the single biggest danger of this club, is to Not Fix the Rotten Soft Culture this Club has endured for the best part of 40 Yrs.

I think the team is clearly bleeding, and our immediate need is for First Aid.

Removing Neeld may be now badly needed First Aid. Without it, attempting any other rehabilitation and restoration may be impossible, at least with these players.

team gets flogged.... Neeld...well fmd I didnt see that coming...dont understand how that happened...unable to corrolate training to gamedays !!

Now this isnt my interpretation...this is what happened...its what he uttered. So do I not take him at his own stock ??

When it comes to press conferences after the game, no, you don't take him (or any AFL coach) at his own stock. If you wanted a better insight into what the coaches etc. are really thinking (and doing), log into one of Matt Burgan's Thursday night team selection chats, where the various participants are a lot less circumspect.

The point I was trying to make was about first round picks. If our midfield is the glaring problem, why have we spent 3 first round picks, over the last 2 drafts/trades, on key position forwards (Clark, Dawes and Hogan).

I'm not saying that they won't be good players for us, but if there's no quality or a lack thereof in the midfield, what's the point of the, potentially, A grade forward line?

Maybe a lot of it has just come down to the opportunities presented to us and we haven't been able to get the trades or free agent midfielders we were after. But I find the "It's the midfield" line hard to swallow when half or more of our first round picks have gone on forwards.

I think that if you look at say, Carlton you'll see that they have a great midfield but need KPP's, they would kill for a Cloke and even though the midfield is important, you need someone to kick it too and to kick goals. Midfielders are not as hard to come by as top quality KPF's.

Having said that I'd like Murphy or Judd.

I think the team is clearly bleeding, and our immediate need is for First Aid.

Removing Neeld may be now badly needed First Aid. Without it, attempting any other rehabilitation and restoration may be impossible, at least with these players.

LoL, the only thing bleeding are some supporters, who don't understand what, & why, things have transpired. and what it takes to kill a cancer.

ask Blight @ the crows. & many others who have gone in seen the problem & cut it away, before the much needed repairs take effect.

UH

you seem to be missing much here then.

In simple terms here it is

MN and co rave about the progress and quality of training. Team has stepped up.( by their accord )

team seems able ( according to the club ) to carry out the plan at training and practice...their summation...not mine

team gets flogged.... Neeld...well fmd I didnt see that coming...dont understand how that happened...unable to corrolate training to gamedays !!

Now this isnt my interpretation...this is what happened...its what he uttered. So do I not take him at his own stock ??

Do I think we are up with the big boys ? No way...Am I surprised we are as pathetic as we are ? You bet. We should be better than last year....we're worse , without much to give comfort.

I can only surmise that the clubs benchmarking is way off mark. I also think , at least now suspect Neeld is out of his depth. Game day changes are way WAY too slow.

What I think many are unduly doing is suggesting this game is very complicated. It isnt, not that complicated.

Much is being made of the supposed game plan ( is there one ) as opposed to application of the basic fundamentals of the game. i.e Tackling, more tackling, second efforts ( ever more first might help ) , shepherding , hounding of opponents etc.. This seems lacking in enormous amounts.

Game plan aside the fundamentals are the responsibility of coaching and training.

Why are we inept. Why are we incapable of understandig trajectories of play and massing at these points. Why do Melbourne players handpass to stationary temates already tagged ? Why do players kick to opposing players ?

Why is the coach adamant ( seemingly ) about coercing the current players to run to a plan which they are obviously incapable of instead of developing a plan that they can and growing it ??

Im really starting to wonder whether he has the slightest clue at this level.

There is only ONE litmus.... the scoreboard....its daming. Shows not only cant we win a p!ssup it indicates we are running out of legs prematurely, all this despite our supposed athletic ability being better than past years according to Neeld and Co.

Neeld it would seem is either an unpolished genius, and totally misunderstood or a modern day sporting Abagnale.

Nothing indicates any line of imnprovement.

