On 30/04/2013 at 03:08, stuie said:

He was good but not great the weekend just gone, but has shown a fair bit before that. He won't be regular 22 this year, but he did enough early in the year to have been given a shot by now IMO.

No, defensively he didn't and Neeld stated this numerous times. We have enough fresh faces at the moment in my opinion, we can't be running around with an average games of 3.

Edit: If his form warrants it later in the year, bring him in but preferably not at the expense of a much more experienced player.

  On 30/04/2013 at 03:09, Django said:

No, defensively he didn't and Neeld stated this numerous times. We have enough fresh faces at the moment in my opinion, we can't be running around with an average games of 3.

Edit: If his form warrants it later in the year, bring him in but preferably not at the expense of a much more experienced player.

Fair enough. I haven't seen all his games, just a couple and read reports of the others, so happy to defer on that one.

Reading the VFL report it sounds like Dunn and Dawes are definite ins this week.

  On 30/04/2013 at 03:09, Django said:

No, defensively he didn't and Neeld stated this numerous times. We have enough fresh faces at the moment in my opinion, we can't be running around with an average games of 3.

Edit: If his form warrants it later in the year, bring him in but preferably not at the expense of a much more experienced player.

I'm not sure Neeld has stated this at all but it seems to be the conventional wisdom around here based on a conversation by someone with Kent and the old "needs to work on some things" from the assistants.

I would like to see him up for the GC game if he plays a good game at Casey this week against Port. The kid has some serious grunt and the right attitude.

  On 30/04/2013 at 03:18, rjay said:

I'm not sure Neeld has stated this at all but it seems to be the conventional wisdom around here based on a conversation by someone with Kent and the old "needs to work on some things" from the assistants.

I would like to see him up for the GC game if he plays a good game at Casey this week against Port. The kid has some serious grunt and the right attitude.

Neeld did say earlier this season after Kent was playing well in the seconds that he needed to develop the defensive side of his game before he would get a game in the firsts. Not sure if it was in writing or a press conference but I distinctly remember it because I was asking the same questions about whether Kent was going to get a game in the firsts.

Put money on Dawes and Dunn coming in based on this:

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2013-04-30/round-4-vfl-player-review

Lynden Dunn: Lynden played a near perfect game. His 35 disposals, 11 marks and two goals were from half-back. His efficiency by foot was a standout in very difficult windy conditions. More importantly, he pulled up really well.

Chris Dawes: A successful return to football for Chris, he played out his required game time and clearly demonstrated that he has overcome his hamstring injury. He also contributed with two important goals.

In Magner, Dawes, Strauss, Viney

Out Davey, Bail, Pederson, Rodan

Strauss Frawley Garland

Grimes McDonald Terlich

Byrnes Jones M Jones

Watts Howe Sylvia

Gawn Dawes Tapscott

Jamar Trengove McKenzie

Viney, Blease, Magner, Evans

If we are rebuilding a rebuild we need to start to play players that are part of the future not the past Rodan, Pederson and Davey thanks but we need to look forward to 2014 and play players that need to be a part of the plan or players that are young that have to show something. Give them 4-5 weeks in the team, tell them this and if they can't show something bring in the next batch Kent, Fitzpatrick, Toumpas, Davis, MacDonald, Dunn, Couch, Taggart, Tynon, Bail and again give the 4-5 weeks and hopefully we can find a team that really gives us some sort of hope from 2014.

  On 29/04/2013 at 08:24, stuie said:

Just pray it's not the ill-fated "4-6 weeks"

That worked.

8-10 weeks.

Whether you like the guy or not, anyone not putting Dunn in this week has NO right to talk about "culture".

Sure, he's not the future, and I'm not a big fan, but his game on the weekend deserves a call up. That's how you build competition for spots. Remeber that coach we had that just played young guys all the time because of their draft position? Remember how that worked out?

  On 30/04/2013 at 04:00, H_T said:

That worked.

8-10 weeks.

MFC website lists it as 6-8, so at least they're being honest and not saying 4-6 for 2 months...

Have to bring in Nicholson for the defensive leg speed to help against Carlton's mosquito fleet.

Dunn an obvious inclusion.

Too early in the week to feel we're doing anything but moving deck chairs...

Time for Dawes to come in.

We need a target up forward.

Yes he's under done, but we're not paying him $500k a year to play footy in East Cranbourne.

We're going to lose regardless, so what do we have to lose by playing him?

  On 30/04/2013 at 04:37, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Time for Dawes to come in.

We need a target up forward.

Yes he's under done, but we're not paying him $500k a year to play footy in East Cranbourne.

