don't think there's much doubt that Neeld will get the arse once Jackson has submitted his report to the powers that be. Wake me up in two or three weeks.

[Guest]

I think you may be reading a little bit too much into things there. Do you have any evidence to back it up or is it a classic conspiracy theory?

As for Neeld, I think he was a very highly credentialed and highly rated coach, had served a good apprenticeship under Malthouse who remains one of the premier coaches of our generation, and promised to improve the level of professionalism at all levels of the FD. Nobody can deny that this is an area in which we were falling well behind the pack. Even if he is sacked in the next few weeks he will have raised the bar in this area and for that we need to be grateful.

It seems a little odd that the blokes who took on CS before 186 (bar Jonesy) were all sidelined upon the new man coming in and the game plan of the old coach who was at loggerheads with him was completely scrapped. Also add in the fact that the selection committee was made up of CS, one of his best mates and a chairman who has been less than forceful in his time in the job, then this starts to stink. One of these might just be a coincidence. When it gets to two or more, then I start to no longer believe in coincidences.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Guest

[Forest Demon 4,681]

The fact that Neeld still has a job hopefully is a sign that they are making an effort to get things right behind the scenes before making any big calls, ensuring they do it right this time around.

[Demons 32 235]

Don't understand how people don't get this.... Neeld staying is counter-productive.

1. Player stability, keeping players is critical for us at this point.

2. Supporter unrest, Neeld is approaching Richmond level of hate from supporters, you can't allow that to happen as we are nowhere near the sizeable fanbase that they are.

3. Sponsors... If players and supporters start jumping off then why would anyone sponsor us?

Neeld simply has to go, the question is the best way to handle it, Queens Birthday is absolutely perfect timing for Neelds removal.

Don't worry about the money paying him out and our net loss, this is the one financial cut we need to make to avoid a never ending downfall as a club.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,024]

Don't understand how people don't get this.... Neeld staying is counter-productive.

1. Player stability, keeping players is critical for us at this point.

2. Supporter unrest, Neeld is approaching Richmond level of hate from supporters, you can't allow that to happen as we are nowhere near the sizeable fanbase that they are.

3. Sponsors... If players and supporters start jumping off then why would anyone sponsor us?

Neeld simply has to go, the question is the best way to handle it, Queens Birthday is absolutely perfect timing for Neelds removal.

Don't worry about the money paying him out and our net loss, this is the one financial cut we need to make to avoid a never ending downfall as a club.

So what happens if we come back from the bye with Neeld still in charge and beat the Saints and the Dogs? Will you still be screaming for blood? Will it still be absolutely imperative that he be sacked? Would those two wins buy him enough credit for the horror run after them when we get hit by Geelong, Sydney, Brisbane and North? Would that give just enough time for the talk to build up again before we hit GWS and GC again? What happens when we beat GC this time?

My point is that using games against three top 4 sides as the final nails in his coffin is just wrong. Wait and see what happens against teams we have a chance of beating. If we end round 14 without another win I'll shut up about this and admit defeat, but I think he deserves the chance to fight for his job. Let's see if he can get the job done against teams we have a reasonable shot at.

[Demons 32 235]

So what happens if we come back from the bye with Neeld still in charge and beat the Saints and the Dogs? Will you still be screaming for blood? Will it still be absolutely imperative that he be sacked? Would those two wins buy him enough credit for the horror run after them when we get hit by Geelong, Sydney, Brisbane and North? Would that give just enough time for the talk to build up again before we hit GWS and GC again? What happens when we beat GC this time?

My point is that using games against three top 4 sides as the final nails in his coffin is just wrong. Wait and see what happens against teams we have a chance of beating. If we end round 14 without another win I'll shut up about this and admit defeat, but I think he deserves the chance to fight for his job. Let's see if he can get the job done against teams we have a reasonable shot at.

Teams we should have a chance at beating like Port, Brisbane and Gold Coast?

What is more important to you, sparing a mans feelings or allowing fans, sponsors and players to jump ship?

[Forest Demon 4,681]

So what happens if we come back from the bye with Neeld still in charge and beat the Saints and the Dogs? Will you still be screaming for blood? Will it still be absolutely imperative that he be sacked? Would those two wins buy him enough credit for the horror run after them when we get hit by Geelong, Sydney, Brisbane and North? Would that give just enough time for the talk to build up again before we hit GWS and GC again? What happens when we beat GC this time?

My point is that using games against three top 4 sides as the final nails in his coffin is just wrong. Wait and see what happens against teams we have a chance of beating. If we end round 14 without another win I'll shut up about this and admit defeat, but I think he deserves the chance to fight for his job. Let's see if he can get the job done against teams we have a reasonable shot at.

He has had that chance, and regardless, isolated results mean little, and it is clear his papers are stamped. The Board are simply ensuring they know exactly what their next will be first.

