Interesting that Vlad said today that we could learn from PA who changed their coaching group and their president and are now starting to gain some respect. Something we haven't had for some time.

J curve

  On 01/05/2013 at 04:31, Bossdog said:

Well maybe the players need to harden up.......I'm sick of hearing the tail wag the dog......Don't like the coach????....Tough [censored] ...Play well to spite him if you have to.....Or play for him....Just play a hard brand of footy.....Christ, wouldn't want to hurt their little feelings ...Would we?????

SNAP

  On 01/05/2013 at 06:47, PaulRB said:

I'm hoping we are turning the ship and simply need more time for the changes to be obvious on the field. Keen to see

• Clark and Dawes play 6+ games together in forward line.
• Maxy and the Russian play 6+ games together in ruck/forward.
• Continued improvement and time playing together in our 12 mids, I've liked M Jones, Evans, Terlich, Byrnes, Viney, but they are all in first 5 games at club and mid-field synergy takes time.
• the players produce 4 quarters of intensity, getting better each week (from very low start)

These factor all point toward an improving team that simply need time (injury free) for the pieces to come together and start to gel into something that resembles a decent footy team.

I disagree. I'm sorry, Paul. I completely disagree. We've played two weak teams over the past two weeks, hence perhaps the appearance of improvement. IMO we've had five shocking weeks, where we played one hard running, AFL standard quarter. This was against younger and less experienced bodies, on our home turf.

I'm not in favour of sacking Neeld mid-season but any more than two 70-plus-point belting between now at Queen's Birthday and I think they should move him on.

I understand that it won't achieve anything but you need to move on when things aren't working. I don't believe this team is 148-points below Essendon, nor 100 points below the Eagles...the way Port is playing, maybe 70 points.

If the players come out and say off-field issues aren't compromising their capacity to play, then as stakeholders we should hold on-field contributors accountable. The coach holds players accountable at the selection table: the club holds the coach accountable when things go sour. That's how it works.

1997, 2008, 2009 were bad years. But I wasn't around in the '70s, and this team is without a doubt the worst I've seen.

He has initiated many of the changes and I understand he is trying to build his own team in the process, and I trust his vision is ambitious and dressed in hopes of success and longevity.

But you have to set the line somewhere. You have to say that, no, these sorts of losses aren't good enough, no matter where you think individual players are at, and where you think the team -- and club -- are at collectively.

I fail to see how he can't coach this current team to at least get close to teams that aren't called GC or GWS. It doesn't make sense to me.

  On 01/05/2013 at 07:09, AdamFarr said:

I disagree. I'm sorry, Paul. I completely disagree. We've played two weak teams over the past two weeks, hence perhaps the appearance of improvement. IMO we've had five shocking weeks, where we played one hard running, AFL standard quarter. This was against younger and less experienced bodies, on our home turf.

You may be right. It's had to get a full picture of the past 5 games given another two of the teams we've played are sitting 1 and 2 on the ladder undefeated...

Hence, needing more time to gauge if the team is improving, stagnant or declining.

  On 01/05/2013 at 06:52, RobbieF said:

Howe has all the attributes to be as good as Nathan Fyfe, he could be a super player for us but at the moment he's playing below his capacity; if he had a few other good players around him the sky's the limit.

Evans could also be a top player but watch us play him out of position and destroy him. WTF have we done to Trenners; he was looking great in his first year but is just plodding along now. Grimes used to be one of the most reliable marks in the side, not any more. Tapscott has got plebty of ability but he just doesn't seem to have any confidence; in fact which of our players have.

Tommy Mc will be a good footballer, I just hope it's with us.

We all know those that are good and we all know they are playing like they aren't.

I dont understand confidence issues in footy.

I think the club should hire two "Confidence and Moral officers/runners" - one to play the good cop and the other to be the bad/passive aggressive cop.

Would be better if we could find someone with split personalities so save costs and raise the confusion factor.

Also it should be compulsory for the good cop to sound like your mother, and the bad cop to have at least one insulting pun or metaphor.