We're going to lose regardless, so what do we have to lose by playing him?

re injuring his hamstring and being out for 4-6... Austin Wonaeamirri could not get his hamstring right, and that amongst other factor ruined him.

No rush, Fitzy can take the place of Clark if needed & Watts should be up forward from here on out.

  On 30/04/2013 at 04:40, Benson said:

re injuring his hamstring and being out for 4-6...

From the VFL report from the weekend:

Chris Dawes: A successful return to football for Chris, he played out his required game time and clearly demonstrated that he has overcome his hamstring injury. He also contributed with two important goals.

Dawes will play this week IMO.

  On 30/04/2013 at 04:42, stuie said:

From the VFL report from the weekend:

Chris Dawes: A successful return to football for Chris, he played out his required game time and clearly demonstrated that he has overcome his hamstring injury. He also contributed with two important goals.

Dawes will play this week IMO.

I read & understand that report.

What I was referring to was the comment "so what do we have to lose by playing him?".. If Mission says he is right for the Carlton game good, but I would not want the Club to rush him back in because Clark is out for 6-8 weeks.

does 6-8 weeks qualify as long term injury list?

if so magner would have to be a chance surely?

  On 30/04/2013 at 04:47, Benson said:

I read & understand that report.

What I was referring to was the comment "so what do we have to lose by playing him?".. If Mission says he is right for the Carlton game good, but I would not want the Club to rush him back in because Clark is out for 6-8 weeks.

I would have thought he'd spend another week at Casey before reading that report, but have a strong feeling he'll play.

They've been pretty conservative with all injuries, especially Dawes, so he may be 100% (albeit possibly not fully match fit from a preseason perspective).

  On 30/04/2013 at 04:49, rolly said:

does 6-8 weeks qualify as long term injury list?

if so magner would have to be a chance surely?

Needs to be 8 weeks minimum. So 50/50 chance IMO.

  On 30/04/2013 at 03:54, drdrake said:

In Magner, Dawes, Strauss, Viney

Out Davey, Bail, Pederson, Rodan

Strauss Frawley Garland

Grimes McDonald Terlich

Byrnes Jones M Jones

Watts Howe Sylvia

Gawn Dawes Tapscott

Jamar Trengove McKenzie

Viney, Blease, Magner, Evans

If we are rebuilding a rebuild we need to start to play players that are part of the future not the past Rodan, Pederson and Davey thanks but we need to look forward to 2014 and play players that need to be a part of the plan or players that are young that have to show something. Give them 4-5 weeks in the team, tell them this and if they can't show something bring in the next batch Kent, Fitzpatrick, Toumpas, Davis, MacDonald, Dunn, Couch, Taggart, Tynon, Bail and again give the 4-5 weeks and hopefully we can find a team that really gives us some sort of hope from 2014.

Please, please, please.....once and for all! Magner is ineligible for selection.

  On 30/04/2013 at 05:22, jumbo returns said:

Please, please, please.....once and for all! Magner is ineligible for selection.

Not necessarily...

You up with current events?

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2013-04-30/clark-to-miss-up-to-two-months

  On 30/04/2013 at 04:47, Benson said:

I read & understand that report.

What I was referring to was the comment "so what do we have to lose by playing him?".. If Mission says he is right for the Carlton game good, but I would not want the Club to rush him back in because Clark is out for 6-8 weeks.

It's not Mission's position to decide whether Dawes is AFL-ready, it's essentially an injury-recovery matter not a fitness one.

His role is not to manage injury, it is, as I understand, to put preparation in place to guard against it.

Yeah, I know he does the Injury Report (due to Medico-Physio liaison).

  On 30/04/2013 at 04:56, stuie said:

Needs to be 8 weeks minimum. So 50/50 chance IMO.

The LTI quote has only to be a nominal 8 weeks, if he's back in six it just means Magner (or whoever) cannot play.

Magner must play.

Lets be honest foot surgery for Clark must mean at least a few weeks with no weight bearing then probably a month before running. 2 weeks full training to get him back to Casey and then we are already at 7 weeks. I'd rather Magner play now and Clark miss an extra week than the other way around.

So third time lucky on the team!

FB: Terlich Sellar Garland

HB: Strauss Frawley Dunn

C: Evans Jones Byrnes

HF: Howe Dawes/Pedo Trengove

FF: Tapscott Gawn Watts

Foll: Jamar Bail Sylvia

Int: Grimes Magner Viney

S: Matt Jones

Out: McDonald, McKenzie, Rodan, Blease, Davey

In: Sellar, Magner, Viney, Dunn, Strauss

+ Dawes swap for Pedersen if fit

Philosophies:

1. McDonald is playing very poorly, time for a change at full back. I've debated this one enough earlier in the thread.

2. Dunn in for Watts' backline spot. Watts forward (luckily)

3. Time for a revolution in the midfield. Viney is back. Magner must be elevated and play (without huge expectations guys). Time for Bail into to tag. Time for Matt Jones to be used as a sub. Time for Byrnes to get more midfield time he's probably in better form than most of our players.