The degree of thrashing at the hands of Malthouse might show where we are...or more poignantly where Neeld is.

Ive yet to see a team thats switched on this year... you can be underdogs, underlings, vanquished but you can still be mentally at the contest.. We hardly show were at the same game !!

Not sure how to reply to this............. lucky the pies game dosen't exite me much otherwise this would be too hard.....

Clarify your comments - are you saying Neeld, Craig and Co are not qualified for the job?

How long do you expect coaches to make a real impact on a list - please sight recent coaches ie Clarkson, Malthouse, Thompson etc off the top of my head who have done full re-builds not just taken over (with Hawks/Pies and Cats)

With our current list and team fielded on Sunday, at what point do you expect the team to be able to execute on field at a consistent AFL level? - Out of our starting 6 (followers & centremen) I'll do it for you (Trengove, Viney, Jones = 72 games total) & (Macca & N Jones - 199 games combined) when do you expect them to deliver consistent AFL Footy and compete with the best??? I'll let you throw in Sylvia & Byrnes and a few others if you want. Now compare the experience to the CFC who are roughly high middle range in the comp.

All you have done is given me your opinion based on our fisrt 5 rounds - we all know they were poor, that doesn't make your argument right

This is getting long winded as well - Mate you need to state some facts to the argument and not just tell me how disappointed you are.... If you want to base the current performance solely on Neeld so be it, your not inside the club what would you know about the messages the FD give the players - don't expect me to buy your rabble

Edit - could have added Bailey or Hardwick form the Tigers as well, whoever you want - but going off the top of my head

Not being a smart ass to your response, but there is so much more that occurs during that 6-7 days. The point I wanted to make was that AFL is a complicated sport, as are all professional sports. For a posters to say that it is not "complicated" is just ridiculous.

I kept my response simple (and in broad terms) Benson, but the reality is that AFL, like many other similar sports, is simple. Sure, there are details that have to be addressed, but these are normal day to day expected events, the routine preparation and the game are simple. Sorry if this disappoints you, but there are other sports which are much more complicated, try F1 for example.

you are a buffoon. obviously...

Lets attempt to shy away from what was asked of you.

Obviously you didnt read much of what was written before otherwise youd know the answer.

How about the team concentrate on what it can do, on what it can affect rather than some pie in the sky ambitions to a game style it obviously falls flat at attempting.

If you dont have the ball you get the ball. We lose games through a simple happening. The oppoisition has the pill a lot more than we do. And when they do have it they tend to retain it and do more scoring.

I really have no idea what Neeld does all day....I do think developing a winning style isnt part of it though.

I would be only too happy to see this team turn around. To eat words and see Neeld triumphant .

You see I really dont care less who plays for us or who coaches us. I only want a competitve and ideally premiership winning team in red and blue....all else is superfluous really.

What I do care about is the constant dilution of anything resembling a football team in our colours.

What do I want Neeld to do.??

maybe have a total rethink, what hes accomplished to date is SFA !! Anyone who fails to learn is doomed to repeat.

haha c'mon mate are you seriously gong to argue your understanding of the game is superior to the FD

The rest is opinion with little to no fact and nothing wrong with that - we all want a competitive team, that's why we are here complaining/arguing

If it is so simple you should go down to training and take over BB

edit - Sorry i highligted some wrong bits

LoL, the only thing bleeding are some supporters, who don't understand what, & why, things have transpired. and what it takes to kill a cancer.

ask Blight @ the crows. & many others who have gone in seen the problem & cut it away, before the much needed repairs take effect.

yes - the trouble is, there ARE too many stories leaking out about how the players feel about what's going on, or quoting Neeld saying stuff that just wouldn't be helping, etc etc. Is all this a conspiracy? Your denial that the players are bleeding is a bit thin, opposed by such widespread claims otherwise.

I want to know how come the club, which must surely be aware of all the negative talk, just allows market forces to go along as though no harm is being done. Is there nothing that can be done to clear this up? Win, I suppose, but then...