[DeeSpencer 25,469]

So what happens if we come back from the bye with Neeld still in charge and beat the Saints and the Dogs? Will you still be screaming for blood? Will it still be absolutely imperative that he be sacked? Would those two wins buy him enough credit for the horror run after them when we get hit by Geelong, Sydney, Brisbane and North? Would that give just enough time for the talk to build up again before we hit GWS and GC again? What happens when we beat GC this time?

My point is that using games against three top 4 sides as the final nails in his coffin is just wrong. Wait and see what happens against teams we have a chance of beating. If we end round 14 without another win I'll shut up about this and admit defeat, but I think he deserves the chance to fight for his job. Let's see if he can get the job done against teams we have a reasonable shot at.

We won't get near the saints or dogs on current form. It's not that we've been bad and haven't won but that we've been awful and haven't even got close to any kind of competitive footy. Look at the half time score against Freo and in the inside 50 count.

West Coast aren't a good side at all this year and after sticking with them for a half got destroyed again.

I'm happy to take our time with Neeld but it won't be because we are hoping he'll save himself.

[Slartibartfast 17,190]

I'm not arguing whether he should be the coach or not. I'm actually making the very simple observation - handle it properly and in such a way that minimises any further destruction to this club ...

I agree Ron, we are singing from the same book.

I posted this in the AFL Investigation thread on 17th January:

When I, and I imagine the majority, of people here suggest that people from the club should be replaced I'm not talking about a coup, I'm not talking about public humiliation for those i think should step down. I want to see them treated with respect and dignity, I want a well managed process where one person is replaced by another.

[dees64 104]

The one thing that concerns me the most at the moment is that this club will once again exercise no proper judgement and make yet another epic mistake in relation to a significant decision (ie, in relation to Mark Neeld, and the way in which any termination may be announced and any transition will then be undertaken).

In this regard, some of the suggestions for a replacement coach I'm reading here at the moment are laughable in the extreme. In fact, some of the suggested replacements are just plain stupid. They won't result in ANY positive outcome for this club. At all.

Hence, the club cannot afford to react in a knee jerk manner to this issue, much like most of the media and some of the supporters here tend to. Quite simply, it is far too important an issue.

Now, more than ever, is the time for the club and its supporters to remain calm, allow the club to conduct a measured and intelligent review/assessment of where the list and the football department is at, and, if the review tells us that Mark Neeld needs to be replaced, conduct an AFL endorsed process to identify and select a new coach.

What troubles me however is that won’t happen. Why? Because this club has an unenviable history of exercising poor judgement and emotional intelligence in recent years in relation to delicate issues.

Off the top of my head, some examples of poor judgement/limited EQ include:

1. Neeld comes in, treats the incumbent leadership group with absolutely no respect, publicly embarrasses certain players in the media (eg, Watts), runs down the quality of the list and the previous fitness regime, and marginalises most of the senior players (eg, Green, Moloney, Davey). Poor judgement – we paid for this (apparent player dissatisfaction).

2. The way in which Bailey was dumped was poorly handled by the club. It also resulted in various comments being made which seemingly led to the media driven 'tanking' investigation some three years after the club had been cleared of it by the AFL. Poor judgement – we paid for this (almost $1M in fact).

3. Bailey’s decision to dump Junior a year prematurely, and the way in which the news was delivered to him (just prior to the Port game at the end of 2010), was poorly handled. Poor judgement – we paid for this (no senior leadership).

4. Bailey’s decision to prematurely end the MFC careers of the likes of Robbo, Yze and White (and possibly also Brock McLean in retrospect) – and not to play some of the senior players who were still clearly in our best 22 at the time – revealed poor judgement (see 3 above – and 2 re: Brock McLean).

Point of this being:

If the decision is made to bring in a new head coach prior to the end of the season, it MUST be handled in a way that is sensitive to Mark Neeld and in a way which doesn’t fracture the player group and cost us plenty of money unnecessarily.

Whilst it seems some of the senior players have, or have had, an axe to grind with Neeld, I expect plenty of the junior and recently recruited players have strong loyalty to him. Surely that's obvious.

The club needs to be aware of this and very sensitive to this fact.

So MFC - please don’t stuff this up so as to temporarily appease:

(a) many in the media whose interests aren’t aligned to ours; and

( B) a body of restless supporters who simply want to see something done, even if it ultimately proves to be the wrong thing.

As an aside, I’m not sure Mark Neeld would agree to it, but perhaps there’s some utility in honouring his contract (saving us $$, saving him face and hopefully maintaining player unity) and appointing him the senior assistant midfield coach reporting to a known and respected senior coach of the ilk of a Roos, Matthews, Worsfold, Williams or Eade?

Well said!

• Problem goes deeper into Daniher yrs.......when players like Yze & White ( let Jolly go still playing 2 flags) had currency they should have been traded to revitalise the list
• Darfting since 03 & developing of players very poor & as a result early picks either traded,delisted or on the list as d graders