Classic example could be to get Watts to print harder: "(Bad cop) Jack you lanky beanstalk, (good cop) you were the quickest in the 20 meter sprint when you were drafted, (bad cop) and now look at you, Pickett ate all the pies and he could run faster than this - pick it up princess!"

Confidence boost - check

Reference to one of the greatest and funniest MFC players to watch, Byron Pickett - check

More examples by good old Patches O'Houlighan:

  On 01/05/2013 at 06:52, RobbieF said:

Howe has all the attributes to be as good as Nathan Fyfe, he could be a super player for us but at the moment he's playing below his capacity; if he had a few other good players around him the sky's the limit.

Evans could also be a top player but watch us play him out of position and destroy him. WTF have we done to Trenners; he was looking great in his first year but is just plodding along now. Grimes used to be one of the most reliable marks in the side, not any more. Tapscott has got plebty of ability but he just doesn't seem to have any confidence; in fact which of our players have.

Tommy Mc will be a good footballer, I just hope it's with us.

We all know those that are good and we all know they are playing like they aren't.

Apart from Clark and the as yet unseen Dawes, we don't have a forward of any description who can or could kick 35 - 55 goals a year. Howe could easily fit the bill but he's often been used as far afield as the half back line. A total waste of his marking and possible goal kicking talents. By playing Jeremy deep forward or used as a decoy he's quite capable of picking up 8 - 10 kicks a game and averaging 2 or 3 goals a game. That's about 50 goals a year and that's a good return. Seems a no-brainer to me.

It's time Watts was left in the forward line as well. He's spent enough time as a loose man in the backline and it isn't working anyway. With Clark out it gives Jack the chance to establish himself as a forward. These sort of decisions need to be persevered with as well. Players need to be played in their rightful positions and given enough time to make a go of it. We desperately need another ball winner out of the middle and we've got one - Magner. Not a great player but he knows how to win a contested possession. Another no-brainer.

Agree with the rest of your post.

  On 01/05/2013 at 07:13, Cudi_420 said:

I'm not in favour of sacking Neeld mid-season but any more than two 70-plus-point belting between now at Queen's Birthday and I think they should move him on.

I understand that it won't achieve anything but you need to move on when things aren't working. I don't believe this team is 148-points below Essendon, nor 100 points below the Eagles...the way Port is playing, maybe 70 points.

If the players come out and say off-field issues aren't compromising their capacity to play, then as stakeholders we should hold on-field contributors accountable. The coach holds players accountable at the selection table: the club holds the coach accountable when things go sour. That's how it works.

1997, 2008, 2009 were bad years. But I wasn't around in the '70s, and this team is without a doubt the worst I've seen.

He has initiated many of the changes and I understand he is trying to build his own team in the process, and I trust his vision is ambitious and dressed in hopes of success and longevity.

But you have to set the line somewhere. You have to say that, no, these sorts of losses aren't good enough, no matter where you think individual players are at, and where you think the team -- and club -- are at collectively.

I fail to see how he can't coach this current team to at least get close to teams that aren't called GC or GWS. It doesn't make sense to me.

I understand what you are saying 'Cudi' and I think you have picked the problem. A new coach has a choice - 'crash or crash through' is the political or business equivalent. Neeld made the wrong choice and now must face the consequence. He has to go and fast - MFC will only go further backwards if he stays. I know it's not an ideal situation, but sometimes tough decisions have to be made and now is one of those situations for MFC, as many have said in so many posts, particularly in the last few days.

  On 01/05/2013 at 04:53, Fifty-5 said:

AFL coaching is a very tough job, you have deliver against capable opposition on a fixed day - you can't delay the date and you can't really deliver less product.

I'm reminded that throughout 2007-8 when I regularly visited a Collingwood board that posters universally hated their coach and referred to him and his game plan as "Mick Madhouse" - eventually the wheel turned. I was definitely willing to cut Neeld plenty of slack.