4. Rodan might not be worth the effort. Blease and McKenzie don't look right. Both look below peak fitness.

5. Strauss in to play on one of Garlett/Yarran. Allow Grimes to play in backline or midfield based on need.

6. Davey needs a full game in VFL to prove he can run it out, then I'd have him in the team for good not sub.

7. Dawes to play if declared fit to run out game.

  On 30/04/2013 at 06:04, CHAMP said:

The LTI quote has only to be a nominal 8 weeks, if he's back in six it just means Magner (or whoever) cannot play.

That's not the info I've found.

From when Gawn was placed on the LTI this year:

"The 208cm ruckman will be forced to stay on the LTI list for a minimum of eight weeks"

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-01-29/gawn-cut-down

  On 30/04/2013 at 06:04, CHAMP said:

It's not Mission's position to decide whether Dawes is AFL-ready, it's essentially an injury-recovery matter not a fitness one.

His role is not to manage injury, it is, as I understand, to put preparation in place to guard against it.

Yeah, I know he does the Injury Report (due to Medico-Physio liaison).

I thought they way we structured it anyway was obviously a team decision but as much as the physio's Misson designs how much training load and match day running he is capable of doing. This is whole who runs the sports science side of a club is a very interesting topic.

Ideally you'd have a doctor who is also a physiotherapist who is also an exercise physiologist but I don't know many of them!

I sometimes wonder if North Melbourne and us are two teams with some of the better injury rates but also have seemed to struggle in periods of games and look unfit. It might be that Misson isn't pushing them hard enough. But my first guess is that Misson is getting the guys fit and strong enough but their footy related training is not done at the right intensity. None of the drills I've watched at preseason training this year were done at flat out speed with hard pressure or physical pressure. And Neeld defers to his assistants a lot. I'd like to see him get in their and get the standard and intensity improved. Anyway sorry about the off topic.

Even if they place Clark on long-term injury list, I can't see Magner being activated this week, although he obviously deserves it.

It's hard to see why you would rest Viney and then send him back to Casey to play the week after, so I'd say he's a monte to come back in.

Most of the other hardball getters did enough in Brisbane to warrant another game - Rodan had a great second term and was one of the few that found a way through traffic, Bail always tries and Evans spreads impressively to the wing.

I reckon there are three midfielders under the pump this week.

Jordie - who couldn't get it until the last term - his first game back should save him.

Bleasey - the coach doesn't seem to like him - but it would be strange to see him taken out against a side with pace like Carlton.

M.Jones - works pretty hard but had a pretty ineffectual game last week.

Of the others McDonald and Tappy were pretty ordinary in Brisbane - but the coach loves them so they are safe, albeit Tappy may be the sub this week.

Davey is clearly out of favour and will be sent back to Casey this week, while Pedersen is a straight swap for Dawes - although personally I'd give Dawes another game at Casey so he can come in against Gold Coast when the ball will actually be up his end a bit.

The other in will be Dunn because the coach ditched his plan - hatched last May - to play Jack Watts as a defender and will want another bigger body down back, even though Nicholson should be an inclusion because he has pace and will be needed for Garlett.

For those of you who weren't in Brisbane, I'm sorry to say that Jack W's game in defence was by far the worst effort I have seen from him (yep worse than first two rounds) - he didn't chase hard, he kicked sideways on all bar one of nine occasions in the first half, even Paperone led him to the ball and he was sent forward because there was nowhere else to play him. He was about to be subbed out when he slotted his first goal and the coach changed his mind and chose Blease instead. Once he was sent forward he showed what an exquisite kick he is.

Out: Blease or M.Jones, Davey and Pedersen (if Dawes is rushed in).

In: Viney, Dunn and Dawes

Personally I'd include Nicho (for Garlett) and Gillies (for Rowe/Hampson) and leave out both McDonald and Tapscott to get some form and confidence back at Casey, but that ain't going to happen.

  On 30/04/2013 at 06:24, Deespicable said:

Most of the other hardball getters did enough in Brisbane to warrant another game

Huh? Contested possessions BL 150 - MFC 119. Clearances 40 - 31.

  On 30/04/2013 at 06:24, Deespicable said:

Personally I'd include Nicho (for Garlett) and Gillies

Double huh?!