I can't see how a Melbourne supporter can react to anything related to this by saying "LoL".

yes - the trouble is, there ARE too many stories leaking out about how the players feel about what's going on, or quoting Neeld saying stuff that just wouldn't be helping, etc etc. Is all this a conspiracy? Your denial that the players are bleeding is a bit thin, opposed by such widespread claims otherwise.

I want to know how come the club, which must surely be aware of all the negative talk, just allows market forces to go along as though no harm is being done. Is there nothing that can be done to clear this up? Win, I suppose, but then...

I can't see how a Melbourne supporter can react to anything related to this by saying "LoL".

Are you saying the MFC should base their decision making on rumors and innuendo? Sounds like a successful way to run a business to me

There are rumors around all clubs, if this has any legs it will come out. I don't agree with making decisions on real people and their futures on rumor though. That won't cut it in a professional industry.

yes - the trouble is, there ARE too many stories leaking out about how the players feel about what's going on, or quoting Neeld saying stuff that just wouldn't be helping, etc etc. Is all this a conspiracy? Your denial that the players are bleeding is a bit thin, opposed by such widespread claims otherwise.

I want to know how come the club, which must surely be aware of all the negative talk, just allows market forces to go along as though no harm is being done. Is there nothing that can be done to clear this up? Win, I suppose, but then...

I can't see how a Melbourne supporter can react to anything related to this by saying "LoL".

Just want to clarify where the reliable leaks are actually coming from. Demonland?

Please clarify.

yes - the trouble is, there ARE too many stories leaking out about how the players feel about what's going on, or quoting Neeld saying stuff that just wouldn't be helping, etc etc. Is all this a conspiracy? Your denial that the players are bleeding is a bit thin, opposed by such widespread claims otherwise.

I want to know how come the club, which must surely be aware of all the negative talk, just allows market forces to go along as though no harm is being done. Is there nothing that can be done to clear this up? Win, I suppose, but then...

I can't see how a Melbourne supporter can react to anything related to this by saying "LoL".

the players worked very hard up in Brisbane plenty of mistakes but they worked their butts off. I didn't see any players being lazy in the replay. just untidy.

hard coaches always draw negative responses from people around the clubs, always have... many players hated Barassi @ the clubs, but the successful ones who learnt & worked with him, & filled the leadership groups, have nothing but admiration & respect for him..

theres nothing new there, about some people having a whinge... our problems in the past may well have been that not enough players were whinging about how hard the work was.

Have you ever been at a suburban sports club? they are whinging every week about the selectors...

I would say that your wrong about 'what the problems have been', this year.

I would say that there would have been some cursing about mates going to other clubs,,,, & about having inexperienced mates come into defence, to help one another... that would be frustrating to rebuild the back half again.

but thems the breaks, to do a job Properly...

I don't want to rebuild our list, yet again, on top of the same crappy cultural foundations.

Are you saying the MFC should base their decision making on rumors and innuendo? Sounds like a successful way to run a business to me

There are rumors around all clubs, if this has any legs it will come out. I don't agree with making decisions on real people and their futures on rumor though. That won't cut it in a professional industry.

couldn't agree more. But, why isn't MFC seen establishing the facts and acting on them? Does Neeld have basic problems in his people management? If so, better get it sorted one way or the other, immediately. Are there players, or ex-Board members, or whoever else, white-anting the club and its reputation? Well, let's get it out in the open, and clear it up. Or whatever - but what is happening - the rumours/innuendo/etc - is a cancer n its own right.

Sitting on your hands when the house appears to be burning down is not professional either.

couldn't agree more. But, why isn't MFC seen establishing the facts and acting on them? Does Neeld have basic problems in his people management? If so, better get it sorted one way or the other, immediately. Are there players, or ex-Board members, or whoever else, white-anting the club and its reputation? Well, let's get it out in the open, and clear it up. Or whatever - but what is happening - the rumours/innuendo/etc - is a cancer n its own right.