But the problem for me is a disastrous start to the season coupled with "we didn't see that coming". While you can't really deliver less there are ways that you can mitigate the damage. In weeks 1 and 2 Neeld showed absolutely no grasp of what was happening or how to mitigate the damage. Since then we played against ordinary opposition - WC are really struggling and smashed us by 100points, Gold Coast showed where GWS are at and beat them by more than we did away from home and Brisbane played like a basket case until they played us.

We need a solid lead time to secure a new coach - September is not the time to start looking. Also important list management decisions are taken in the next few months.

Absolutely on the ball.

The longer we fester with what we have the harder it will talk to address the problem.

  On 01/05/2013 at 05:07, Bossdog said:

And replaced by who????....or is that whom????...This new great coach had better be very very good.....

We need to work on that replacement immediately. And we cant do that while the sub standard incumbent is in place.

And while i wish the replacement to be a good coach he would not have to do much to be better than what Neeld has delivered.

  On 01/05/2013 at 05:23, sue said:

I cannot see how anyone on this forum who is not closely connected to the club would have any idea of Neeld's relationship with the players. Examining the entrails of post-match press conferences and player's performance is just so much guesswork. I'm constantly amazed by the bold assertions people make.

Lack of skills compounded by lack of confidence seems far more likely to be the problem than whether player like or respect the coach.

You can observe sue. Weeks 1 and 2 was terrible after Neeld laid expectations that we would be competitive and said we were AFL standard in our pre season. We were terrible on the field and post the games the players are talking about lack of "buy in" . Its a pathetic situation that points to a number of issues but highlights one of the obvious the coach does not have the players and the players dont play for the coach.

Neeld has severed relationships badly with players who have left (eg Moloney, Green) and has failed to get the best out of players at his disposal. Only N Jones and Howe have improved. Many have gone backwards.

He needs to go immediately.

  On 01/05/2013 at 08:07, Rhino Richards said:

We need to work on that replacement immediately. And we cant do that while the sub standard incumbent is in place.

And while i wish the replacement to be a good coach he would not have to do much to be better than what Neeld has delivered.

You can observe sue. Weeks 1 and 2 was terrible after Neeld laid expectations that we would be competitive and said we were AFL standard in our pre season. We were terrible on the field and post the games the players are talking about lack of "buy in" . Its a pathetic situation that points to a number of issues but highlights one of the obvious the coach does not have the players and the players dont play for the coach.

Neeld has severed relationships badly with players who have left (eg Moloney, Green) and has failed to get the best out of players at his disposal. Only N Jones and Howe have improved. Many have gone backwards.

He needs to go immediately.

Everybody's going around in circles.

Even if the players don't play for the coach, what about their altruism as professionals?

Would a possible suitor question their commitment? Their lack of resilience? Their inability to form relationships?

Moloney and Green were part of a soft underbelly culture.

I'm glad that you've acknowledged that Howe and Jones have improved....aren't they part of a new culture?

  On 01/05/2013 at 08:07, Rhino Richards said:

We need to work on that replacement immediately. And we cant do that while the sub standard incumbent is in place.

And while i wish the replacement to be a good coach he would not have to do much to be better than what Neeld has delivered.

You can observe sue. Weeks 1 and 2 was terrible after Neeld laid expectations that we would be competitive and said we were AFL standard in our pre season. We were terrible on the field and post the games the players are talking about lack of "buy in" . Its a pathetic situation that points to a number of issues but highlights one of the obvious the coach does not have the players and the players dont play for the coach.

Neeld has severed relationships badly with players who have left (eg Moloney, Green) and has failed to get the best out of players at his disposal. Only N Jones and Howe have improved. Many have gone backwards.

He needs to go immediately.

Gee I'll ask you this, ok new coach next week, how many wins this season with the same players before you label him/her pathetic

Does he need relationships with players that have left?

And the issues are?, think you have named one, you said issues

Thought the care and attention to get players like Evans Gawn Taggert and Fitzpatrick back playing footy would count for something or are they just spuds?