Sitting on your hands when the house appears to be burning down is not professional either.

I don't know for sure but I'd assume that's what the football director and CEO would be responsible for dealing with. I'd hope they were dealing with any rumors and issues that came from them!!

You can't be sure of Neelds relationship with the players without being there, i've heard him say a few times that they (the FD) need to look after the players and keep them confident - I can only assume there are no issues

I guess answering you robbie and for myself I really hope the club has the right people in place to deal with these issues

I am sure like every organisation and workplace not everyone gets on with everyone - but you'd hope if there were any major issues that needed to be addressed they would be. It will come out eventually and people should be held accountable if they don't do their job

couldn't agree more. But, why isn't MFC seen establishing the facts and acting on them? Does Neeld have basic problems in his people management? If so, better get it sorted one way or the other, immediately. Are there players, or ex-Board members, or whoever else, white-anting the club and its reputation? Well, let's get it out in the open, and clear it up. Or whatever - but what is happening - the rumours/innuendo/etc - is a cancer n its own right.

Sitting on your hands when the house appears to be burning down is not professional either.

he said she said theat joe blogs cheated on his sunday lunch. it was the nutritionists fault.

Josh Mahoney is in charge of the players and contracts isn't he??? Football head i think

No mention of him on this thread

When it comes to press conferences after the game, no, you don't take him (or any AFL coach) at his own stock. If you wanted a better insight into what the coaches etc. are really thinking (and doing), log into one of Matt Burgan's Thursday night team selection chats, where the various participants are a lot less circumspect.

They won't take the hard questions though 'bing', I would like to know about the zone defence which Jade tells one of the questioners is all about guarding space. I get that but what I don't get is that space hasn't kicked a goal this year and guarding it is not about standing like a statue or witches hat when your opponent is moving to the space you are not guarding.

These are the things that are frustrating as a supporter and I know 'stuie' has been on about the zone defence for a while now. OK it may be a good tactic but we are obviously not doing it well, you don't have to be a great footballer to do this stuff so what is going wrong?

Forget stats, forget win-loss ratios. This is what it comes down to... If we all dread going to watch our team play and no longer get any enjoyment out of this club, then what is the point of our existence?

Neeld has made us unwatchable, which means he has made us redundant.

We exist in a competitive sports industry that is a fan spectacle. Fundamentally, we don't fit that criteria as a club anymore. How long can we really survive this way?

Forget stats, forget win-loss ratios. This is what it comes down to... If we all dread going to watch our team play and no longer get any enjoyment out of this club, then what is the point of our existence?Neeld has made us unwatchable, which means he has made us redundant.We exist in a competitive sports industry that is a fan spectacle. Fundamentally, we don't fit that criteria as a club anymore. How long can we really survive this way?

That is a brutally true point. Unless this changes soon a change has to be made. I have been a Neeld supporter in the past (probably through blind optimism) but we have to start winning or he has to go, one or the other.

Just want to clarify where the reliable leaks are actually coming from. Demonland?

Please clarify.

Plenty of stories sourced from Demonland, yes - but I live in Tasmania and have heard stuff being talked about too. There are players with connections to someone you know, and things are talked about as though it is common knowledge. Robbie Flower was quoted to me. Do I know he said it? No, I don't, but what I was told fits with other things I have read on Demonland. Neeld was quoted, during a chance encounter on a plane, and the quote sounded very plausible and fitted with known facts. It was pretty disturbing, and I will not repeat it - threats of legal action have been made, in relation to criticism of Neeld. My daughter's friend employed at the club changed his story in a most disturbing and disappointing way this year. I certainly believe my daughter. People with connections to other clubs have heard the same sort of stories about Melbourne - some quoted on Demonland. Should we doubt all these posters too? Maybe everyone is hearing stuff like this - it seems from reading Demonland, and from going to work and hearing people who don't read Demonland, that this is so.