Who are we going to get as a replacement, that we can sensibly afford? After paying out Neeld's and Craig's contract, coz if you think Craig would stay you have misread him, then there are the assistants and Misson. A new coach always wants his own team, clean sweep, or are you going to tell him, sorry, just you, but here are the staff hired by the guy we just shafted

  On 01/05/2013 at 07:02, angrydee said:

Interesting that Vlad said today that we could learn from PA who changed their coaching group and their president and are now starting to gain some respect. Something we haven't had for some time.

When did he say that? is it somewhere on the net we can see?

  On 01/05/2013 at 10:19, Satyriconhome said:

Who are we going to get as a replacement, that we can sensibly afford? After paying out Neeld's and Craig's contract, coz if you think Craig would stay you have misread him, then there are the assistants and Misson. A new coach always wants his own team, clean sweep, or are you going to tell him, sorry, just you, but here are the staff hired by the guy we just shafted

If you were to get Roos, I don't think he'd have a problem with his former colleague Dave Misson.

  On 01/05/2013 at 10:06, jumbo returns said:

I'm glad that you've acknowledged that Howe and Jones have improved....aren't they part of a new culture?

Gee, so two players out of 42 have moved forward, the rest backwards or downwards. We have a young group of high draft picks, who should all be on their way up. If you think 2 out of 42 (I actually count 3) you are setting the bar so low its embarressing.

Some people can coach some people can't. Neeld cant.

  On 01/05/2013 at 10:21, Satyriconhome said:

When did he say that? is it somewhere on the net we can see?

It's on the AFL website today!

  On 01/05/2013 at 10:19, Satyriconhome said:

Who are we going to get as a replacement, that we can sensibly afford? After paying out Neeld's and Craig's contract, coz if you think Craig would stay you have misread him, then there are the assistants and Misson. A new coach always wants his own team, clean sweep, or are you going to tell him, sorry, just you, but here are the staff hired by the guy we just shafted

First, get the replacement, the rest will fall in or out of place!

  On 01/05/2013 at 10:22, AdamFarr said:

If you were to get Roos, I don't think he'd have a problem with his former colleague Dave Misson.

So Roos works for charity does he? I was waiting for that name, parted on good terms with Misson, you absolutely sure

  On 01/05/2013 at 10:28, Hardnut said:

First, get the replacement, the rest will fall in or out of place!

You have no idea how it works then, Malthouse kept everybody at Carlton? etc etc...you have to pay out contracts, nobody walks

  On 01/05/2013 at 10:06, jumbo returns said:

Everybody's going around in circles.

Even if the players don't play for the coach, what about their altruism as professionals?

Would a possible suitor question their commitment? Their lack of resilience? Their inability to form relationships?

Moloney and Green were part of a soft underbelly culture.

I'm glad that you've acknowledged that Howe and Jones have improved....aren't they part of a new culture?

No. Any suitor would have an unspoken understanding that Neeld couldn't coach these guys.

Moloney, Rivers, Bennell, Petterd, Gysberts, even Morton, all snapped up by other teams, wonder why?

Moloney is currently the number 1 mid for Brisbane under hard man Michael Voss. Brad Green was quickly snapped up as an assistant for hard man Mick Malthouse.

Do you think names like Voss and Malthouse understand footy culture? More than a few premierships between them...

  On 01/05/2013 at 05:21, Akum said:

Interesting. In the past couple of weeks I've come across, on separate occasions, 2 people involved with Western Jets. Neeld's current situation is no surprise to them whatsoever.

Akum, I understand your situation, but is there any way you can add some further information to this post?

  On 01/05/2013 at 10:19, Satyriconhome said:

Who are we going to get as a replacement, that we can sensibly afford? After paying out Neeld's and Craig's contract, coz if you think Craig would stay you have misread him, then there are the assistants and Misson. A new coach always wants his own team, clean sweep, or are you going to tell him, sorry, just you, but here are the staff hired by the guy we just shafted

Royal, Mahoney, Viney, just a few that were there pre-Neeld.

  On 01/05/2013 at 10:26, Hardnut said:

It's on the AFL website today!

You mean you interpreted what you thought he said in the report, this is Vlad in SA, he would say David Koch is the greatest media personality in the world if he thought it would ingratiate him with Port, he said Koch had done a good job