You asked for the source of "reliable leaks", and I can't answer that.

I wouldn't describe these stories as "leaks", but rather as examples of "common knowledge". Where does "common knowledge" come from? I remember "everyone" commenting on the steroid use at West Coast when they were suddenly so much more physical than anyone else. That was "common knowledge" - did someone start the story? A thousand someones maybe, in front of a thousand TV's? Like the story that Melbourne tanked - we can't really blame it on Brock can we?

But your expression "reliable leaks" implies that the information being "leaked" is normally well held in, and an individual or individuals is breaking that pattern. An individual we can identify, and cross-examine. I think trouble at Melbourne is so widely disseminated a story, and with so many particulars, that it is under no wraps at all, so that you would not describe the emergence of the story as a "leak". As with the tanking investigation, nailing who said what and what evidence can be tied down is not really the point: the half mill fine was imposed anyway, because everyone really knew.

Far from suggesting that it's time for chapter and verse on the negative stories, it seems to me the greater need is for evidence to show that these stories are untrue. The narrative looking increasingly unbelievable is that the players bought in long ago, of course they did, and almost all are happy under Neeld, except for being mystified as to where all their good training form and energy went to come game-day...

Of course, if the stories are an urban myth, then whatever is the matter with the club that they are doing nothing to dispel this untruth? How come they allow their employee to be torn by a thousand cuts, and do nothing to defend him? How come there is no response (other than the dutiful and unenthusiastic endorsements from those dependent on him for their jobs)? Can't anyone come out with anything substantial? Because, with the negatives proliferating as they are, the onus in not on the negative story-tellers to justify their position, but rather for the beleagured Neeld camp to somehow show they hold some cards.

Forget stats, forget win-loss ratios. This is what it comes down to... If we all dread going to watch our team play and no longer get any enjoyment out of this club, then what is the point of our existence?

Neeld has made us unwatchable, which means he has made us redundant.

We exist in a competitive sports industry that is a fan spectacle. Fundamentally, we don't fit that criteria as a club anymore. How long can we really survive this way?

So in summary the club should react out of fear and not good decisions?

Neeld has won an award - he won the shizenhouse act of the week on SEN tonight for his comments about Moloney leaving for the "dollars and cents". They replayed his comments in October and his presser last Sunday. Liar of the week was intimited - well more than that actually!

Neeld has won an award - he won the shizenhouse act of the week on SEN tonight for his comments about Moloney leaving for the "dollars and cents". They replayed his comments in October and his presser last Sunday. Liar of the week was intimited - well more than that actually!

No wonder he is still in a job, he fits in with the rest of the MFC board.

Nice try, pick 3 Hogan bonus pick in Barry who may have slid to a rookie level pick. Pick 20 Dawes. So in the top 20 we picked up Toumpas a legit top 10 and I will give you Viney. 2 mids 2 KPF.

Still not to bad but I think you were a bit liberal with the facts.

So we shouldn't have picked Hogan?!

Dead set ...

Forget stats, forget win-loss ratios. This is what it comes down to... If we all dread going to watch our team play and no longer get any enjoyment out of this club, then what is the point of our existence?

Neeld has made us unwatchable, which means he has made us redundant.

We exist in a competitive sports industry that is a fan spectacle. Fundamentally, we don't fit that criteria as a club anymore. How long can we really survive this way?

Unwatchable?!

I have watched as many Demons games as most of you. And one of the best quarters I have EVER watched occurred only two weeks ago.

If Demons supporters weren't so important and rare, I would really up the ante with some of you.

Fair dinkum. Get behind the club. Many of you are like Italy in WW2.

Have a look back at games that Bailey coached on YouTube and you get the feeling that the team were enjoying their football more under him, regardless of the results. Can Neeld get the players to enjoy their footy, regardless of the result or has the game become too focused on the scoreboard?

You 'get the feeling' based on a You Tube clip?!

FMD. The hard facts are really interrogated on this site.